flyerfmaz

I fly frequently for business (several times a month) and prefer WN (I'm A-list, CP, and on the way to A-preferred). WN fares have begun to reach the point that my employer is questioning the value of Southwest -- for example, I have to fly to MSP next week and the best available fare (for a reasonable arrival time) is about $1100 round trip (no wanna get away fares available). I've been ordered to cancel the WN flight and switch to AA/USAir for this trip, where there are plenty of fares around $400 round trip. I'm so used to flying WN that I didn't even bother to check other airlines. Is WN on the way to becoming so expensive that even us loyal business travelers will be forced to other carriers? I've noticed a steady creep in WN fares and have been able to remain loyal to WN despite the generally higher prices (there's usually enough slop in company project costs to deal with it). Now I'm seeing dramatic differences...

Often1

Supply and demand. WN is no different than any other business. If you can find a $400 fare to meet your needs, why on earth would you pay $1,100. (And no UG, seat assignment)

texashoser

This. If the WN flights are full for those flights to MSP, then they are going to charge a premium (ie, no WGA fares) for those few remaining seats.

I was looking at a possible trip to MSP out of AUS. About 10 days out, AA had fares as low as $366 RT while WN was something like $1,100. Four days out, AA still had fares for something like $450. Had I gone, I would have flown AA. Although I have the points, I wasn't going to burn $1,100 worth of points at the AT multiplier.

On the other hand, back in March, I flew to RT SEA with a WGA points-equivalent of $250. WN was cheaper or as cheap as anyone else.

flyerfmaz

Well, of course you're right. Supply and demand. Generally, though, I try to remain loyal to one airline so I can more easily grow and take advantage of the FF points. With fares like that, WN is killing me.

diver858

This is one of the primary reasons why WN only sells tickets on their own website. Posting fares on sites like Kayak and Orbitz will show Koolaid drinkers that WN is no longer a low fare carrier, encourage them to consider alternatives.

lougord99

I love that when someone disagrees with you, they are Koolaid Drinkers.

Your premise is clearly false, since WN has always had this policy. I think you would agree that WN at one time was clearly a low fare airline. When that was the case, WN had this same policy.

toomanybooks

My family flies WN for two reasons:

1. Companion Pass
2. No charge to cancel/change/rebook/refare

They could be on every OTA in the world and we would still fly them.

Has nothing to do with being brainwashed, and I bet there are a lot of people like me. Not everyone in the world has identical needs, something a lot of FTers don't understand.

rtalk25

Southwest also has a small presence in MSP which suppresses supply of it's seats into that market.

It doesn't fly BWI-MSP year round for example, but instead the entire east coast must change planes in MDW to reach MSP. Ok, maybe now some will fly via ATL.

But, it's ridiculous that it's not competing with Delta on that route, even though it has a BWI hub, but letting Delta have the entire cake and eat it too on WAS-MSP. Even Frontier was gutsy enough to offer MSP-TTN (not daily but atleast 4x weekly) a long route to an east coast focus that's not even a hub.

Did you find your lower fare through US or through AA? Even though the airlines are merging, pricing is different between the two. US is typically cheaper.

Outside of PHL and CLT, and areas in the east coast, US is somewhat a second tier airline and offers low fares for connection flights for some city pairs. It's website has a "Search Vacations" button more central than the "Search Flights" button. The DOJ initially didn't want the two carriers to merge because US was offering low faring with connections. Once US and AA are fully merged and there is no usairways.com booking site, I think AA's fares will be a lot higher.

flyerfmaz

Either AA or US shows the $400 fare (I'm based out of Tucson, so it's TUS-MSP). I fly WN all the time and travel all over the country, several times a month. I've been watching WN fares overall creep up over the past year and the outrageous TUS-MSP fare is downright impossible for me to justify to the bean counters at work.

Overall, WN remains my favorite airline but some cracks in my allegiance are starting to come out. In addition to higher fares, I'm starting to get annoyed with frequent delayed flights, the blue sleeve cheaters and their entourage of companions, and a noticeable drop in customer service. WN left my wife stranded on a recent trip to IAD for two days with no compensation. Seriously -- they couldn't/wouldn't book her on a return flight home for TWO days. And now I'm starting to question the viability and fairness of the open seating system. Almost everywhere I go on WN requires a connection, and when they run late it doesn't matter if my fare is Business Select - I'm stuck with a middle seat by the bathroom if they board before I can get to the gate.

