4 airlines to join Skyteam!
Jun 10, 2005 | 8:20 am
#46
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Originally Posted by MikeMpls
I've nothing against Virgin, I've never even flow on Virgin. But I don't how an airline like Virgin would add any opportunities for me
Jun 10, 2005 | 8:21 am
#47
Join Date: May 2004
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FYI - http://allafrica.com/stories/200505180668.html ^
"...the carrier is one of the few airlines in Africa that have continued to register growth in profitability in an industry that has been dogged by failures and bankruptcies.
...
Kenya Airways now operates 15 weekly frequencies between South Africa and Kenya, boasting a mixed fleet of both B767 and B737-700 on the route. Over the past two years, Kenya Airways has undertaken an aggressive expansion drive aimed at consolidating its position in the African market. Last year, the airline opened new routes to West and Central Africa, including to Lilongwe, Blantyre and Lumbubashi among other destinations.
The acquisition of another Boeing 777-200ER last week, buoyed the airline's capacity and it is now better placed to penetrate Far East lucrative markets such as Hong Kong and Malaysia.
...
Less than a year after commencing services to Hong Kong, Kenya Airways commercial director Hugh Fraser told The EastAfrican that the airline was already carrying an 80 per cent load factor and that there was still room for growth.
The airline recently received another Boeing 777 and another is expected in June, completing a five-year $400 million dollar fleet modernisation programme.
...
Meanwhile, Kenya Airways has announced plans to fly to Instanbul and Shanghai in September as well as to some other African destinations."
"...the carrier is one of the few airlines in Africa that have continued to register growth in profitability in an industry that has been dogged by failures and bankruptcies.
...
Kenya Airways now operates 15 weekly frequencies between South Africa and Kenya, boasting a mixed fleet of both B767 and B737-700 on the route. Over the past two years, Kenya Airways has undertaken an aggressive expansion drive aimed at consolidating its position in the African market. Last year, the airline opened new routes to West and Central Africa, including to Lilongwe, Blantyre and Lumbubashi among other destinations.
The acquisition of another Boeing 777-200ER last week, buoyed the airline's capacity and it is now better placed to penetrate Far East lucrative markets such as Hong Kong and Malaysia.
...
Less than a year after commencing services to Hong Kong, Kenya Airways commercial director Hugh Fraser told The EastAfrican that the airline was already carrying an 80 per cent load factor and that there was still room for growth.
The airline recently received another Boeing 777 and another is expected in June, completing a five-year $400 million dollar fleet modernisation programme.
...
Meanwhile, Kenya Airways has announced plans to fly to Instanbul and Shanghai in September as well as to some other African destinations."
Jun 10, 2005 | 8:33 am
#48
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Originally Posted by ecaarch
It can get you to Australia. ^
Jun 10, 2005 | 9:02 am
#49
Join Date: May 2005
Location: SFO
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Originally Posted by fly747first
FYI Virgin Atlantic has never, ever had a First Class. They have a Business/First Class called "Upper Class."
But thanks for the quick jab. As a newbie here, I was feeling left out because you hadn't tried to pee in my wheaties yet, like you have with the other regulars.
Jun 10, 2005 | 9:39 am
#50
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Atlanta
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Tarom tops my list for WORST, banana-republic-without-the-bananas, complete $h!+ airline EVER!!! 
(in other words, I don't like them). I've been stuck flying them twice and, Lordy....don't even want to waste another keystroke complaining about them...
Kenya Airways is trying to pull up its socks through it's links with KLM, but it is still very much a third-world airline in which customer service means nothing and Nairobi is a nightmare.
I've been on a COPA flight once, and it was definitely up to Continental standards (not great, but not-banana-republic-though-in-a-banana-republic).
Overall, I have to agree with other posters that SkyTeam is really stooping to conquer if it can only attract this rag-tag bunch of airlines. Virgin is too good for SkyTeam, I'm afraid... Every other alliance has a top-notch carrier affiliated with it, but SkyTeam apparently is putting all it's chips on Aeroflot's world-reknown glamour and cachet.
(in other words, I don't like them). I've been stuck flying them twice and, Lordy....don't even want to waste another keystroke complaining about them...Kenya Airways is trying to pull up its socks through it's links with KLM, but it is still very much a third-world airline in which customer service means nothing and Nairobi is a nightmare.
I've been on a COPA flight once, and it was definitely up to Continental standards (not great, but not-banana-republic-though-in-a-banana-republic).
