uxb

I thought that the only way you could top off your account was to pay, which meant $50,- since it is $25/1000 pts (and 1200 pts = 1 cr).

I understand what you are saying, but just because you call a fare "Business" doesn't mean it has all the trappings of business. Surely, you'd concede that WN's BS product is inferior to ALL of its rivals. Given that, and the changes to the system, where is the incentive to remain a loyal business customer on WN?

I just don't see it.

nsx

More proof that FTers are not typical customers!

Weakness from Southwest's point of view? In RR 2.0, I would NEVER redeem for a short-notice flight. At the A+ level I would get 1/3 of my Anytime fare back as an effective rebate toward future WGA trips. That's a much better deal than redeeming points at 40% less value than normal.

toomanybooks

Maybe so. But I imagine they make good money from the CC and a lot of the time my son and I are on planes with empty seats, so that doesn't cost them much. And I steer a lot of people to WN, not least by posting here.

If an WN earnings mall comes in, I anticipate hitting that hard, and I presume they will make money there.

I doubt WN will make it in this economy focusing on BS-A-Listers and people flying once a year to see Grandma. The blatant effort to skew things to reward people paying 4x for a seat seems odd to me. Many of the people they are trying to attract wouldn't consider WN anyway, because they want their F and Europe, which aren't that big a deal to me.

But we shall see.

nsx

I figure Southwest makes about 1% of your credit card spending. Nearly all of that 1% is profit, but it's still only $500 for $50k of spending.

People like you and me could leave without any damage to Southwest's bottom line, and they know it.

toomanybooks

Plus whatever they got selling 1.0 credits to Hilton, Budget, etc.

And now with "the rest this calendar year and all of next year" on the CP, it should be even EASIER for me to get it (or at least cheaper in spend terms, per year). I might have to front-load some serious spend in the first few months of the year, though, if they do away with SPG, etc. transfers.

How does that change make sense if they are losing money on me?

mile ho

I know. I don't see it either. If you'd seen my previous posts on this thread, you'd know I think trying to push their BS fares through 2.0 is going to fail. I wasn't making a case for their BS product at all, just saying that 2.0 is all about the BS fare and that's why the all new 2.0 is going to be a net loser. You can go back a few posts (#953) and I pretty much lay out what I think about it there.

uxb

I think I agreed w/ RR 2 being a "net-loser," but I think my reasons were slightly different. Doesn't matter. My "luv" affair w/ WN is over. :-P

jrpaguia

I cringed when I read that...but then I remembered as nsx later mentioned, not all WN fliers are FT'ers.

emeraldtx

Nope. You can top off an award later by converting 1200 pts. to 1 credit. Those can be points earned through flying, partners, etc.

kennycrudup

Ya know?! I'm sitting on 4 rewards (and am only using the one expiring in April 'cause I don't want to pay to have it reissued) 'cause there's nowhere I want to go in the ConUS right now, but I'll be damned if I use any of 'em to run up the CA coast!

(... of course, the flip-side of this is my Mother in FLL will probably see a lot of me in the upcoming year )

However, NSX' point about how "not everyone is an FTer" is probably highly relevant to this thread, as I suspect that the guy who spends an SA to go ~400mi is likely way more typical than we think- it's a "free ticket"- and probably more-relevant to the model for RR2.0 .

mile ho

If WN is able as you say to gather 1% off the top there is also this to consider:
For every 19.2k in spend (less if it's with WN or its partners) 320.00 in fare is generated. WN would of course be paid by Chase for the points they provide to the customer. While Chase probably gets a decent discount I would still venture to say that WN receives another 275.00 or so in revenue in exchange for the 320 in fare provided the customer. Chase is responsible in effect for selling thousands and thousands of $320 blocks of WN product. The cash amount ($275) WN receives is just my guess. Others more in the know could elaborate.

But I do believe most FFers underestimate the amount of revenue received by the airlines as a result of our activity with their partners. We have always paid for our 'free' tickets, CPs and everything else we get from the airlines. Sometimes it was just through a middleman, aka 'our partners'.

JSteele

At the risk of being flamed because I haven't read all of the nearly 1,000 posts in the RR2.0 thread, here it goes:

1. Can an RR 1.0 award be used for a one way trip for 2 pax?

2. Will it be possible to convert an RR1.0 award to RR2.0 credits which can be more valuable for advance purchase, short haul.

3. Will we be able to use RR2.0 points as partial payment of a new ticket?

nsx

The bank does not pay WN 1% of the 19.2k and then pay WN another $320 for the RR credits/points deposited in your account. It's just the 1%, which is my guess since the actual numbers are proprietary.

mritty

Yes.

No.

Sort of. You will be able to purchase blocks of points for cash, and then use those purchased points in combination with your earned points to buy a ticket. You will not, however, be able to simply use 3,000 existing points as a $50 off coupon and pay the remainder of the fare with cash.

nsx

1. Yes
2. No
3. No, but you can buy the necessary points at $25/1k.