Exasperation forces move for the better from SQ to CX
#1
Original Poster




Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New Zealand
Programs: *A NZ Gold Elite for over 20 years previously SQ PPS and UA 1K
Posts: 293
After many years of loyally supporting SQ I finally gave up due to:
1. An ability to get confirmed F seats with constant waitlists as contract fares are considered and treated by SQ not as volume discounts but as distressed inventory sales. If they can get $5 more from somone off the street rather than a loyal customer they will. Ok, not my idea of good business but it sure is their perogative.
2. Inability to get F seats on A380's for less than Double the fare of a 747 F seat. As the London flights have switched to A380 they have insisted on a huge fare premium of 200% or so whilst allowing an extra 6% or so miles. Time will tell whether its worth 6% more or 100% more. I suspect by the time they capitulate it will have cost them a lot of customers!
3. Constant devaluation of the Frequent flyer program. Funny how its never degraded only changed! The current sales are a step in the right direction so some kudos but still no recognition of loyalty from their loyalty program!
So I gave up and afetr much consideration finally changed to Cathay and yesterday did my first CX flight in over 20 years, a Business class sector AKL-HKG.
Overall impression (admittedly after a sample of only one flight and as the head flight attendant welcomed me on my first flight I must assume that care was taken with the first sector to get things right) very good.
To be fair SQ is a great airline in the air, but so is Cathay and I would rate some aspects such as business class Food, Amenity kits and Beverage selections as significantly better. I'll wait to see how F compares, but I would expect just fine.
However what turned it for me was what happens on the ground.
With CX more flexibility, no more waitlists, two late evening departures out of London instead of the mad dash to make SQ's one 747 (soon to be 777) departure at 6pm. As a bonus also the fares are lower than my SQ contract rates.
I would also have to say the CX ground staff I dealt with were very good to deal with. SQ's local people were also very good but had their hands tied with rigid head office rules. The CX people seemed to have more flexibility locally.
Its not all perfection. CX's people have warned me getting availability of frequent flyer seats with them is a pain. But so far I'm impressed.
They have done what they said they would without exception including confirming a lot of forward booking seats, including a few last minute changes on this trip with no availability issues.
The service has been as good overall if not better than SQ's.
So here is the final rub. If SQ matched everything CX have done would I now switch back. No, I don't think I would.
I enjoyed my time with SQ, if it hadn't been for their rigidity causing me endless hassles I would not have looked around.
But having done so I'm glad I did.
I wish SQ well, its a great airline. But I feel its lost its customer focus, which is a real shame. I hope it finds it again soon!
1. An ability to get confirmed F seats with constant waitlists as contract fares are considered and treated by SQ not as volume discounts but as distressed inventory sales. If they can get $5 more from somone off the street rather than a loyal customer they will. Ok, not my idea of good business but it sure is their perogative.
2. Inability to get F seats on A380's for less than Double the fare of a 747 F seat. As the London flights have switched to A380 they have insisted on a huge fare premium of 200% or so whilst allowing an extra 6% or so miles. Time will tell whether its worth 6% more or 100% more. I suspect by the time they capitulate it will have cost them a lot of customers!
3. Constant devaluation of the Frequent flyer program. Funny how its never degraded only changed! The current sales are a step in the right direction so some kudos but still no recognition of loyalty from their loyalty program!
So I gave up and afetr much consideration finally changed to Cathay and yesterday did my first CX flight in over 20 years, a Business class sector AKL-HKG.
Overall impression (admittedly after a sample of only one flight and as the head flight attendant welcomed me on my first flight I must assume that care was taken with the first sector to get things right) very good.
To be fair SQ is a great airline in the air, but so is Cathay and I would rate some aspects such as business class Food, Amenity kits and Beverage selections as significantly better. I'll wait to see how F compares, but I would expect just fine.
However what turned it for me was what happens on the ground.
With CX more flexibility, no more waitlists, two late evening departures out of London instead of the mad dash to make SQ's one 747 (soon to be 777) departure at 6pm. As a bonus also the fares are lower than my SQ contract rates.
I would also have to say the CX ground staff I dealt with were very good to deal with. SQ's local people were also very good but had their hands tied with rigid head office rules. The CX people seemed to have more flexibility locally.
Its not all perfection. CX's people have warned me getting availability of frequent flyer seats with them is a pain. But so far I'm impressed.
They have done what they said they would without exception including confirming a lot of forward booking seats, including a few last minute changes on this trip with no availability issues.
The service has been as good overall if not better than SQ's.
So here is the final rub. If SQ matched everything CX have done would I now switch back. No, I don't think I would.
I enjoyed my time with SQ, if it hadn't been for their rigidity causing me endless hassles I would not have looked around.
But having done so I'm glad I did.
I wish SQ well, its a great airline. But I feel its lost its customer focus, which is a real shame. I hope it finds it again soon!
#3
Join Date: Jun 2008
Programs: TK*G (E+), IHG Plat Ambassador
Posts: 7,884
Kiwi_FF, just a warning from a former oneWorld Emerald (top elite) member: unless there were some changes, if you are based in AU/NZ CX will ask you to join QF FF and not its own FF program. To achive any status on oneWorld using QF FF, you will have to fly at least 4 QF/JetStar-operated flights every year. Otherwise you will not have any status awarded (no extra bonus miles etc.). There is CX Marco Polo Club, but it is a kind of status and not mileage program.
#4
FlyerTalk Evangelist



