toomanybooks

The Noob is back!

rsteinmetz70112

Looking at Southwest pricing I do see a lot of gaming going on from the Company. One of the features I used to like about Southwest was predictability. That now seems out the window.

Southwest seems to have adopted a strategy of pricing tickets based on ultimate demand. That is if a flight is likely to completely sell out, then very few or no low cost seats are made available. As other carriers raise their prices Southwest skims off some high dollar fares. That is a valid strategy, but it does not lead to customer loyalty.

I have been checking on some holiday travel and almost without exception Southwest is at least $100 per trip higher than Delta or AA. On the flights where Southwest is lower it is rarely lower than by more than $30-40 even allowing for a bag fee. I have also experienced that some routes I fly the average fare I paid has increased by 60-70 % over the last two years, largely due to decreased promotional fares.

flyerfmaz

You may have hit the nail on the head.

I've been traveling for work purposes for a long, long time and like to be loyal to one airline. Years ago when I was traveling mostly abroad I focused on United. In return, United treated me pretty well -- frequent free upgrades, better seat availability, lounge membership, etc. Now that my travel is mostly domestic, I've ended up focusing on Southwest and I'm not feeling anything coming from Southwest to maintain my loyalty as a frequent business traveler. The most serious problems for business travel have become high airfares, flight delays, and declining customer service.

Of course, this has to be kept in perspective. Somehow, Southwest's business model seems to be working. Almost every flight is filled to maximum capacity, and many are oversold. Asking them to consider assigned seating and treating business travelers a little better is essentially asking them to fix what ain't broke. I may end up having to switch my loyalty but am fighting the urge to do so.

nsx

My guess: The other guys are banking on a significant fraction of these customers to change their tickets and incur a $150 fee. Those high change fees go hand in hand with lower prices far in advance of the travel date.

rsteinmetz70112

That's certainly part of it. Another part is that the legacies often have significantly more capacity on a given route and need to fill more seats. One of my frequent routes ATL-MSY only 2 carriers fly that non-stop. Southwest has 4 non-stops and Delta has 10 (with no regional jets).

Based on my travel habits, I rarely change a flight and the few times I do the cheaper fares would more than offset the fees. However since most changes likely occur close to the travel date Southwest is in effect charging a fee.

formeraa

But if WN's fares were nearly 3 times the other airlines' fares, you might reconsider...as the OP was forced to do.

toomanybooks

Would not pay 3x. Maybe 1.2x. Also would never buy BS or AT, but I don't travel short-notice much.

Avios have been quite useful ex-Chicago.

Doc Savage

I fly WN so I know this person won't be my FA:

rsteinmetz70112

I'm looking at holiday travel 7 months out. Should Southwest not be pacing their fares with teh other carriers?

nsx

They never have before. Why start now?

rsteinmetz70112

Thats not been my experiance.

In past years their fares were competative, even cheap. This year it seems they are increaseing fares massively over previosu years.

Fuel costs cannot account for the difference.
Labor costs are frozen to the consternation of their employees.

texashoser

I don't know about NSX's use of 'never,' but the last several years have been as he's described. Fares for summer and holiday travel have often been quite high, usually higher than the competition, when booked months in advance. It's not until the flights get closer that fares come down. Of course, for this summer, nothing has come down...

flyerfmaz

+1 - agreed. A year ago I could book WN, even a couple of weeks out, and the fare would fit in with most project budgets. Yesterday was the first time that a manager at my company ordered me to use a different airline. Going forward, I'll probably have to compare AA/US with WN before making a booking decision with the company travel agent. WN appears to be gradually pricing themselves out of the market - at least for business travel.

texashoser

Do you mind sharing some examples? Ie, fares for some routes you flew last year compared to right now?

flyerfmaz

When I find time I'll try to go back through some expense reports and produce numbers. Generally speaking, however, the higher costs are due to increased inavailability of WGA fares. Considering WN's open seating and the fact that I'm A-list, there's virtually no value (other than more points) to the higher fare categories above WGA. I travel so often that a non-refundable WGA fare isn't a huge problem because should something change (which rarely happens) those funds can be used against the next reservation.

Honestly, I don't think that WN cares one red rip about doing anything substantial to keep frequent business travelers loyal. One thing they could do, which would help to solve this dilemma, is to extend WGA fares a little longer to A-listers so they won't be forced to find another airline. My company and their clients aren't cheap by any means, but when the fares start nearing or exceeding $1000 round trip the project managers start losing their heads.