Rapid Rewards 2.0 begins March 1, 2011
Jan 6, 2011, 7:26 pm
#316
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: LAS-DEN
Programs: WN CP & B-list. Disillusioned fmr UA-1P/2P,F9-Ascent; Fmr AA-Plat,CO-Gold,NW-Silver,TWA-Elite
Posts: 1,630
If you truly fly that route every weekend then you will be close to Chairmans Preferred by the end of the year. After the first 15 round-trip flights you will make silver on US. That will give you upgrades to first class , elite security line access and free you from the luggage fee.
Jan 6, 2011, 7:34 pm
#317
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2
I'm going to be completely screwed during this transition period, and I'm not very happy about it.
I'm not a frequent flyer like most of you. I typically fly about 4-5 times per year. This worked great under the old system, because I always just barely get the 16 credits in 2 years I need for a free flight.
The new system will work fine for me too. Although I will earn flights somewhat more slowly, the fact that points don't expire means I will still be able to get a free flight every few years. I don't really mind the lower rate of return, because rewards are not the main reason I fly, and since I'm really not earning much to begin with, the difference isn't significant to me. I use the free flights to make extra trips to visit family that I would not otherwise be able to justify.
I currently have 10 credits that will start disappearing about a year from now. This will be a somewhat low travel year for me, and I only expect to make about 3 trips this year. The tickets will average around $120 one-way. Under the old system, I would get the 16 credits I needed for an award. If all my flights were under the new system, I would have earned some amount of points that would never expire. But during this transition, I need to earn 7200 points by next January or my credits will start disappearing. That means I will need to make 5 trips instead of 3, based on the average cost of my tickets. This will not happen, and so I will get absolutely no benefit from those 10 credits.
Looking at the rules for people with A-list status and companion passes and such, it seems like Southwest went to some effort to make this a painless transition, but I don't think they considered the effect on people like me who just barely earn their awards every two years. Why can't we convert credits from the old system to points in the new system for the same rate of exchange they want us to use to convert points to credits? Alternatively, why couldn't they let us have a year or so where we could have the option of earning credits the old way or points the new way? I understand that my 8 Wanna Get Away fares per year aren't really that important to Southwest, but int the past I would never even check other websites when I had to purchase airfare, and that is something that is probably going to change for me.
I'm not a frequent flyer like most of you. I typically fly about 4-5 times per year. This worked great under the old system, because I always just barely get the 16 credits in 2 years I need for a free flight.
The new system will work fine for me too. Although I will earn flights somewhat more slowly, the fact that points don't expire means I will still be able to get a free flight every few years. I don't really mind the lower rate of return, because rewards are not the main reason I fly, and since I'm really not earning much to begin with, the difference isn't significant to me. I use the free flights to make extra trips to visit family that I would not otherwise be able to justify.
I currently have 10 credits that will start disappearing about a year from now. This will be a somewhat low travel year for me, and I only expect to make about 3 trips this year. The tickets will average around $120 one-way. Under the old system, I would get the 16 credits I needed for an award. If all my flights were under the new system, I would have earned some amount of points that would never expire. But during this transition, I need to earn 7200 points by next January or my credits will start disappearing. That means I will need to make 5 trips instead of 3, based on the average cost of my tickets. This will not happen, and so I will get absolutely no benefit from those 10 credits.
Looking at the rules for people with A-list status and companion passes and such, it seems like Southwest went to some effort to make this a painless transition, but I don't think they considered the effect on people like me who just barely earn their awards every two years. Why can't we convert credits from the old system to points in the new system for the same rate of exchange they want us to use to convert points to credits? Alternatively, why couldn't they let us have a year or so where we could have the option of earning credits the old way or points the new way? I understand that my 8 Wanna Get Away fares per year aren't really that important to Southwest, but int the past I would never even check other websites when I had to purchase airfare, and that is something that is probably going to change for me.
Jan 6, 2011, 7:35 pm
#318
Join Date: May 2004
Location: US
Programs: UA Lifetime Gold, IHG Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 973
For me RR 2.0 is a major devaluation. I mostly got credits from car rentals and hotel stays and some travel on Southwest. So 32 car rentals/hotel stays gets a free ticket which I typically use to go from HOU to SJC (about $350). Now at 600 points each, I will need to collect 70 to 75 car rentals/hotel stays. The new RR is good for short haul flights.
