Oh how AF and Skyteam really suck!
Jan 12, 2001, 3:05 pm
#16
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 782
Like so many of DL's recent "enhancements" to its SkyMiles Program, SkyTeam is an illusion. After waiting too long to form strategic alliances, DL cobbled together this joke of a program. You now have a choice of an airline which is renowned for atrocious customer service and a "you bet your life" carrier. In years to come, DL's management over the past few years will be a casebook study of how the rush to short-term profit erodes long term success.
Jan 12, 2001, 11:41 pm
#17
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 542
On a recent international trip on Delta, three of the intra-european flights were on AF with AF flight numbers.
AF did not automatically post the miles to my SkyMiles account. When I spoke to SMS, Customer Care and the SkyMiles Service Centre, I was advised that it can take up to six weeks for AF to post the miles (and one of the agents even documented my SkyMiles account that I was so advised).
One of the agents did tell me that Delta is quite upset about this, and that they are trying hard to get AF to post the miles in a timely manner. Since I needed those 3 flights in order to qualify for Platinum Status, I had to fax in my boarding passes and passenger receipt to the SkyMiles Service Centre multiple times (that's another story) and finally got credit for all three flights.
On my return to the US, I was booked VIE-CDG-JFk-LAX. The VIE-CDG segment was on AF, and the AF agent told me I would have to get my boarding passes for the CDG-JFK-LAX flights from Delta at CDG. At CDG, the AF agent (working the DL flight) told me that I would have to get my boarding pass for the JFK-LAX flight at JFK. She said that since my bags had been checked all the way to LAX, if she issued the boarding pass from JFK-LAX, my bags would get left behind at CDG. It didn't make any sense whatsoever. Anyways, I had to check-in seperately for each of the three segments which I felt was pretty ridiculus.
Needless to say, SkyTeam doesn't seem like a alliance. Especially since AF does whatever they want and doesn't really act like a partner.
AF did not automatically post the miles to my SkyMiles account. When I spoke to SMS, Customer Care and the SkyMiles Service Centre, I was advised that it can take up to six weeks for AF to post the miles (and one of the agents even documented my SkyMiles account that I was so advised).
One of the agents did tell me that Delta is quite upset about this, and that they are trying hard to get AF to post the miles in a timely manner. Since I needed those 3 flights in order to qualify for Platinum Status, I had to fax in my boarding passes and passenger receipt to the SkyMiles Service Centre multiple times (that's another story) and finally got credit for all three flights.
On my return to the US, I was booked VIE-CDG-JFk-LAX. The VIE-CDG segment was on AF, and the AF agent told me I would have to get my boarding passes for the CDG-JFK-LAX flights from Delta at CDG. At CDG, the AF agent (working the DL flight) told me that I would have to get my boarding pass for the JFK-LAX flight at JFK. She said that since my bags had been checked all the way to LAX, if she issued the boarding pass from JFK-LAX, my bags would get left behind at CDG. It didn't make any sense whatsoever. Anyways, I had to check-in seperately for each of the three segments which I felt was pretty ridiculus.
Needless to say, SkyTeam doesn't seem like a alliance. Especially since AF does whatever they want and doesn't really act like a partner.
Jan 22, 2001, 2:57 am
#20
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Orange County, CA
Programs: Vanishing
Posts: 1,681
Here are my AF experiences from this weekend's rerouting through CDG.
First of all, upgrades are unheard of on intre-Europe flights, even if they have a DL number. The first time this happened to me, AF could have blamed it on a full flight, but not this time! There were a few seats open in the first 2 sections of the A-319, but, No, no upgrades for lowly Delta fliers!
Now for something positive: Access to the Air France lounge in terminal 2B at CDG was no problem at all. I just presented my PM card and I was signed in immediately! The hostess had a speccial Delta sign in sheet that she told me Delta wanted to have filled in. Maybe they want to keep an eye on AF after all I have read about Lounge access in this forum?
Boarding for the CDG-ARN flight was a copy of a Southwest cattle call, except that there were no groups of 30 being called. Everybody just rushed to the gate when the flight was called, No FC or Elite preboarding was ever called, just walk on board as you get to the gate!
/Pete
First of all, upgrades are unheard of on intre-Europe flights, even if they have a DL number. The first time this happened to me, AF could have blamed it on a full flight, but not this time! There were a few seats open in the first 2 sections of the A-319, but, No, no upgrades for lowly Delta fliers!
Now for something positive: Access to the Air France lounge in terminal 2B at CDG was no problem at all. I just presented my PM card and I was signed in immediately! The hostess had a speccial Delta sign in sheet that she told me Delta wanted to have filled in. Maybe they want to keep an eye on AF after all I have read about Lounge access in this forum?