Overall, I have to agree with other posters that SkyTeam is really stooping to conquer if it can only attract this rag-tag bunch of airlines. Virgin is too good for SkyTeam, I'm afraid... Every other alliance has a top-notch carrier affiliated with it, but SkyTeam apparently is putting all it's chips on Aeroflot's world-reknown glamour and cachet.
Jun 10, 2005 | 10:49 am
#51
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Well then, who would be a better SkyTeam partner to cover the continent of Africa? South African Airways is already in Star Alliance, so they aren't in the running. That leaves us with the following options to partner with:
- Air Mauritius (only serves three cities in continental Africa)
- Air Seychelles (serves only Jo'burg in cont. Africa)
- EgyptAir (ugh - and only East Africa)
- Kulula (LCC that is only dom flights in SA)
- Air Tanzania (hell no!)
- Air Zimbabwe (hell no!)
- Tunisair (Teeny, tiny network)
- Daallo (Djibouti and Eth/Eri, basically)
- Royal Air Maroc (great, but only West Africa)
- Kenya Airways (bingo!!!)
That isn't all of the airlines in Africa, obviously, but the ones that aren't included in that list are basically identical as candidates to the ones that are (unless I'm really missing something). KQ looks like the best partner to me after South African. If the other option is to simply not have good coverage in Africa, I'll gladly take 'em.
peace,
~Ben~
- Air Mauritius (only serves three cities in continental Africa)
- Air Seychelles (serves only Jo'burg in cont. Africa)
- EgyptAir (ugh - and only East Africa)
- Kulula (LCC that is only dom flights in SA)
- Air Tanzania (hell no!)
- Air Zimbabwe (hell no!)
- Tunisair (Teeny, tiny network)
- Daallo (Djibouti and Eth/Eri, basically)
- Royal Air Maroc (great, but only West Africa)
- Kenya Airways (bingo!!!)
That isn't all of the airlines in Africa, obviously, but the ones that aren't included in that list are basically identical as candidates to the ones that are (unless I'm really missing something). KQ looks like the best partner to me after South African. If the other option is to simply not have good coverage in Africa, I'll gladly take 'em.
peace,
~Ben~
Jun 10, 2005 | 11:00 am
#52
Join Date: Mar 2004
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Originally Posted by jimrpa
Ah yes, once again, the intelligentsia of the board quickly swoop in to quell any possibility of opinions that vary from their own 
(gee, I've figured out how to use cute symbols and I'm not even an Intelligentsia, hailing from Wayne, PA 
Sorry to sully your erudite NY/Paris sensibilities with my little Philadelphia suburb parochialism)
<Snip>
Oh, and by the way, please feel free to ignore those posts that so terribly offend your cosmopolitan sensibilities. Trust me, I'll somehow continue to muddle through without your "enlightenment".
(gee, I've figured out how to use cute symbols and I'm not even an Intelligentsia, hailing from Wayne, PA Sorry to sully your erudite NY/Paris sensibilities with my little Philadelphia suburb parochialism)<Snip>
Oh, and by the way, please feel free to ignore those posts that so terribly offend your cosmopolitan sensibilities. Trust me, I'll somehow continue to muddle through without your "enlightenment".
Hey, you're right, the Wayne PA, snipe was cheap and uncalled for and I apologize for that.
But, frankly, your response did strike me as parochial.
Sure, we'd all love to see bigger better airlines join Skyteam, but I don't think adding the little guys hurts and it's certainly no reason to belittle the other guys, just because they're smaller or from smaller countries.
I come down on the side of others (who I think have made the point well enough) that adding these little guys does add something to the alliance while taking very little away. I agree strongly with the point that we're unlikely to see a flood of KQ frequent flyers fighting us for award inventory.
Also, I don't see why my post is "swooping in to quell" anything. It was a response to your opinion with my own. I don't recall calling you or even suggesting that you were stupid so, no, I'm not particularly struck one way or another about your use of cute symbols....
As for me being intelligentsia and cosmpolitan... well... call it whatever you like. I have my point of view, you have yours. But let me assure you that if I use big words, it because they're what my mama taught me, and for me NY and Paris are not icons of some highbrow ideal, they're the places I was born, raised (hardly the best neighborhoods of either, I might add...) and spend a great deal of my time.
Anyway, I'll avoid the snipes and would appreciate if you would avoid the generalizations. And we can keep to the topics at hand.
Jun 10, 2005 | 11:38 am
#53
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Atlanta
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Originally Posted by seoulmanjr
Well then, who would be a better SkyTeam partner to cover the continent of Africa?...