Jan 6, 2011, 7:40 pm
#319
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: LAS-DEN
Programs: WN CP & B-list. Disillusioned fmr UA-1P/2P,F9-Ascent; Fmr AA-Plat,CO-Gold,NW-Silver,TWA-Elite
Posts: 1,630
I think we should all take a breath for a moment and give a quick ^ to Brian and the entire Rapid Rewards team.
I recall a time in my life when I had a lot of the responsibility for converting from one computer system to another. We worked and tested for 6 months or more to make sure the day of conversion went smooth. I worked the entire weekend to do the transition. I came in to work early Monday morning to deal with any surprise problems. Fortunately, there was only one. I stayed a bit late until the next shift was on-board and things appeared to be running OK.
Like my example, I'm sure Brian and the RR team have been planning for this for quite a while. No doubt they knew that some would be frustrated with the new system and that we, the FT community, would challenge them with some tough questions that they had not thought about regarding A-list and A-list-plus 2011 and 2012 expiration.
Lets give a bit of credit to all these folks. Some might have had a hand in the redesign (for better or worse) and others are just the messengers. Don't shoot the messengers!
There might have even been some stated goals such as: We've got to do something about these guys that fly 16 $39 tickets and then we give them a free round trip across the country.
As I have had a bit more time to reflect on the new system, I'm seeing pluses and minuses all over the place here that may offset each other. Yeah, you can't fly 16 $39 fares and then get a really expensive ticket. But, you can earn A-list with CC spend? That's pretty cool.
For those who say you can't game the system... Come on! Its a whole new game, therefore a whole new challenge to figure it out. Isn't that what a true FT lives for? There is CC spend, there is A+, there is a whole lot of ideas here. There is the no expiration feature for friends and family that are not the heavy fliers that some of us are, yet we might be able to generate some value out of their limited fly accounts that we can't do right now.
And, I don't think you are taking into account that this is Southwest. They have been giving double credits in Denver last year. You don't think that they are going to be giving double points or something like that either in Denver, Atlanta or somewhere next year?
There is all kinds of ways that this can work out.
There was an early post about DL and some promo that apparently was only out of BNA or maybe 4 cities? Sure, there are going to be times when it actually makes sense to fly with someone else. I think there are times like that now, so nothing has changed there. The question is: Are there going to be more times or less times than before.
Bottom line for me it still comes down to change fees. I'm so glad to see a couple of commercials reinforcing that no change fees are here to stay -- specifically one that is like the People's Court where the lady accuses the guy in the suit of charging her a $150 change fee and the guy in the suit tries to defend himself by saying "well, there are all these costs of making a change."
I recall a time in my life when I had a lot of the responsibility for converting from one computer system to another. We worked and tested for 6 months or more to make sure the day of conversion went smooth. I worked the entire weekend to do the transition. I came in to work early Monday morning to deal with any surprise problems. Fortunately, there was only one. I stayed a bit late until the next shift was on-board and things appeared to be running OK.
Like my example, I'm sure Brian and the RR team have been planning for this for quite a while. No doubt they knew that some would be frustrated with the new system and that we, the FT community, would challenge them with some tough questions that they had not thought about regarding A-list and A-list-plus 2011 and 2012 expiration.
Lets give a bit of credit to all these folks. Some might have had a hand in the redesign (for better or worse) and others are just the messengers. Don't shoot the messengers!
There might have even been some stated goals such as: We've got to do something about these guys that fly 16 $39 tickets and then we give them a free round trip across the country.
As I have had a bit more time to reflect on the new system, I'm seeing pluses and minuses all over the place here that may offset each other. Yeah, you can't fly 16 $39 fares and then get a really expensive ticket. But, you can earn A-list with CC spend? That's pretty cool.
For those who say you can't game the system... Come on! Its a whole new game, therefore a whole new challenge to figure it out. Isn't that what a true FT lives for? There is CC spend, there is A+, there is a whole lot of ideas here. There is the no expiration feature for friends and family that are not the heavy fliers that some of us are, yet we might be able to generate some value out of their limited fly accounts that we can't do right now.