Boarding for the CDG-ARN flight was a copy of a Southwest cattle call, except that there were no groups of 30 being called. Everybody just rushed to the gate when the flight was called, No FC or Elite preboarding was ever called, just walk on board as you get to the gate!
/Pete
Jan 22, 2001, 6:18 am
#21
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: FLL - DL DM MM - HHonors Gold
Posts: 1,093
Originally posted by Dataton:
I encountered a similar situation with Swissair few years back after weather cancellations. The Swissair agents were equally recalcitrant.
I encountered a similar situation with Swissair few years back after weather cancellations. The Swissair agents were equally recalcitrant.
Jan 25, 2001, 12:21 am
#22
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: LAX - Skyteam E+
Posts: 113
What a great topic this is, I don't check in here too often so this string almost got by me. I think it should be perpetual.
I don't have enough time right now to express my individual frustrations regarding the past six months of travel on AF as a DL passenger (I could write all night), I will however paste part of an email I recently sent to a friend who made a trip with me through CDG. Surprise, surprise, it relates to a lost bag (expletive altered):
[begin email]
Air France sucks, your problem is not that they can't find it, but that they still haven't taken the time to look for it - despite what they may be telling you. It's sitting in a big pile of bags in CDG and at some point the lazy f***s who "work" there will put out their cigarettes and send it to you.
I've had this happen to me at CDG twice in the past six months - the only two times I checked a bag through there. According to Delta, however, whatever carrier delivers you to your final destination on the same ticket you lost your bag on becomes equally responsible for its return - in other words, if your return to SFO is on the same ticket as the CMN-AMS flights then DELTA becomes equally responsible for the return of your bag. So, if this is the case (and even if it isn't) you should call Delta lost baggage service and tell them "the baggage people in AMS told me I should call you when I got home". If you do this right, Delta will then send a cable to Air France asking where the bag is and Air France will then for the first time actually look for and find your bag. It is important to note that AF will not inform you or Delta that they have found the bag, but it will show up at your work a few days later with all the original tags as well as your ID still firmly affixed. Let me know how things proceed.
[end of email]
I don't have enough time right now to express my individual frustrations regarding the past six months of travel on AF as a DL passenger (I could write all night), I will however paste part of an email I recently sent to a friend who made a trip with me through CDG. Surprise, surprise, it relates to a lost bag (expletive altered):
[begin email]
Air France sucks, your problem is not that they can't find it, but that they still haven't taken the time to look for it - despite what they may be telling you. It's sitting in a big pile of bags in CDG and at some point the lazy f***s who "work" there will put out their cigarettes and send it to you.
I've had this happen to me at CDG twice in the past six months - the only two times I checked a bag through there. According to Delta, however, whatever carrier delivers you to your final destination on the same ticket you lost your bag on becomes equally responsible for its return - in other words, if your return to SFO is on the same ticket as the CMN-AMS flights then DELTA becomes equally responsible for the return of your bag. So, if this is the case (and even if it isn't) you should call Delta lost baggage service and tell them "the baggage people in AMS told me I should call you when I got home". If you do this right, Delta will then send a cable to Air France asking where the bag is and Air France will then for the first time actually look for and find your bag. It is important to note that AF will not inform you or Delta that they have found the bag, but it will show up at your work a few days later with all the original tags as well as your ID still firmly affixed. Let me know how things proceed.
[end of email]
Jan 26, 2001, 1:16 pm
#23
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: PARIS, France
Programs: Skymiles GOLD, Frq +, Klm GOLD, Miles & More, Priority Club, Marriott Rewards, MilleMerci (Avis FR)
Posts: 1,230
Just for you to know, Air France is posting its best results in 2000. The future is great for them, they have nearly all their seat busy, the alliance with Delta give them more and more business, and if they go on working good on transatlantic (and that is my opinion), they do not care about the european flights. Just pay and wait.
They have no fear for the slowdown of the economy as BA or Swissair are, they are not really trying to increase their share as Lufthansa is, and the only problem they could hve would be to loose the aliance with delta. Is this likely to occur.
So, to sum-up, what in the financial figures could tell them they are wrong, arrogant and working abd with customers (by the way, they do not think they havecustomers, we use the french word USAGER, that means that we pay to be allowed the access to the plane...).
They have no fear for the slowdown of the economy as BA or Swissair are, they are not really trying to increase their share as Lufthansa is, and the only problem they could hve would be to loose the aliance with delta. Is this likely to occur.
