Doctraveler

I am planning a flight to Paris in a couple of months (during the holiday season) and basically I can connect through Atlanta to AF 777-700/200ER or through DTW on an AF Airbus A-340-300.
I have been reading some reviews of the Premium Voyageur seats and am wondering if they are worth it, particullarly as I read that the seats tend to have less cushion than one would like and are hard on the behind. I was wondering how this compares to regular coach seats on AF? It looks like it's going to be anywhere from $600-1000 more depending on the flight. I know this is just upgraded economy and not business/first but I wonder if people who have used these seats on AF think that they are worth the extra money.
Of course, I survived 15 hours in premium economy on Delta ATL to JNB so anything seems a breeze after that!

Also does anyone have any experience using Skymiles to upgrade on these flight? I checked on ExpertFlyer and very few/none upgrades are available for these flights now. Do they tend to release more as the flights draw nearer and can you use Skymiles to upgrade on AF? It's all somewhat confusing as AF has three classes of service and Delta has two.

Thanks!

mtkeller

I've never flown PV, so I can't advise on that. However, the current state of the DL/AF/KL relationship for upgrades is not at all clear. Any experience prior to September is obsolete, unfortunately.

MSPeconomist

However, if upgrade inventory returns, it apparently will still be true that at best M B Y (and maybe just B or Y, surely Y should work as a SkyTeam upgrade) will upgrade into PV, which would mean paying a lot for this Y+ cabin. Also, at best the higher PV fares will upgrade into Affaires, their business class.

A better way might be to transfer miles from credit cards or hotel programs into FB and upgrade under their program rules using the inventory available to FB program FFers.

Doctraveler

Thanks for the replies.

MSPeconomist - Transferring miles seems like a good idea but my miles are mostly in Delta Skymiles although I do have about a 100k miles in a USBank Visa but I don't think these are transferable to FB (or anywhere else for that matter).
I'm going to call Delta tomorrow and maybe I will get someone on the phone who knows something.

Doctraveler

And another thing... I can go to CDG direct from DTW on Delta and they are showing 8 Z available on Expertflyer BUT Y,B,M fares are much more than discounted business class! So cheaper to buy business class than an upgradable fare. Screwy. I've read numerous posts on this very issue but the first time that I've come across it personally. I mean why does Delta even state that they will do international upgrades for miles when it's clearly illogical if not impossible to do so?
Does it ever happen that one can get a YMB fare cheaper than busienss class and upgrade using miles on a transcontinental flight on Delta?

FFlyerCDG

[QUOTE=Doctraveler;19539723] It looks like it's going to be anywhere from $600-1000 more depending on the flight. I know this is just upgraded economy and not business/first but I wonder if people who have used these seats on AF think that they are worth the extra money.

Tried Premium Voyageur once on the A380.
Slightly more space than in Y, nice blanket and pillow and a quieter cabin but apart from that...
Either with $ or skymiles I think it's absolutely worthless !!!

In my opinion, it's a much better investment to spend 70 Euros for what AF calls a "Siege plus" and on top of that 18 Euros for a gourmet meal and spend the difference in Paris

Cellisttoo

I have flown PV twice to SIN. Once LAX-CDG-SIN and the other time ORD-CDG SIN. I have flown on the 330, 777 and 380. I am 5'5" and my husband is 6'2'. We really found that PV was MUCH more comfortable than regular Y. Both my husband and I are able to sleep very well in PV. I sack out for hours. I am not able to sleep like that in Y. We did buy an inflatable seat pad from REI to use on the flights and were happy to have it. The 380 seats had more mousse (foam) as adverstised on the AF site. I still used my inflatable cushion since I had it with me.

It is not the in the same league as business class for me, but I find that it is quite acceptable. I also thought that the food and wine selections in PV were quite tasty.

You have to prepare yourself for Air French culture shock (this has nothing to do with PV- I have also had ATROCIOUS problems in business class on AF). Service it not like on a U.S. airline if things go wrong. ORD-CDG the PV cabin was completely full after they did on board upgrades of AF personnel. Soon after we took off I discovered that my in flight entertainment system was broken, my reading lamp was broken, call buttons did not work and my overhead light was broken. My daughter's IFE was working, but the noisecancelling headphones were not. I got little more than an I am sorry, there is nothing that I can do as the flight is full. After much complaining, they finally offered me a 50 euro gift certificate for duty free shopping.

Our luggage was misrouted to Beirut Lebanon and Hong Kong and we received it 5 days after arriving. In the meantime, if I tried to call to get status, they were sorry, but there was nothing that they could tell me.

In the end, we did get it back and they reimbursed us for reasonable incidentals (about $250 for 3 people for 5 days). So, really, there is nothing to complain about- just not particularly customer friendly (frustrating).

You have to cross your fingers nothing goes wrong, and put on your Paris culture hat on, if something does.

Despite this, I recommended PV to my parents and I would definitely fly it again. It is so wonderful to arrive well rested and ready to go. I would advise if you do decide to invest in PV to pick a flight that leaves late in the evening. This way, you can utilize more of the flight time for sleeping. If you are just going to sit awake, Y is perfectly adequate.

rmorales

Just came back from CDG-EZE on a 777 in PV, and it's much better than regular Y. I would recommend to anyone taking a long trip. The cabin is really quiet, and you have much more space.

You arrive much more rested than flying in Y, I think is totally worth it when the price is not too much. Seats have more room to stretch, although they won't recline so much.

Service was good as always, and you get served before Y so all the options are available.

cityflyer369

I am a big fan of Prem Voy, too. I have not flown Economy on AF since Prem Voy came out. For me, it's worth the extra money, in particular when you factor in the extra miles.

mattyb2233

How are AF Business class seats? I am accustom to flying delta...

MSPeconomist

They're generally angled lie-flat. Many aircraft have the 2-3-2 configuration in business class, so there are middle seats.

Goldorak

B772 and 77W are 2-3-2
Airbus fleet (A332, A343, A388) is all 2-2-2
B744 : front cabin (nose) is 2-2, rear cabin is 2-2-2

fb175091

I just posted my opinion on PV in the thread on PV in the Skyteam forum:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/skyte...-review-6.html

Only after that I checked the various threads in the FB forum:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-f...-af-worth.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-f...-voyageur.html

and this one and I was surprised about the rather different conclusions in these threads.

I still think that the seat was one of the least comfortable seats that I have ever been in, even though I had lots of leg room and a nicely wide seat. But somehow everything else didn't fit: the leg rest didn't even touch my legs when I was sitting normally; when I moved down to use the leg rest, the head rest would be in the way and bend my head. I was in fact thinking about asking the cabin crew whether I could move to a seat in the Y cabin, but the flight was pretty full, and I suppose a middle seat in Y, non-exit row would still have been worse...