Driving in Europe
#31
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,739
Your previous statement was:
Originally Posted by pred02
Europeans are more aggressive, but at the same time more attentitve drivers then <sic> Americans
#32


Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 870
I'd say your own description of Boston shows that is untrue. The rude driving you describe is incredibly aggressive, and it requires a great deal of attentiveness to perform such maneuvers successfully. It's terrible, but just as "aggressive" as that you might find in Europe.
In Europe, I have more faith to the other drivers of the road, and I find more time making sure that my judgments are correct. Judgments such as how fast I am driving going into a sharp turn, or if I will have enough time to pass another car by going into the opposite lane with head on traffic.
Let me give you an example. I was driving in a Eastern European country. I had to pass in opposite lane. As I begin passing the truck, the driver knows that I am passing him (going into opposite lane, head on traffic) and he slows down. When he saw that it's a tight scissors pass he slowed down so I could pass adequately. When I tried this maneuver in Maine, the person I was passing was pissed off I was passing them (even though they were driving 40 mph on a 55 mph road) and when I began opposite lane passing (with proper signaling) they speed up so I could not pass them. With head on traffic this is dangerous. The other person was shocked I would do that and offended. However, everything I did was legal. The markings were stripped (which means I could pass) and he was driving below the speed limit. But he did not realize that he created a dangerous situation for me.
Sure they are subjective, but so are everyones.
To add to the subject:
1) In Europe, you have to know the proper road marking legislation. Speed limits are not always posted as they are in the US. For example, if you are driving on a rural road, there is know speed limit for such road (like 60 KM/H). Other roads have 80 KM/H. The big "Speed limit 60 km/h" sign is not going to be there. You have to judge and know what type of road you are on. Secondly, the markings of other signs as well are unknown to most Americans. These also vary from a country to a country. In the US, it's usually clearly spelled out SPEED LIMIT, STOP, etc. In Europe, it is not.
2) Enforcement - the bulk of road enforcement is based on a quota system. In 90% cases you find cops giving tickets on highways. In Europe, cops tend to be a lot more careful as to other rules. For example, turning without signaling, or pulling out of the gas station in the opposite lane. In the US, everyone does it, in Europe if a cop sees you doing it you are pulled over. Passing is always done on the left, never on left and right (unlike the US). And you cannot go to the most left hand lane (continental Europe, not the UK) and drive 70mph on cruise control. On highways, there are lanes for cruising and then lanes for passing. In the US, everyone does what they want. In Europe, a cop would pull you over if he sees you in the left hand lane just cruising along.
There are differences between US and Europe driving. This does not mean that a US driver cannot drive in Europe and vice-versa. But there are little adjustments. I don't want to discourage American drivers from driving in Europe, but just be more attentive and cautious.
All of this is purely subjective.
Last edited by pred02; Mar 28, 2007 at 10:29 am
#33
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,739
So your prior statement that "Europeans are more aggressive" is untrue.
Well, drivers should be attentive and cautious wherever they are.
Actually your description that in Boston one needs to be careful to "anticipate" the actions of others would argue that driving there requires more caution rather than less, if anything.
Actually your description that in Boston one needs to be careful to "anticipate" the actions of others would argue that driving there requires more caution rather than less, if anything.
#34
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My comment was in response to your (empirically untrue) comment that Europe is more "scenic and hilly." It's not.
#35
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To get back on topic, let me throw in a few experiences...
1) Roads in Europe are a little bit more narrow and this takes a little getting used to. When road work is being done on the autobahn, for example, the road crews will further narrow the (for example) three driving lanes into three lanes driving where two lanes used to be (I hope that came out sensible).
2) I usually always get a stick shift. The last time I rented a car in England, however, I went with the automatic, only because I wanted to concentrate on driving on the left side of the road (which was already somewhat uncomfortable) and not have to also 'learn' how to shift with my other hand, drive on the other side of the car, etc.
3) Some rental car companies will only allow certain types of cars into former eastern bloc countries. The last time I rented a car in MUC, I was given a MB A180, but had to sign a paper saying I would not drive it into Czech, Poland or Italy.
4) Become familiar with the road signs. They are not altogether different, but it takes a little getting used to. Obey the pedestrian in the crosswalks areas.
5) Parking spaces are significantly smaller than in the US. Be prepared. I usually just parked the car in town (like at the bahnhof), and then public transport around town.
1) Roads in Europe are a little bit more narrow and this takes a little getting used to. When road work is being done on the autobahn, for example, the road crews will further narrow the (for example) three driving lanes into three lanes driving where two lanes used to be (I hope that came out sensible).
