Jan 1, 2014, 9:23 pm
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
Presented as Q&A format (Originally posted by Alex_B)
Q: What is a stopover?
A: A stopover on an international itinerary is any break in your air travel for more than 24 hours except at the destination.
Q: What is an open-jaw?
A: An open-jaw is where you travel by your own means (either land, sea or a separate air ticket) between two points in a journey.
Q: How many stopovers am I allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: One stopover is permitted (an unlimited number of stops less than 24hours is allowable).
Q: How many open-jaws are allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: Two open-jaws are permitted. These must be at the stopover, destination or origin.
Q: Can I have a stopover or open-jaw on a one-way award?
A: No
Q: Can I have a open-jaw at both the stopover and destination?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this
Q: Can I transit my destination multiple times (e.g. fly to JNB, fly to CPT and then return home via JNB)?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this. You can only stop in your destination for > 24 hours once though.
Q: Can I cross both oceans?
A: Yes. The rule that prohibited crossing both oceans appears to have been removed from both MP and *A award rules. There are many many successful examples of people booking these itineraries.
Q: Is EWR-PVG transatlantic or transpacific?
A: US-East Asia/South East Asia is always transpacific no matter what geography might suggest.
Q: Do I pay more for a stopover or open-jaw?
A: Typically no additional mileage is required but additional taxes or fees are often payable (especially in UK with high Air Passenger Duty). Extra mileage will often be required if an open-jaw or stopover adds a higher cost region into the itinerary. Also awards wholly within CONUS, Canada and Alaska (formerly known as Series 0 awards) require additional mileage (10K miles) for a stopover of >4 hrs.
Q: What's this about a free one-way I can get on awards?
A: The concept of free one-ways is a misnomer and often confuses people, it is better to consider it a stopover in the city of origin. If you have a simple roundtrip award without a stopover, you can often create a stopover and open-jaw at your origin on the return leg to add an addition flight. E.g. I wish to book EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR which is a roundtrip US-Europe award. I could also book this as EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR (stopover)-SFO for the same mileage (and a few dollars of extra tax). The EWR segment would need to be within 330 days of booking and would be subject to the usual change fees.
Update1: Recent reports suggest that a stopover at origin is no longer permitted, which closes the free one-way option.
Update2: added SO/OJ at origin on two PNRs (identical in routing) with two different agents on 7/6/14 without any issues/questions.
Q: When I try to book my OJ itinerary online, the website errors out. Does that mean there is something wrong with my itinerary?
A: Not necessarily. The website typically can't handle complex itineraries. These must generally be called in.
Other notes:
The open-jaw portion must be smaller (in miles) than any other leg. -While technically true for revenue fare construction this is not strictly enforced on awards.
For awards between CONUS/Canada/Alaska and South Asia award regions the maximum number of segments is 5 segments each way on a round-trip and 4 segments on a one-way. (Note that many FTers report recently being read a memo that imposes an eight segment maximum on a roundtrip (4 each way). It is unclear whether this eight-segment maximum is limited to South Asia routings through Europe or North Asia, or has broader application.)
Stopovers and open-jaws are NOT additive. You do not get extra stops included in your itinerary simply by making an open-jaw out of it.
Seeing your fare construction on an already booked award ticket:
In order to see your award fare construction to see where your stopovers and destination are, follow these steps.
Go to http://www.saudiairlines.com/
Then hit "Manage My Bookings" and select "E-Ticket"
Enter your UA ticket number (hint: 016 will go in the first box, and then everything else in the second box). Then your last name and hit "Retrieve My Booking". On the next page you'll see a line like this under "Fare Calculation":
CHI LH X/FRA LH ROM0.00CSM/YB52 /- FLR LH X/FRA LH X/DUS LH CHI UA SEA
This example is:
ORD-FRA-FCO
Open Jaw at Destination
FLR-FRA-DUS-ORD
Stopover at origin
ORD-SEA
Previous thread on this topic:
Rules for Open Jaw & Stopover Award Flights (Consolidated)
Q: What is a stopover?
A: A stopover on an international itinerary is any break in your air travel for more than 24 hours except at the destination.
Q: What is an open-jaw?
A: An open-jaw is where you travel by your own means (either land, sea or a separate air ticket) between two points in a journey.
Q: How many stopovers am I allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: One stopover is permitted (an unlimited number of stops less than 24hours is allowable).
Q: How many open-jaws are allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: Two open-jaws are permitted. These must be at the stopover, destination or origin.
Q: Can I have a stopover or open-jaw on a one-way award?
A: No
Q: Can I have a open-jaw at both the stopover and destination?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this
Q: Can I transit my destination multiple times (e.g. fly to JNB, fly to CPT and then return home via JNB)?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this. You can only stop in your destination for > 24 hours once though.
Q: Can I cross both oceans?
A: Yes. The rule that prohibited crossing both oceans appears to have been removed from both MP and *A award rules. There are many many successful examples of people booking these itineraries.
Q: Is EWR-PVG transatlantic or transpacific?
A: US-East Asia/South East Asia is always transpacific no matter what geography might suggest.
