Has anyone had experiences in business/first class seats on several members of the SkyTeam Allicance (in particular, Northwest, Continental, Air France, Delta, and KLM)? For example, how does WorldBusiness Class on a KLM 747 compare to BusinessElite on a Delta 767-300ER? I can find info on the seats, pitch, etc, but what about the overall experience?

I am booking award travel and have a few options, and don't know which ones to target. I know that CO is almost impossible to secure well in advance. Thanks for your thoughts.

I have had some experience... DL BE, KLM WBC, and NW WBC (old & new).

In order of preference based on just the seat & IFE.

NW WBC (new) - almost lie flat, massage, large screen, VOD
KLM WBC - slightly more comfortable than NW's old WBC, ok IFE
NW WBC (old) - great barcolounger chairs but with no real adjustments, ok IFE
DL BE - a few more adjustments, but not suitable for anyone over 6' IMO... i had to prop my feet up on my carryon, ok IFE

I haven't tried CO or AF or KE yet.

I'll go ahead and move this to the SkyTeam forum....

I've now done alot of them: NW(old & New all aircraft), KLM (not new 777), CO 767-300, DL 767-300er, AZ 767, CSA A310

Here is what I think:

# 1 CO - for best overall experience - yes the pitch is only 55" but the food and attitude was great. Also note that AZ and CO only put 5 seats accross ont thier 767's where DL (and KLM) have 6 accross -makes a HUGE difference.

#2 NW 330 - mainly because I can sleep on those seats and the AVOD is way cool. Food is not very good though.

#3 KLM/AZ KLM seats are nicer but the food on AZ is better - though I know many would not be happy about the lack of AVOD on AZ

#4 CSA - small seats and not great pitch but very nice food.

#5 DL /KLM 767- those 767 seats suck, and the food is not very good.

I understand what you mean by "experience" and that is why, to me CO is the best of what I have tried. Please also note that I have not flown AF so I cannot give you much information for them.

I've not flown any business classes across the Atlantic other than DL and AF. The AF flights were on the "old" design so I can't help with the "new". DL BE is much better for me than AF "old" business. The seats are more comfortable with more recline and something always seems to be wrong with the AF video when I fly. The food on AF is better but I like to sleep across the pond and I can't get comfortable in the AF seat. I'm 6 feet and not very wide-bodied. The DL planes are getting frayed but the seats are still better for me. On the other hand, if you can get AF F for only 10K more award miles then it's AF hands down. Their F is terrific with flat seats and wonderful food and service. I've stopped flying DL and AF business class and started flying AF F class. All award miles. No comparison.

This may be too personal, but since you're asking about overall expereince I'll toss it in about DL B/E vs CO B/F

Everyone talks about CO being far superior to DL. I've flown DL many times and recently had the opportunity to fly CO for the first time.

While CO has newer seats and cabin, and maybe better IFE, there was something that I couldn't quite put my finger on that made me uncomfortable on CO.

It was sort of like going to a more expensive restaurant. The dishes might be fancier, the linen on the table a little finer, the tables and chairs more ornate, and the staff a little more proper, but I found the whole atmosphere a little cold and uncomfortable.

CO staff were efficient, but not friendly or warm. The seat was pretty high tech, but I couldn't get comfortable. The pitch was nice, until the guy infront of me reclined into my lap.

DL may be a little rough around the edges, but they really make you (or me at least) feel at home, comfortable and relaxed. They seem responsive instead of following proper protocol. When I'm trying to work, they see and periodically bring coffee, water etc. When I'm getting my drink on , they remember which wine I'm drinking and my wine glass never empty.

Maybe it's because they see my Plat. status on the manifest and treat me better, or to be fair, maybe I just felt a little out of my element on a "foreign" airline, but I really do prefer the DL experience over CO.

Can't add more about the others only to say OLD AF biz = yeech. Will never spend one cent or FF mile more to sit there....okay, maybe one cent... but not much more.

While I see your point, this "at home/comfortable" thing can easily go wrong.

I flew DL AMS-ATL about 4 months ago, and although I was in row 2 was the last one asked which entree I want. I asked as a platinum why this was, and the response was:

"You're on a free ticket. You get last choice."

I never would expect that sort of crass response from CO, even if it was policy. That experience alone will ensure I don't spend money on DL business class and that I'll stick with CO across the pond whenever possible.

Wow. I'd be pretty pissed about that too!

I hope you wrote a letter or something. I have to say that it's never been my experience in B/E, though I have seen that type of attitude in coach.

Come to think of it, I was on a free tix on CO... I wonder if that contributed to my experience...

Yikes! I have four Delta BE tickets one way, and hope that we don't get that kind of treatment. If I could, I would switch to another carrier, but I can't find any award availability on other airlines.

Can anyone share how they were able to get AF first class seats? I have had no success on nwa.com, even looking for one seat for a wide variety of dates way into the future.

Also, thanks to everyone for their input. Quite interesting.

As of right now, you cannot use NW or CO miles to get into AF F. That's because there is no class reciprocity - AF fliers cannot get into non-existent premium cabins on NW or CO.

However, I understand that the new AF J seat is quite good. And they've long been known to have the best food in SkyTeam. Search that forum for more info - I'm sure that there's plenty of comments on the new J class.

Good luck!

Gee, that must have been amazing as generally unless a FA digs in the computer before the flight they have no idea that you have not paid for your seat - as an award (unless of course you were a NRSA, in which case they were perfectly right in telling you what they did whether you are somehow Platinum or not!). NRSA's are supposed to always get last choice on everything.

I agree. I have seen many a DL pax manifest in my time and know that includes last name, first name initial, seat number and status which will also denote non-rev. That's it. How in the world did he/she figure you were on a free ticket unless you were a non-rev?

Just flew AZ IAD-MXP & back in C in 767's.

Over, 7 rows of 2 1 2 seating. Maybe 45-48" spacing. Seat did not go back very far. Wife's seat went back much further as it was broken. Seats felt like they had a board across lower back. Lousy sound system

Back, 5 rows of 1 2 2 seating. 60" spacing(I measured this one). Seats were very confortable, and and went back to at least 80 degrees. All couples got separated, as the booking people did not know how to deal with seats lettered "G". Great sound system.

For both flights. Only a few of the wines listed were available. all food except main courses were quite good, although a few of the pastas were very plain. Main courses were unbelievably bad. Tired, overcooked beef, chicken, and sturegon.

FA's take a 4 hour break in mid flight. C ran out of fizzy water, and the FA's were too lazy to go find more until the arrival snack. Every flight I have ever taken in C before, I had a full water glass, including all the overnighters to Europe. Getting a glass of water from these FA's was painfull.

The sound tape is about 45 minutes, and only has about 6 music channels. Gets very old for a 9 hour entrapment.

I can't tell you how. It was an award ticket (using NW miles) so it definitely wasn't non-rev.

Unless the gate agents in AMS told them, again, I'm not sure.