I've thrown everything I have at WN -- even use the Rapid Rewards Visa for every purchase in the household.

InkUnderNails

I checked BNA-MSP-BNA for next week out Monday and return Friday and found best case WN at $425 RT and the others with a change at $383. I check a bag, so basically a wash. Some selections on WN hit $750 RT. NS on DL was almost $800. It seems WGA at $800 is set to be competitive with the DL NS. I have checked this route before as MSP is a common destination for me. I have seen the DL NS go above $1000 while the AT on WN sticks at a $800.

I also noticed the DEN routing. MSP-DEN-BNA. Yeah, that makes sense. Well, at least it was the cheapest of the Friday flights, $212 OW. The NS to DEN is still at $141. Not too bad.

ftnoob

I'm no fan of what has been going on with WN for the past decade or more, but TUS-MSP "next week" currently can be booked on WN for $408 (DEP 5/2 @ 2:45 PM; RET 6/5 @ 6:00 AM).

The necessity of being flexible with travel plans to secure attractive fares isn't particularly new. I'm curious as to how the OP's requirements resulted in finding no WN fare below $1100.

Here's an example that really shows how badly out of whack WN pricing can be: Kayak currently finds AUS-DCA RT flights for this weekend (DEP 5/30, RET 6/1) starting at $517 (AA) and $528 (DL). WN wants $573 for just the outbound on 5/30, $969 for the RT. Sure, WN has the only non-stop on the route, but their connecting flights are all more expensive (due to the additional taxes and fees).

To make it even more bizarre, WN wants $396 for the DCA-AUS flight on 6/2, but offers the DCA-SAN direct via AUS route (on the same plane) for $177...while pricing all the other flight options that day much higher!

flyerfmaz

The difference is that I'm traveling for business. I have to depart Tucson on 6/3, arrive at a reasonable time, and return on 6/6 following a (mostly) full day of work. That means I have to arrive earlier in the day and depart later in the day. The flights that line up with that only have Anytime fares.

As a business traveler, I'm seeing this sort of gaming of the system more and more with WN. It's troubling, and driving the bean counters at my company nuts. WN can only get away with this for so long before I'm ordered to use other airlines. I have a reservation on WN but the cost is so high that I've now been ordered to cancel and switch to AA or US.

WN has been known to suddenly open up WGA fares, so if I'm lucky I'll wake up tomorrow with lower fares and I can rebook. But based on previous experience I'm not holding my breath over that.

expert7700

the other carriers may have overpriced their routes initially then are having to drop them a bit close-in.

WN may be pricing the fares higher when it is down to the last few seats on certain flight #s. Some of the highest WN fares that I see are often when they are overselling/overbooking passengers.

Also WN has many pricing analysts on staff who decide when to pull WGA fares. that could be ten days out, a week out, or for some cities/routes the WGA fares are available even the day of travel.

If you try to cherry-pick flight times, AND book travel only a week out, WN will often not be the lowest cost possible carrier. But that's where fully refundable anytime fares and no bag fees come into play. Also, you mentioned CP and A+. Say your spouse or companion was going to fly with you.. That $1100 vs $400 argument now becomes $1100 vs $800 not including checked bags or change fees. Still significant, but less or virtually zero change when you factor in those items plus the ~20% in points earned.


Say your work trip needs to change. On a legacy you are out that money, or out at least $150 each way. I'm sure that few corporate travel depts like eating airfares for trips not ever flown.

djp98374

This has long been part of southwest pricing scheme .... About 2 weeks before the fares usually go up, then about 7-10 days before they shut down or seriously spike the wanna get away fares.

Southwest is the fare driver 90% of the time. But they arent for shorter window business travel.

When I book I do compare southwest fares and then check kayak for fares to see which is cheaper/more convenient..with that I take into account check bag fees.

Comparing prior yeares fares is hard to do because of them now showing fare with taxes included for final price when you book. Now they also don't have the fuel hedge like they did before.

johnslloyd

I was a long-time (many years) WN proponent, advocate, A+, CP, and generally a high-value WN customer. No longer. I initially moved my travel from WN to Delta, and have now moved almost all to USAir. I still check WN pricing, but they are almost never the low on my routes. I am very happy with USAir. They are on-time, I consistently get FC upgrades, and I generally have no complaints at all with them.

... all bets are off, however, when the US-AA merger is fully implemented.

I still have a quarter-million RR points I am gradually burning off, but I have flown exactly one (1) paid WN segment this year.

Give HERB his old job back!