Join Date: May 2000
Location: Little dot in Asia
Programs: AA-PP, HL-DM, MR-LTP, HY-LTG
Posts: 26,008
Kiwi_FF, just a warning from a former oneWorld Emerald (top elite) member: unless there were some changes, if you are based in AU/NZ CX will ask you to join QF FF and not its own FF program. To achive any status on oneWorld using QF FF, you will have to fly at least 4 QF/JetStar-operated flights every year. Otherwise you will not have any status awarded (no extra bonus miles etc.). There is CX Marco Polo Club, but it is a kind of status and not mileage program.
MPC is the loyalty programme, but its award arm is Asiamiles.
#5
FlyerTalk Evangelist



Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: New York, NY, USA
Posts: 12,782
#6
Original Poster




Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New Zealand
Programs: *A NZ Gold Elite for over 20 years previously SQ PPS and UA 1K
Posts: 293
FF program
No problem enrolling in Aisa Miles online and they then did a status march for Marco Polo Club.
Overall its been a very good experience and the flexibility and absence of waitlists has made my travel planning a lot easier.
Overall its been a very good experience and the flexibility and absence of waitlists has made my travel planning a lot easier.
#7




Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Singapore
Programs: SQ *G, BA Silver, Bonvoy LFT Titanium , Hyatt Globalist, ALL Diamond
Posts: 673
As an ex-PPS who suffered the same exasperation, I can honestly say that dealing with CX has been a breeze. Now a DM, I enjoy many of the unpublished benefits, including them going to great length to get me confirmed upgrade and companion redemption.
You will also find many upgrades thrown your way as you go up the ladder. While I can count on the number of UG on SQ on the fingers of one hand, I have lost count of the number of UG on CX.
CX does know how to treat its pax well.
You will also find many upgrades thrown your way as you go up the ladder. While I can count on the number of UG on SQ on the fingers of one hand, I have lost count of the number of UG on CX.
CX does know how to treat its pax well.
#8
FlyerTalk Evangelist



Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold/OW emerald, QR
Posts: 16,963
I am not a member of CX or SQ FFPs. But I use both extensively on longhaul (and CX also on regional). I understand the frustration with some aspects of either airline/FFP. But IMO both CX & SQ are outstanding airlines compared to most others. The CX forum has many op complaining about some aspects of CX and DM status (a few threads on the benefits of DM), and the general impression when you read the CX forum is that SQ is superior, although I find it more expensive. Eventhough I am not PPS or DM (but BA emerald and BD Gold), I have found both airlines to be responsive to my needs and problems. I use BAEC coz 1) I fly also in Europe 2) BA FFP is more generous than CX 3)BA treats is top customers well. But on the small OW alliance I found that other OW airlines tend to recognize Emeralds and treat them OK, plus you get F lounge access worldwide. On the huge *A, there seems to be little recognition by other airlines and no F lounge access. That suggests giving priority to a OW FFP like BA or CX.
#9




Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Programs: Star Alliance, One World, Skyteam, BR, GA, EK, VX, SPG, Marriott, Hyatt, Hilton, IC
Posts: 4,066
Well, have fun with your choice!
I'm a die-hard SQ Fan--Atic.. I've been able to get very reasonable prices with them, and so far I have no regrets.. We all have our reasons!
I'm a die-hard SQ Fan--Atic.. I've been able to get very reasonable prices with them, and so far I have no regrets.. We all have our reasons!
#10




Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: China
Posts: 1,646
Yep, IMHO CX outside HK is more flexible that SQ outside Singapore. Both can be equally rigid in their home markets...
A CX DM who can obtain a good working relationship with a local CX sales office can get a lot acheived.
A CX DM who can obtain a good working relationship with a local CX sales office can get a lot acheived.
#11




Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,643
I think the OP did the right thing - I am shifting my business away from SQ as well. We all can return when they have learned their lessons... In the interim, there are more airlines that give you a great flight experience and it really sucks that the good experience on SQ is limited to the time you spent in the air...
#12
FlyerTalk Evangelist



Join Date: May 2000
Location: Little dot in Asia
Programs: AA-PP, HL-DM, MR-LTP, HY-LTG
Posts: 26,008
It'll even be better if we all can write to SQ Customer Services and tell them each time we book on another airline when we could have booked with SQ.
Wonder how effective it is to write to the Straits Times blog?
Wonder how effective it is to write to the Straits Times blog?
#13


Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: PHL, NYC, DC
Posts: 9,763
my dad got tired of PPS after 10 years and decided to go back to CX..... then here's the next catch...he found out on HKG-TPE flights on BR Business class is 1/2 the price of CX..... and my mom found out SQ discount tickets from HKG - SIN is about S$200 RT as compared to $350-400 from SIN and similar deals on SQ to LHR from HKG........... makes you wonder eh!
#14
FlyerTalk Evangelist



Join Date: May 2000
Location: Little dot in Asia
Programs: AA-PP, HL-DM, MR-LTP, HY-LTG
Posts: 26,008
my dad got tired of PPS after 10 years and decided to go back to CX..... then here's the next catch...he found out on HKG-TPE flights on BR Business class is 1/2 the price of CX..... and my mom found out SQ discount tickets from HKG - SIN is about S$200 RT as compared to $350-400 from SIN and similar deals on SQ to LHR from HKG........... makes you wonder eh! 

Fares ex-HKG on CX will always be more expensive than others. Hence HKG=TPE will be cheaper on BR/CI than CX. But ex-TPE, CX will be cheaper than the other two. SQ is CX 's biggest competitor so that's why SQ will undercut CX's fares ex-HKG.
#15
FlyerTalk Evangelist



Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Benicia, California, USA
Programs: AA PLT,AS,UA PLAT,PP,J6,FB,EY,LH,SQ,HH Gld,Hyatt Disc,Marriott Plat,IHG Plat
Posts: 11,007
Though I don't fly either SQ or CX as much as (admittedly very, very inferior) US-based carriers, my default when I fly one of them trans-Pacific (always in J) a few times a year is CX. As others have noted, CX is much easier to deal with on the ground. To pick just one of several experiences, trying to book an SQ/Virgin RTW J class was such a hassle that I simply gave up. Plus as a OW Emerald CX treats me much better (including occasional upgrades to F) than SQ does for my equivalent status with *A.