Q: Do I pay more for a stopover or open-jaw?
A: Typically no additional mileage is required but additional taxes or fees are often payable (especially in UK with high Air Passenger Duty). Extra mileage will often be required if an open-jaw or stopover adds a higher cost region into the itinerary. Also awards wholly within CONUS, Canada and Alaska (formerly known as Series 0 awards) require additional mileage (10K miles) for a stopover of >4 hrs.
Q: What's this about a free one-way I can get on awards?
A: The concept of free one-ways is a misnomer and often confuses people, it is better to consider it a stopover in the city of origin. If you have a simple roundtrip award without a stopover, you can often create a stopover and open-jaw at your origin on the return leg to add an addition flight. E.g. I wish to book EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR which is a roundtrip US-Europe award. I could also book this as EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR (stopover)-SFO for the same mileage (and a few dollars of extra tax). The EWR segment would need to be within 330 days of booking and would be subject to the usual change fees.
Update1: Recent reports suggest that a stopover at origin is no longer permitted, which closes the free one-way option.
Update2: added SO/OJ at origin on two PNRs (identical in routing) with two different agents on 7/6/14 without any issues/questions.
Q: When I try to book my OJ itinerary online, the website errors out. Does that mean there is something wrong with my itinerary?
A: Not necessarily. The website typically can't handle complex itineraries. These must generally be called in.
Other notes:
The open-jaw portion must be smaller (in miles) than any other leg. -While technically true for revenue fare construction this is not strictly enforced on awards.
For awards between CONUS/Canada/Alaska and South Asia award regions the maximum number of segments is 5 segments each way on a round-trip and 4 segments on a one-way. (Note that many FTers report recently being read a memo that imposes an eight segment maximum on a roundtrip (4 each way). It is unclear whether this eight-segment maximum is limited to South Asia routings through Europe or North Asia, or has broader application.)
Stopovers and open-jaws are NOT additive. You do not get extra stops included in your itinerary simply by making an open-jaw out of it.
Seeing your fare construction on an already booked award ticket:
In order to see your award fare construction to see where your stopovers and destination are, follow these steps.
Go to http://www.saudiairlines.com/
Then hit "Manage My Bookings" and select "E-Ticket"
Enter your UA ticket number (hint: 016 will go in the first box, and then everything else in the second box). Then your last name and hit "Retrieve My Booking". On the next page you'll see a line like this under "Fare Calculation":
CHI LH X/FRA LH ROM0.00CSM/YB52 /- FLR LH X/FRA LH X/DUS LH CHI UA SEA
This example is:
ORD-FRA-FCO
Open Jaw at Destination
FLR-FRA-DUS-ORD
Stopover at origin
ORD-SEA
Previous thread on this topic:
Rules for Open Jaw & Stopover Award Flights (Consolidated)
Consolidated: Rules for Open Jaw & Stopover Award Flights [2014]
Jun 12, 2014 | 5:04 pm
#586
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AA EXP; UA 1MM & PP; Marriott AMB; Hyatt Globalist; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 62,158
Sorry, here's the full routing:
Sep 3rd: PDX-IAH-IST-DLM
Sep 10: BJV-IST-BEY
Sep 20: BEY-FRA-IAD-PDX
funny thing is that I just booked my wife the following and it worked so I'm not sure it has to do with the fact that IST is part of the transit more than once:
Sep 3rd: PDX-IAH-IST-DLM
Sep 10: BJV-IST-LAX
Sep 12: LAX-PDX
thx again
Sep 3rd: PDX-IAH-IST-DLM
Sep 10: BJV-IST-BEY
Sep 20: BEY-FRA-IAD-PDX
funny thing is that I just booked my wife the following and it worked so I'm not sure it has to do with the fact that IST is part of the transit more than once:
Sep 3rd: PDX-IAH-IST-DLM
Sep 10: BJV-IST-LAX
Sep 12: LAX-PDX
thx again
Jun 12, 2014 | 5:27 pm
#587
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 31
Kacee, thx for the reply!!! and forgive me for being slow...
I thought my OJ is BJV (just like my wife's) and my Stopover is BEY (hers is LAX) or am I missing something?
Might the issue be that BEY is further east than BJV and the rule is that I have to be flying back west or something?
thx again
I thought my OJ is BJV (just like my wife's) and my Stopover is BEY (hers is LAX) or am I missing something?
Might the issue be that BEY is further east than BJV and the rule is that I have to be flying back west or something?
thx again
Jun 12, 2014 | 5:49 pm
#588
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AA EXP; UA 1MM & PP; Marriott AMB; Hyatt Globalist; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 62,158
Kacee, thx for the reply!!! and forgive me for being slow...
I thought my OJ is BJV (just like my wife's) and my Stopover is BEY (hers is LAX) or am I missing something?
Might the issue be that BEY is further east than BJV and the rule is that I have to be flying back west or something?
thx again
I thought my OJ is BJV (just like my wife's) and my Stopover is BEY (hers is LAX) or am I missing something?