2) I usually always get a stick shift. The last time I rented a car in England, however, I went with the automatic, only because I wanted to concentrate on driving on the left side of the road (which was already somewhat uncomfortable) and not have to also 'learn' how to shift with my other hand, drive on the other side of the car, etc.
3) Some rental car companies will only allow certain types of cars into former eastern bloc countries. The last time I rented a car in MUC, I was given a MB A180, but had to sign a paper saying I would not drive it into Czech, Poland or Italy.
4) Become familiar with the road signs. They are not altogether different, but it takes a little getting used to. Obey the pedestrian in the crosswalks areas.
5) Parking spaces are significantly smaller than in the US. Be prepared. I usually just parked the car in town (like at the bahnhof), and then public transport around town.
#36




Join Date: May 2005
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 5,011
As for renting a car in one country and dropping it off in another: we needed to do that, and found by far the best rate was with Hertz. The base rate was higher, but by booking it through AAA we did not have to pay a drop fee, so in the end there was a considerable savings.
#37
In memoriam
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Near Jacksonville FL
Posts: 3,987
I think there are several generalizations you can make about driving in Europe. First is that in many countries - it's as if there are two road systems superimposed on one another. There's the motorway/autobahn/autostrade road system. Like US interstates - with some - sometimes major - differences (much higher speeds in Germany for example). Then - at the opposite end of the spectrum - there's the Michelin "brown" road system (the little tiny roads that frequently link one quaint town with another). You can find roads similar to this in the US - but I doubt you'll ever find "brown roads" in the US that are like some in Europe (those 1 1/2 lane 2 way roads with stone walls on both sides - like some in Devonshire in the UK for example).
You can drive a lot of intimidating mountain roads in Europe - like along the coast of Norway. You can find similar roads in the US - for example - smaller roads in the Rocky Mountains - but a lot of US drivers have no experience with roads like that.
So I guess when it comes to driving - it depends where you'll be driving - and how comfortable you are with that type of driving. My husband happens to hate heights - and I don't think he'll ever be driving the coast of Norway or small mountain roads in Colorado again. So pick roads you're comfortable with.
You also have to keep in mind that on high speed roads in Europe - the left lane is definitely a passing lane - not for "slow and lows" who like to go the speed limit in the left lane (like they do on I-95 in Florida). If you do that in Europe - you will wind up with a Mercedes 5 inches away from your rear bumper. Which is appropriate. Florida will eventually pass the twice or thrice proposed "road rage law" - which officially makes the left lane a passing lane.
Navigating is a whole 'nother story (I'm the family navigator). I have never driven in Europe with a GPS. I understand they are now widely available in rental cars - and - having used rental cars in the US with them for quite a few years - I recommend them highly. It really isn't a lot of fun trying to figure out road signs in a language you don't command. And it is almost impossible to do after dark in the countryside (which I wouldn't recommend in a strange area anywhere with or without a GPS).
A GPS might have prevented some of our traffic disasters. Like arriving in a city in Switzerland (can't remember whether it was Geneva or Zurich). Our hotel was near the top of a hill. And every time we tried to go up the hill - we wound up on a one way street down the hill. So we went up a particular street we hadn't tried before - and found ourselves on a "trolley only" street - with trolleys going both ways at high speeds. I thought we were going to die (if we weren't hit by a trolley - the crowds of Swiss shouting " stupid morons" in French - or maybe it was German - would have killed us). Which is why we take trains these days
.FWIW - if you are driving in any country with a lot of military checkpoints (this doesn't apply to western Europe - don't know about the east - we've encountered this in the middle east in places like Egypt) - it is best to hire a local driver who speaks the language. Anyway - these are just some random thoughts about driving outside the US. Robyn
#38
In memoriam
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Near Jacksonville FL
Posts: 3,987
One important thing I forgot to mention. DUI laws vary a lot - but there is more than a reasonable amount of zero tolerance both in the US and in Europe (and zero tolerance can mean one beer or less). If you drink - don't drive. Hire a driver. Robyn
#39
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Dunno if this was mentioned but
when you are taveling into Poland (or generally in the EU) you are required to have a "green card" which is basic insurance. Make sure you get this, or you would have to purchase this (and Im guessing every boarder crossing) but once you get it from the rent-a-car, it should cover all of EU
Geico does have Europe auto insurance (country by country though) Amex plat also has insurance (which with extra fee can be primary ) and alcohol limits is very strict. 0.02 on Poland, so be careful. Make sure you got a international drivers license (from AAA)
when you are taveling into Poland (or generally in the EU) you are required to have a "green card" which is basic insurance. Make sure you get this, or you would have to purchase this (and Im guessing every boarder crossing) but once you get it from the rent-a-car, it should cover all of EU
Geico does have Europe auto insurance (country by country though) Amex plat also has insurance (which with extra fee can be primary ) and alcohol limits is very strict. 0.02 on Poland, so be careful. Make sure you got a international drivers license (from AAA)
#40
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Central Texas
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Renting a car in Europe is easy as most of the posts convey.