And, I don't think you are taking into account that this is Southwest. They have been giving double credits in Denver last year. You don't think that they are going to be giving double points or something like that either in Denver, Atlanta or somewhere next year?
There is all kinds of ways that this can work out.
There was an early post about DL and some promo that apparently was only out of BNA or maybe 4 cities? Sure, there are going to be times when it actually makes sense to fly with someone else. I think there are times like that now, so nothing has changed there. The question is: Are there going to be more times or less times than before.
Bottom line for me it still comes down to change fees. I'm so glad to see a couple of commercials reinforcing that no change fees are here to stay -- specifically one that is like the People's Court where the lady accuses the guy in the suit of charging her a $150 change fee and the guy in the suit tries to defend himself by saying "well, there are all these costs of making a change."
Jan 6, 2011, 7:56 pm
#320
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2000
Location: RDU
Programs: AA LT Gold, DL SM, HY Disc, Marriott LT Gold
Posts: 12,507
The interesting side effect for me is that I have to think about dumping hotel points to make CP by 2/28. I'm not particularly close, however - have 55, need 45. But I tend to use my RR1 awards in pairs for MDW-PacificTimeZone flights that these days run about $365-$420. The blip that a CP earned on 3/1/11 lasting to 12/31/12... that's enough for me to use the CP for probably five paid leisure trips, so about $1800-2000 in value.
I figure I'd have to give up about $1250 worth of SPG and IC hotel credits from SPG and IC to do it:
By doing that, I'd be saving an average of $125 on the second ticket of each leisure trip.
Given the risk of something happening where I or whoever would be my CP can't take all five trips, I think I'm too far away to actually do it. But I put the logic out here for critique and to give others some ideas.
And I may move in 80k IC points in before IC leaves on 1/24, because I earn those pretty quickly and I like the idea that for that plus the $50 extension fee, I can have an extra pair of RR1 one-ways for emergencies through 1/15/2013.
I figure I'd have to give up about $1250 worth of SPG and IC hotel credits from SPG and IC to do it:
By doing that, I'd be saving an average of $125 on the second ticket of each leisure trip.
Given the risk of something happening where I or whoever would be my CP can't take all five trips, I think I'm too far away to actually do it. But I put the logic out here for critique and to give others some ideas.
And I may move in 80k IC points in before IC leaves on 1/24, because I earn those pretty quickly and I like the idea that for that plus the $50 extension fee, I can have an extra pair of RR1 one-ways for emergencies through 1/15/2013.
Jan 6, 2011, 8:15 pm
#321
Moderator: Southwest Airlines, Capital One
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
Programs: WN Companion Pass, A-list preferred, Hyatt Globalist; United Club Lietime (sic) Member
Posts: 21,624
Furthermore, it was once only 8 $29 tickets! With last-seat award availability!! Ah, the good old days for us: bad old days for Southwest's RR management.
Jan 6, 2011, 8:22 pm
#322
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 2
Bad business decision
Business travelers who buy the more expensive classes of service will love RR 2.0 since they will get free travel (for personal use) more quickly that under RR 1.0. But who flies SW on long haul business trips? Not many people, in my experience. Certainly not as many business people on SW flights as on AA or UA.
For everyone else, RR 2.0 is a downgrade. Might as well fly AA or NW or UA.
I think that SW created RR 2.0 with the expectation that it will attract more high-paying business travelers. However, I don't expect that the program will attract business travelers. Frequent business travelers want pre-reserved seating, upgrades to first class, and other perks.
Call me crazy, but I'll bet that SW is going to see a large decline in business within the first six months of RR 2.0 and they are going to scramble to revise the program.
P.S. RR 2.0 is the best thing that could ever happen to SW's competitors.
For everyone else, RR 2.0 is a downgrade. Might as well fly AA or NW or UA.
I think that SW created RR 2.0 with the expectation that it will attract more high-paying business travelers. However, I don't expect that the program will attract business travelers. Frequent business travelers want pre-reserved seating, upgrades to first class, and other perks.
Call me crazy, but I'll bet that SW is going to see a large decline in business within the first six months of RR 2.0 and they are going to scramble to revise the program.
P.S. RR 2.0 is the best thing that could ever happen to SW's competitors.