Might the issue be that BEY is further east than BJV and the rule is that I have to be flying back west or something?
thx again
There is no rule against traveling backwards.
Jun 12, 2014 | 11:09 pm
#589
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 31
Thx Kacee, finally got it booked with an agent who was willing to go talk to someone in their group who knows about this stuff. Turns out it's perfectly legal and bookable and it came out at the same mileage as my wife's thru LAX.
Jun 12, 2014 | 11:50 pm
#590
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AA EXP; UA 1MM & PP; Marriott AMB; Hyatt Globalist; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 62,158
Glad it worked out for you
Jun 13, 2014 | 1:24 pm
#591
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: NYC
Posts: 111
I'm looking to book NYC-Los Cabos and add a free one-way to the end. I've been able to successfully try NYC>SJD>NYC>LAX, but my question is does the one-way have to be in the continental US?
Can I have the one-way go to the Caribbean or Central America since it would be the same amount of miles?
Thanks.
Can I have the one-way go to the Caribbean or Central America since it would be the same amount of miles?
Thanks.
Jun 14, 2014 | 8:04 pm
#592
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: IAD
Programs: UA Gold, Marriott Rewards - LTPP
Posts: 4,242
Stopover question
I'm trying to book CHS-ORD-DSM-ORD-CHS. Booked over the phone because ORD-CHS was the next morning. Agent said stopovers were only permitted on intl tickets.
here is what ua.com says:
A stopover is permitted on roundtrip award travel only. One stopover is permitted, unless otherwise noted. Additional mileage may be required for Saver Awards within the continental U.S., Alaska and Canada. For travel booked on or after February 1, 2014, a stopover is permitted only on certain roundtrip itineraries. Additional mileage may be required.
is it correct for them to charge additional miles?
here is what ua.com says:
A stopover is permitted on roundtrip award travel only. One stopover is permitted, unless otherwise noted. Additional mileage may be required for Saver Awards within the continental U.S., Alaska and Canada. For travel booked on or after February 1, 2014, a stopover is permitted only on certain roundtrip itineraries. Additional mileage may be required.
is it correct for them to charge additional miles?
Jun 14, 2014 | 9:48 pm
#593
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA LT Plat 2MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 73,036
Also mention in the original
..Changes to miles needed for some Saver and Standard Awards, including domestic stopovers (link - PDF p.2) ....
Aaron Goldberg
Sr. Manager - Customer Experience Planning
United Airlines
Aaron Goldberg
Sr. Manager - Customer Experience Planning
United Airlines
Jun 16, 2014 | 9:55 pm
#596
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,933
Can I book this r/t using saver miles?
LAS-BKK (open jaw in Thailand for a few weeks)
KKC (Khon Kaen, Thailand) thru BKK to MUC (stop over for a few weeks)
MUC-LAS
Thanks for any help!
LAS-BKK (open jaw in Thailand for a few weeks)
KKC (Khon Kaen, Thailand) thru BKK to MUC (stop over for a few weeks)
MUC-LAS
Thanks for any help!
Jun 17, 2014 | 4:53 pm
#597
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 137
I was able to book this as a roundtrip award.
SFO-HKG
KBV-BKK-FRA
FRA-ORD-SFO
However, I was wondering if it would still be possible to add TXL as an additional segment?
SFO-HKG
KBV-BKK-FRA-TXL
FRA-ORD-SFO
SFO-HKG
KBV-BKK-FRA
FRA-ORD-SFO
However, I was wondering if it would still be possible to add TXL as an additional segment?
SFO-HKG
KBV-BKK-FRA-TXL
FRA-ORD-SFO
Jun 17, 2014 | 5:22 pm
#598
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AA EXP; UA 1MM & PP; Marriott AMB; Hyatt Globalist; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 62,158
But your overall routing is technically illegal now because it crosses both oceans (a recent tightening of the routing rules). You may therefore run into difficulties making any changes.
So you can try, and it might work, but don't be surprised if you spend lots of time on the phone accomplishing nothing.
Jun 18, 2014 | 1:00 am
#600
Join Date: Oct 2011
Programs: AA, UA, BA
Posts: 72
Is this legal? trying to price it for 55k econ saver
HNL-NRT
layover (less than 24 hours)
HND-SIN
STOPOVER
SIN-PVG
DESTINATION/OPEN JAW
XMN-NRT-HNL
United rep said United does not allow both stopover and open jaw within the same itinerary. Either one stopover or one open jaw but not both.
My understanding is you can have a stopover and an open jaw with the same itinerary. What do you think? Did United change the rules recently that I missed? rep said if i leave from PVG-HNL (no open jaw) then it would be ok. Thanks!
HNL-NRT
layover (less than 24 hours)
HND-SIN
STOPOVER
SIN-PVG
DESTINATION/OPEN JAW
XMN-NRT-HNL
United rep said United does not allow both stopover and open jaw within the same itinerary. Either one stopover or one open jaw but not both.
My understanding is you can have a stopover and an open jaw with the same itinerary. What do you think? Did United change the rules recently that I missed? rep said if i leave from PVG-HNL (no open jaw) then it would be ok. Thanks!