Returning a car in another country (or even city) comes with a high premium.
Unmentioned surprisingly, is that many older European cities have "no fly" zones, large areas of the central city in which private cars may not be driven. In most cities there are only 3 parking places in any block and 4 cars driving aound that block searching for them.
Rural driving is pleasant and rewarding, although for the inexperienced high speed autoroutes can be daunting.
Returning a car in another country (or even city) comes with a high premium.
Unmentioned surprisingly, is that many older European cities have "no fly" zones, large areas of the central city in which private cars may not be driven. In most cities there are only 3 parking places in any block and 4 cars driving aound that block searching for them.
Rural driving is pleasant and rewarding, although for the inexperienced high speed autoroutes can be daunting.
#41
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C - you can drive, but its paid parking on the street
B - only with a sticker or doctor. Huge fine if caught. And there are a few streets, and even one 30m part outside the old city, which is tricky.
A - Emergency cars, owners of the buildings which can only be from 10pm-9am, with 20min max parking and need special papers. A
And they don't make any exceptions.
#42
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,739
Your experience isn't all that unusual. The congestion varies by area, but among the first few words of German learned by some visitors are "Stau" and "Baustelle".
#43
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Also like others mentioned, if you plan to drive only mainly in the major cities, I would not rent a car. public transportation in Europe is amazing. Here in Krakow with constructions and congestion, I can get on a tram from my apartment to the town center in about 7min, with a tram every 5min. Car wise would take 20-25min, not counting time spent looking to park and the parking fees (which can get pricy)
#44
In memoriam
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Near Jacksonville FL
Posts: 3,987
Renting a car in Europe is easy as most of the posts convey.
Returning a car in another country (or even city) comes with a high premium.
Unmentioned surprisingly, is that many older European cities have "no fly" zones, large areas of the central city in which private cars may not be driven. In most cities there are only 3 parking places in any block and 4 cars driving aound that block searching for them.
Rural driving is pleasant and rewarding, although for the inexperienced high speed autoroutes can be daunting.
Returning a car in another country (or even city) comes with a high premium.
Unmentioned surprisingly, is that many older European cities have "no fly" zones, large areas of the central city in which private cars may not be driven. In most cities there are only 3 parking places in any block and 4 cars driving aound that block searching for them.
Rural driving is pleasant and rewarding, although for the inexperienced high speed autoroutes can be daunting.
).And I agree with everyone who has spoken about trains. They are simply the best way to travel within and between urban areas.
One thing I forgot to mention about liability insurance. If you are a person who carries a lot of insurance at home to protect yourself - because you have assets - and aren't poor - you'll need it abroad too. If you are in an at-fault accident in Poland - you may be thinking - well that person isn't worth a lot in Polish courts. But the survivors can sue you where you live - maybe Los Angeles. And suddenly that person is worth a whole lot more. So if you think you need $1 million in liability insurance at home in Los Angeles - don't think that the minimum you get from the rental company - which could be $10,000 - will cut it. Robyn
#45


Join Date: Apr 2006
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One thing I forgot to mention about liability insurance. If you are a person who carries a lot of insurance at home to protect yourself - because you have assets - and aren't poor - you'll need it abroad too. If you are in an at-fault accident in Poland - you may be thinking - well that person isn't worth a lot in Polish courts. But the survivors can sue you where you live - maybe Los Angeles. And suddenly that person is worth a whole lot more. So if you think you need $1 million in liability insurance at home in Los Angeles - don't think that the minimum you get from the rental company - which could be $10,000 - will cut it. Robyn
In the following circumstances:
Nationality of driver: U.S.
Nationality of accident victim: Poland
Place of accident: Poland
the plaintiff may be able to sue the defendant in some court in the United States, but the law that court will apply is the law of the place of the accident, i.e. Poland.Nationality of accident victim: Poland
Place of accident: Poland
That's not to say one should not carry adequate insurance, but just correcting how the amount of liability is calculated.
Ask your insurance agent or broker when was the last time he or she heard of Eastern Europeans coming to the United States to sue over a car accident? Better yet, what kind of judgment did they win and collect?