.
Jun 10, 2005 | 12:47 pm
#54
Join Date: Sep 2003
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Originally Posted by seoulmanjr
- Air Mauritius (only serves three cities in continental Africa)
- Air Seychelles (serves only Jo'burg in cont. Africa)
- EgyptAir (ugh - and only East Africa)
- Kulula (LCC that is only dom flights in SA)
- Air Tanzania (hell no!)
- Air Zimbabwe (hell no!)
- Tunisair (Teeny, tiny network)
- Daallo (Djibouti and Eth/Eri, basically)
- Royal Air Maroc (great, but only West Africa)
- Kenya Airways (bingo!!!)
- Air Seychelles (serves only Jo'burg in cont. Africa)
- EgyptAir (ugh - and only East Africa)
- Kulula (LCC that is only dom flights in SA)
- Air Tanzania (hell no!)
- Air Zimbabwe (hell no!)
- Tunisair (Teeny, tiny network)
- Daallo (Djibouti and Eth/Eri, basically)
- Royal Air Maroc (great, but only West Africa)
- Kenya Airways (bingo!!!)
Originally Posted by remyontheroad
I agree strongly with the point that we're unlikely to see a flood of KQ frequent flyers fighting us for award inventory.
As to UX, if they can get people from Europe to more points in Latin America and the Caribbean without passing through US - more power to them. Next time someone wants to fly to SDQ or SSA (!), they'll fly from MAD and will not be sitting in someone else's seat between Europe and the US. So much for award inventory
Jun 10, 2005 | 1:37 pm
#55
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Originally Posted by rhetor
Tarom tops my list for WORST, banana-republic-without-the-bananas, complete $h!+ airline EVER!!! (in other words, I don't like them).
(in other words, I don't like them).
Originally Posted by dkory
But thanks for the quick jab. As a newbie here, I was feeling left out because you hadn't tried to pee in my wheaties yet, like you have with the other regulars.
Jun 10, 2005 | 1:49 pm
#56
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Re Tarom: As a matter of curiosity I went to their website a few minutes ago and looked to see what a r/t in Economy class would cost me TLV-MXP.
It came up with a price of over $2000. AZ or LY would run about $600 at this time of year.
It came up with a price of over $2000. AZ or LY would run about $600 at this time of year.
Jun 10, 2005 | 2:55 pm
#57
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Long Beach, CA, USA
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Originally Posted by dkory
I'm flying SFO-ATL-PTY on Sunday in First/BE. I'll let you know how it was...
As for Africa, you can use your DL miles on AF into West Africa, or on VS into Nigeria or South Africa (Krueger and other game parks).
As for Africa, you can use your DL miles on AF into West Africa, or on VS into Nigeria or South Africa (Krueger and other game parks).
And you are right...I forgot about AF and VI to Africa! ^
Jun 10, 2005 | 5:20 pm
#59
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Originally Posted by Cholula
Again, I have to quote my erudite buddy, jimrpa.
I realize the backpackers on this board are thrilled about the new additions but, PLEASE, lets get serious here.....
If there are four lamer additions to SkyTeam that could have been added, pls advise.
Wait...I just thought of a few... Air Congo, Xiamen Airways, Nairobi Express and Ulan Bator International.
Sorry.....my bad
...
I realize the backpackers on this board are thrilled about the new additions but, PLEASE, lets get serious here....
.If there are four lamer additions to SkyTeam that could have been added, pls advise.
Wait...I just thought of a few... Air Congo, Xiamen Airways, Nairobi Express and Ulan Bator International.
Sorry.....my bad
...
Jun 10, 2005 | 5:26 pm
#60
Join Date: Aug 2001
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Originally Posted by Jetlanta777
but why are some people so damn critical?
A year ago all we heard was how SkyTeam was too small, not enough quality carriers, blah blah blah...
Now, since then, SkyTeam has added three extremely strong global carriers, CO, NW and KL. People still b*tch. No SE Asia carriers, no African carriers no Latin carriers, not enough quality carriers, blah blah blah.
So now SkyTeam adds four new ASSOCIATE carriers. They make no claim that these additions are going to help foster world peace or anything. In fact, the press release clearly indicates that these are tactical additions that should add improved access in certain regions. Thats all. People still b*tch.
Then people start criticizing Delta for these additions. I think it is plainly clear that Delta wasn't the driving force behind any of these additions. So give it a rest.