Jan 6, 2011, 8:28 pm
#323
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Programs: AA Plat, UA Silver, DL Silver, Marriott Titanium, etc.
Posts: 4,210
What happens to my RR credits / Earned Awards on March 1, 2011
nsx said this was simple, but I have no idea what this means:
Does this mean that my current award supposedly good through July now expires March 1 and I have to pay $50 to "extend" it?
Please clarify for me (keep in mind I don't fly WN very much so I may not be understanding the terminology here.)
I may be able to earn another award before March 1 - is there any advantage to my doing so?
What does it mean to "top off" an award? It seems to me if I have an award from earning 16 credits the only thing I can do is earn another 16-credits for another award.
The transition for earnings is simple. You have a one-time option to top off your last 16-credit Standard Award at the ratio of 1200 points per credit. At that point you get a Standard Award. From then on, you can only earn points, not credits. FT member swag came up with a tip: It might be wise to delay exercising your option until you really need the Standard Award. That way it will carry a later expiration date if you don't use it immediately.
You cannot transfer any Standard Awards into points. Your Standard Awards will expire, but they can be extended for $50, as provided by the current rules, if they were issued before March 1, 2011.
You cannot transfer any Standard Awards into points. Your Standard Awards will expire, but they can be extended for $50, as provided by the current rules, if they were issued before March 1, 2011.
Please clarify for me (keep in mind I don't fly WN very much so I may not be understanding the terminology here.)
I may be able to earn another award before March 1 - is there any advantage to my doing so?
What does it mean to "top off" an award? It seems to me if I have an award from earning 16 credits the only thing I can do is earn another 16-credits for another award.
Jan 6, 2011, 8:42 pm
#324
Join Date: Nov 2004
Programs: SWA CP
Posts: 211
I am almost sure I'm right on this. I'm close to CP re-qualification now, and I'll top off to reach it by March 2011. It wouldn't be fair if I got CP through 2012 and azgrunge didn't, just because I was slower in requalifying.
Jan 6, 2011, 8:44 pm
#325
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2000
Location: RDU
Programs: AA LT Gold, DL SM, HY Disc, Marriott LT Gold
Posts: 12,507
Business travelers who buy the more expensive classes of service will love RR 2.0 since they will get free travel (for personal use) more quickly that under RR 1.0. But who flies SW on long haul business trips? Not many people, in my experience. Certainly not as many business people on SW flights as on AA or UA.
Jan 6, 2011, 8:52 pm
#326
Moderator: Southwest Airlines, Capital One
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
Programs: WN Companion Pass, A-list preferred, Hyatt Globalist; United Club Lietime (sic) Member
Posts: 21,624
I may be able to earn another award before March 1 - is there any advantage to my doing so?
What does it mean to "top off" an award?
Jan 6, 2011, 8:52 pm
#327
Moderator: Southwest Airlines, Capital One
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
Programs: WN Companion Pass, A-list preferred, Hyatt Globalist; United Club Lietime (sic) Member
Posts: 21,624
I think azgrunge is misinterpreting here, but maybe nsx or the others can clarify. azgrunge earned 100 credits some time in April 2010, then picked up another 100 credits between then and 11/25/10. Because the CP was earned before 3/1/11, my interpretation is that azgrunge will get CP through the end of 2012.
I am almost sure I'm right on this. I'm close to CP re-qualification now, and I'll top off to reach it by March 2011. It wouldn't be fair if I got CP through 2012 and azgrunge didn't, just because I was slower in requalifying.
I am almost sure I'm right on this. I'm close to CP re-qualification now, and I'll top off to reach it by March 2011. It wouldn't be fair if I got CP through 2012 and azgrunge didn't, just because I was slower in requalifying.
Jan 6, 2011, 9:03 pm
#328
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Ellicott City, MD USA
Programs: SPG Plat and that is that!
Posts: 253
Seat Availability of a RR1.0 award after March 1, 2011?
Hi
Took a few hours off. Back with a question. We are all in consensus, it seems, that getting as many RR1.0 awards as possible is the best course of action. Agree. I think...my question is...
Starting March 1, 2011, will a RR1.0 award be able to book "any seat, any time" ... or will it still be subject to capacity/date controls.