So, to sum-up, what in the financial figures could tell them they are wrong, arrogant and working abd with customers (by the way, they do not think they havecustomers, we use the french word USAGER, that means that we pay to be allowed the access to the plane...).
Jan 26, 2001, 3:07 pm
#24
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: NYC
Programs: UA/1K, DL/PM, AA/PLT, NW/SLV; SW/PLT, HH/DIA
Posts: 1,732
Felis -- thank you very much.
This is why neither DL nor AF will care about what you're telling them. That's also why the financial analysts won't care about Delta's FF's being unhappy. It doesn't affect their bottom line.
The only thing that might change the alliance was if DL was offered a sweeter deal from an alternate European carrier, but I don't think that's likely to happy. They're all tied up...
This is why neither DL nor AF will care about what you're telling them. That's also why the financial analysts won't care about Delta's FF's being unhappy. It doesn't affect their bottom line.
The only thing that might change the alliance was if DL was offered a sweeter deal from an alternate European carrier, but I don't think that's likely to happy. They're all tied up...
Jan 26, 2001, 3:15 pm
#25
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Munich, Germany
Programs: LH HON, DL FO/MM, Marriott Lifetime Platinum, Accor Lifetime Platinum, Sixt Diamond
Posts: 6,174
You know how AF fills their planes?
At least here in Germany, they are selling the cheapest tickets to NYC, BOS and other places for roughly 70% of the year. Imagine going MUC-JFK @ 350 $ in August (including tax, with booking 5 days in advance - seat avaiability permitting)...
DL is usually more expensive, with UA/LH being next in line.
So no matter how they (AF) p*** off regular pax in Y, they will get their planes full by selling cheap tickets through consolidators.
But in the end, if the economy slows down and leisure travel goes down, we'll see.
At least here in Germany, they are selling the cheapest tickets to NYC, BOS and other places for roughly 70% of the year. Imagine going MUC-JFK @ 350 $ in August (including tax, with booking 5 days in advance - seat avaiability permitting)...
DL is usually more expensive, with UA/LH being next in line.
So no matter how they (AF) p*** off regular pax in Y, they will get their planes full by selling cheap tickets through consolidators.
But in the end, if the economy slows down and leisure travel goes down, we'll see.
Jan 27, 2001, 1:06 am
#26
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: PARIS, France
Programs: Skymiles GOLD, Frq +, Klm GOLD, Miles & More, Priority Club, Marriott Rewards, MilleMerci (Avis FR)
Posts: 1,230
Hmmmmm
I think they do not care about selling chepaer than Delta, anyway they are proposing good rates as Lufthansa ans US airways, for instance, do all the year except in summer. Lufthansa propose here in France very attractive rates too.
they make their money with these flights that every american must take at Roissy. And at this game, they are far better than KLM in AMsterdam, BA in London, or Lufthansa in Frankfort....
So, even an economix slowdown may not improve our situation.
Sure that a deal from a competitor in Europe would, but who ? I do not see really one. Swissair and Alitalia are in discussions, but are they really a strong partner as Air France is ? Who could be this partner ? I donot see any.
I think they do not care about selling chepaer than Delta, anyway they are proposing good rates as Lufthansa ans US airways, for instance, do all the year except in summer. Lufthansa propose here in France very attractive rates too.
they make their money with these flights that every american must take at Roissy. And at this game, they are far better than KLM in AMsterdam, BA in London, or Lufthansa in Frankfort....
So, even an economix slowdown may not improve our situation.
Sure that a deal from a competitor in Europe would, but who ? I do not see really one. Swissair and Alitalia are in discussions, but are they really a strong partner as Air France is ? Who could be this partner ? I donot see any.
Jan 27, 2001, 10:43 am
#27
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: SFO, BOS, MUC and now HHH
Posts: 533
rec, I price flights from MUC to the US pretty often - I am getting very cheap fares on LH/UA as well - $330 to IAD, $400 to SFO, etc.
It is quite cheap to get status this way - thank god they don't base it on type of ticket rather than miles!
It is quite cheap to get status this way - thank god they don't base it on type of ticket rather than miles!
Jan 27, 2001, 10:49 am
#28
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: SFO, BOS, MUC and now HHH
Posts: 533
and also, AF has been almost always more expensive for me, so considering you have to xfer at CDG to boot, forget it.
Unless you fly to ATL or secondary destinations in the Southeast (SAV, JAC, MOB, etc.), *A is a better deal than Sky (from MUC that is).
Unless you fly to ATL or secondary destinations in the Southeast (SAV, JAC, MOB, etc.), *A is a better deal than Sky (from MUC that is).