By the way, for those who are unfamiliar, Kenya Airways and COPA are two of the most respected and well-run airlines in their respective regions. Both have very strong, strategically-located hubs. Air Europa provides great coverage in the only part of Europe where SkyTeam was weak. Tarom doesn't do a lot but make Alitalia happy. The other three are most welcome, however.
Now, is this the end of the story? Of course not. SkyTeam has been very clear for a long time that it actively wants members in SE Asia and S America. It seems that some FT'ers think that quality carriers in these regions grow on trees. Most of the good ones are already affiliated. The fact is, it ain't that easy!
SE Asia- The only legitimate option here is Malaysia Airlines. Until very recently, this carrier has had incredible internal issues to deal with and had not been focused on alliances. They have stated, however, their intention to join one this year. To be clear, SkyTeam is actively pursuing MH. No need to point out the obvious and say that SkyTeam needs help in SE Asia. EVERYONE knows it and they are working on it.
S America- There are only two options, TAM and Aerolineas Argentinas. TAM is by far the best option. Delta has been pursuing them for years. TAM, however, has strong ties to AA and has been fearful of cutting those ties. (For good reason) Aerolineas is historically a basket case and is in no position at all to enter an alliance. It needs a few years of solid operating performance first.
Unless the FT experts can figure out how to get these stragglers to join SkyTeam, I guess we'll all have to wait until the people who get paid to do it can get it done. In the meantime, you'll have to deal with Associate carriers who add nothing but value.
Now stop complaining!
Oh, and by the way, if Virgin wanted to join an alliance, they'd have done it a long time ago.
A year ago all we heard was how SkyTeam was too small, not enough quality carriers, blah blah blah...
Now, since then, SkyTeam has added three extremely strong global carriers, CO, NW and KL. People still b*tch. No SE Asia carriers, no African carriers no Latin carriers, not enough quality carriers, blah blah blah.
So now SkyTeam adds four new ASSOCIATE carriers. They make no claim that these additions are going to help foster world peace or anything. In fact, the press release clearly indicates that these are tactical additions that should add improved access in certain regions. Thats all. People still b*tch.
Then people start criticizing Delta for these additions. I think it is plainly clear that Delta wasn't the driving force behind any of these additions. So give it a rest.
By the way, for those who are unfamiliar, Kenya Airways and COPA are two of the most respected and well-run airlines in their respective regions. Both have very strong, strategically-located hubs. Air Europa provides great coverage in the only part of Europe where SkyTeam was weak. Tarom doesn't do a lot but make Alitalia happy. The other three are most welcome, however.
Now, is this the end of the story? Of course not. SkyTeam has been very clear for a long time that it actively wants members in SE Asia and S America. It seems that some FT'ers think that quality carriers in these regions grow on trees. Most of the good ones are already affiliated. The fact is, it ain't that easy!
SE Asia- The only legitimate option here is Malaysia Airlines. Until very recently, this carrier has had incredible internal issues to deal with and had not been focused on alliances. They have stated, however, their intention to join one this year. To be clear, SkyTeam is actively pursuing MH. No need to point out the obvious and say that SkyTeam needs help in SE Asia. EVERYONE knows it and they are working on it.
S America- There are only two options, TAM and Aerolineas Argentinas. TAM is by far the best option. Delta has been pursuing them for years. TAM, however, has strong ties to AA and has been fearful of cutting those ties. (For good reason) Aerolineas is historically a basket case and is in no position at all to enter an alliance. It needs a few years of solid operating performance first.
Unless the FT experts can figure out how to get these stragglers to join SkyTeam, I guess we'll all have to wait until the people who get paid to do it can get it done. In the meantime, you'll have to deal with Associate carriers who add nothing but value.
Now stop complaining!
Oh, and by the way, if Virgin wanted to join an alliance, they'd have done it a long time ago.
Very good points, and I agree. Actually, I may rethink Kenyan in particular, as they claim to have flat, horizontal beds in their premium class (anyone who knows me knows that I've developed a fondness for flat, horizontal beds, since I sleep on my side).As per my earlier auto analogy, we have some good Buicks and Mercurys in SkyTeam, but we really need a Jaguar, BMW, or Mercedes. If we had MH, TG, or an equivalent, I'd definitely stop whining. Also, note that Australia is still a challenge on SkyTeam - We've got good coverage everywhere else now (South America seems very well served by Copa, although having to connect in Panama means that sleep time to deep south america (Brasil, Argentina, Chile can be broken up
)