mile ho

You're right. The SW Chase is a much better deal. But we know how they like to devalue our points. I'm hoping the apparent agreement to dismiss Amex will allow the 1200 per credit to continue. I'm sure there is some give and take going on. The marketplace is still too competitive for the banks to completely strong arm the carriers (and us).

Surely this has something major to do with RR 2.0. Yet I remain hopeful not too much devaluation will occur since everyone is still struggling; still grabbing for our loyalty. I think. Oh well, k sarah sarah. Whoever she is.

carraher

"The Southwest Chase card has always been better then AMEX for earning an award....$1200/credit (plus double $$ for Southwest and partners like Hilton, Avis, etc) vs. $1500/credit for AMEX. So it takes $19,200 in spend to earn an award ticket w/ the Chase card vs $24,000 w/ AMEX. That's a much better deal than AMEX."

Well, it's not that simple especially for folks who use points to accumulate credits towards annual companion passes. As an example, in the past three months I have acquired over 80 credits towards next years CP. I expect to reach the goal less than five months into the yearly window. After that, any credits accumulated from the RR card will still go towards rewards flights but not carry over for the next year companion pass. My strategy had been to begin using Amex once I had reached the 100 credit amount. I would then convert the reward points to SWA credits once my new CP is issued. I hope that wasn't to confusing. In short, the best strategy is a combination of SWA card and Amex card. We will figure out something to counterbalance this latest unfortunate news.

kerflumexed

Like others, I routinely have used Amex points to top off CP qualification each year. A few months ago I dumped a bunch of MR points over to SWA in anticipation that something might happen. It will be interesting to see how much CP changes under RR 2.0. Makes me wonder if CP will disappear.

nsx

In the opinion survey that was copied in the RR 2.0 speculation thread, the CP was maintained essentially unchanged.

pr57001

My Corporate AMEX can be linked to my personal AMEX, giving me a pathway for Other Peoples Money to get me free SWA tickets. It's not spend that I can switch to my RR Visa (which I also have).

divemistressofthedark

A couple of assumptions in this thread I'd care to question...

1.) SPG isn't "the best" program compared to Amex MR, if you're racking up a lot of points using day to day spend on its CC as opposed to hotel stays. SPG offers no point multipliers [gas, grocery, travel] outside spend at SPG properties, and it has no online mall, whereas MR features 2:1 for gas and grocery on at least two of its products and 3:1 for travel purchases on PR Gold. It also features 3:1 on both its Gold products at Bonuspointsmall.com, 4:1 for its PLAT. Its list of online shopping partners is huge - hundreds and hundreds of vendors, and it includes retail goliaths like Wal-Mart, Target, Old Navy, Best Buy.

I'll grant you, SPG's rewards are really handsome - good availability at great properties for a good redemption rate, a lot of the time, but also much less availability of properties in many US metro areas. If you need to stay in a location without SPG, you have to transfer through other programs, which can take weeks. MR transfers points instantly into other programs - only a couple are direct transfers into the loyalty programs, but you can book packages of a few days in several or use Pay with Points. Granted, the redemption rates aren't usually fantastic (PwP's are awful), but at least you have faster, easier options if you're really stuck on your dates and/or location and need some flexibility as far as property availability.

Don't get me wrong - I don't think SPG is a bad program, I carry it myself. I'm just saying there may be ways to tailor CC spend to maximize benefits a little more efficiently if you're into that kind of thing.

2.) WN Visa is not "better" than MR for racking up points, again if you're mostly into using your CC to accrue. It has only a handful of partners, all of them hotel and rental car chains (and if you're any kind of frequent traveler, you likely already a status member at at least one of them, and you likely already have that hotel or car rental's own card - which will offer better earning and redemption rates for use at its company). Also, the earn rates at partners aren't great: 2:1? When you're talking about 1200 in spend = 1 RR? Come on. MR's redemption rates weren't much worse, especially when compared to the relative ease of earn, which I'll get into in a minute.

Also, you earn only 2:1 booking WN flights using its Visa. WN Visa offers no travel protection options like MR products - premium car rental protection, baggage delay - $500 if your bags are delayed three hours; flight delay - $250 if your flight is pushed past 9 PM, etc. This is a major impediment toward earning points on WN using its card, IMO. Also, WN Visa has no daily bonus multipliers for daily spend (at least two MR products offer 2:1 on gas/grocery) or online shopping mall (MR offers 3:1 for Gold products, 4:1 PLAT). Again, see the list of MR partners when considering the merits of online shopping: Wal-Mart, etc.

I'm just saying. For some people, some options make sense, but they're not necessarily one-size-fits-all for everyone.

I'm also extremely dismayed at the drop of WN from MR. I'll definitely be rejiggering my loyalty patterns - not necessarily toward spending more on my Chase Visa - and will be dropping notes to corporate HQ about this, stat. In case anyone cares to join me:

Gary Kelly
Chairman, President & CEO
Southwest Airlines
2702 Love Field Dr.
Dallas, TX 75235
Phone: 214-792-4000
Fax: 214-792-5015

(There may be a better contact, but I figure it's always best to start at the top when unsure.)

honey4life12

Perhaps I'm missing something, but I've been using the AMEX Gold which gives 3X the MR points on airfare purchases for my WN flight purchases. I buy $500 in Southwest flights and get 1,500 MR points versus having to spend $600 in Southwest flights to get 1,200 RR Dollars.

This math also doesn't take into account the Gold card's 15K MR bonus after hitting $30K in spend (if you spend that much) which gives an even better transfer than SPG's bonus and a feature that Chase WN card doesn't have.

but of course, everyone's situation is different - this change just cuts off this +% earning opportunity with WN.

divemistressofthedark

Honey's talking about the new Amex Premier Rewards Gold - the old Preferred Gold card doesn't offer 3:1 for travel purchases or a 15K signing bonus (sorry to have to tell you this, but it's not 15K MR for every 1000 spend, only for the first 1000. Sigh).

Although, s/he's right about the point multiplier: Amex PR Gold gives 3:1 for airlines - all US domestics - plus really valuable trip protections, the aforementioned flight delay and baggage loss protection. IMO, that option is clearly superior to the paltry 2:1 you get from WN Visa. Also, Premier Rewards Gold offers 2:1 on gas and groceries. This offer is good at all U.S. gas/grocery brands and outlets, rather than being limited to a select number of chains.

We've been talking about Premier Rewards Gold here, if anyone is interested:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...l#post13117847

nsx

I got an Amex gold card about 18 months ago, with 25k bonus MR points on first use and no fee for a year. That was a great help in adding a second CP to my household.

Are there any similar deals available now? IIRC, the 25k deal was only for people who had never had that card before.

philemer

You'll get more help, IMHO, if you move your post to the Am. Ex. MR Forum. Usually, with AMEX cards, you get one bonus only, or the incremental difference if the latest one is better, but YMMV of course.

paramount

But when you are buying airline tickets through WN with MR you get 3x points so the spend is actually 8000 to get 24000 points and a free flight whereas with visa for airline tickets you get 2x points so the spend is 8600 to get 19200 points. That was the other peoples points.

toomanybooks

$9600 to get 19200.

penguin1

Why is the relationship with AMEX being severed? I have over 200K AMEX Rewards points which I was looking to use for SWA but, can't apply toward a CP until 1 Sep (am qualified for the CP pass through Aug 2011 already )

RATS!

divemistressofthedark

The most prevalent theory amongst FTers seems to be Chase Bank, which runs WN Visa, getting more defensive regarding its territory. However, could be something related to the relaunch of Southwest's RR program.

In either case, this well and truly stinks.

penguin1

But why is Diners Club being retained????