Meaning...will Southwest maintain the RR1.0 availability model in a computer somewhere, but also the new 2.0 model will exist?
I have 2 very specific examples that would help clarify:
(A) On March 24, 2011, from BWI - LAS, as of *now*, there are *some* flights available for award, but not all BWI-LAS that day. Flight 2377 is available right now for Standard Award, but Flight 1974 is not available.
Once March 1 rolls around, assuming all else is equal, will Flight 2377 still be available for RR1.0 award? I assume so, cleary.
BUT...will Filght 1974 not be available, meaning they are maintaining some sort of shadow system to track RR1.0 availability? OR...will March 1 trigger that legacy RR1.0 awards can book to any flight - including one that was previously not available (assuming at least one seat is availble)?
(B) On March 27, 2011, from LAS - BWI, there are NO FLIGHTS AT ALL. Blackout date. On March 1, 2011, will those blackout dates go away, and I can then use a RR1.0 award on a flight that day, or will SWA maintain this for RR1.0 awards only?
Thanks!
EC T
Took a few hours off. Back with a question. We are all in consensus, it seems, that getting as many RR1.0 awards as possible is the best course of action. Agree. I think...my question is...
Starting March 1, 2011, will a RR1.0 award be able to book "any seat, any time" ... or will it still be subject to capacity/date controls.
Meaning...will Southwest maintain the RR1.0 availability model in a computer somewhere, but also the new 2.0 model will exist?
I have 2 very specific examples that would help clarify:
(A) On March 24, 2011, from BWI - LAS, as of *now*, there are *some* flights available for award, but not all BWI-LAS that day. Flight 2377 is available right now for Standard Award, but Flight 1974 is not available.
Once March 1 rolls around, assuming all else is equal, will Flight 2377 still be available for RR1.0 award? I assume so, cleary.
BUT...will Filght 1974 not be available, meaning they are maintaining some sort of shadow system to track RR1.0 availability? OR...will March 1 trigger that legacy RR1.0 awards can book to any flight - including one that was previously not available (assuming at least one seat is availble)?
(B) On March 27, 2011, from LAS - BWI, there are NO FLIGHTS AT ALL. Blackout date. On March 1, 2011, will those blackout dates go away, and I can then use a RR1.0 award on a flight that day, or will SWA maintain this for RR1.0 awards only?
Thanks!
EC T
Jan 6, 2011, 9:07 pm
#329
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Ellicott City, MD USA
Programs: SPG Plat and that is that!
Posts: 253
Per nsx...I think I am good w/r/t...
So...I just happened to top off my SWA account about 2 weeks ago via an SPG to SWA transfer, but got an extra 0.5 credits over what I needed.
So...my account says
Credits Needed for next award: 15.5
My 16th credit must be earned by: 12/20/2012
So basically, as I understand it...between now and 12/20/12, I will have the option (which I will take as a WGA flyer only) to get credits, not points. I will fly likely about 10 segments during this 23 month period.
So I will still need 5.5 credits.
Will I still be able to transfer hotel points from somewhere to legacy RR1.0 credits, to top off my account by 12/20/12? Or will this 23 month period mean I need to strictly fly to get credits? I can't recall if I read that or not?
Thanks!
So...my account says
Credits Needed for next award: 15.5
My 16th credit must be earned by: 12/20/2012
So basically, as I understand it...between now and 12/20/12, I will have the option (which I will take as a WGA flyer only) to get credits, not points. I will fly likely about 10 segments during this 23 month period.
So I will still need 5.5 credits.
Will I still be able to transfer hotel points from somewhere to legacy RR1.0 credits, to top off my account by 12/20/12? Or will this 23 month period mean I need to strictly fly to get credits? I can't recall if I read that or not?
Thanks!
Last edited by EC Traveler; Jan 6, 2011 at 9:08 pm Reason: bad math
Jan 6, 2011, 9:08 pm
#330
Moderator: Southwest Airlines, Capital One
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
Programs: WN Companion Pass, A-list preferred, Hyatt Globalist; United Club Lietime (sic) Member
Posts: 21,624
The only analogous case is JetBlue. There the capacity controls on old awards remained and got tighter and tighter.