SAS increases the prices for points upgrade
Feb 4, 2009, 1:41 pm
#121
Join Date: Aug 2007
Programs: EB
Posts: 6
Great answer, Tommy777
That's it! I'm out.
Does SAS understands the concept of stand by?
Does SAS understands the concept of Recession?
It's all about to do the best of a low load factor, right? Create loyalty out of a empty seat for example. Now, SAS believes, they have a product that's all of a sudden is worth 70% more/our loyalty is worth 70% less.
That's crazy, and it's even more so after SAS for some time now believes our money is worth 75% LESS (25% mile earning for not so cheap tickets). Very odd math in a recession!
Oh, the icing on the cake: I will now also pay SAS direct with my tax money...
That's it! I'm out.
Does SAS understands the concept of stand by?
Does SAS understands the concept of Recession?
It's all about to do the best of a low load factor, right? Create loyalty out of a empty seat for example. Now, SAS believes, they have a product that's all of a sudden is worth 70% more/our loyalty is worth 70% less.
That's crazy, and it's even more so after SAS for some time now believes our money is worth 75% LESS (25% mile earning for not so cheap tickets). Very odd math in a recession!
Oh, the icing on the cake: I will now also pay SAS direct with my tax money...
Feb 4, 2009, 1:42 pm
#122
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Tallinn, Estonia
Programs: SK*(LT)G, AY
Posts: 153
Maybe there are some in the management who are angry about the forced leave soon. So a small "present" to the company to make clients mad (new ideas or bad replies). Just a wild guess based on the reading from a.net that some in SAS are really unhappy to go.
Maybe already mentioned in the context of upgrades (sry then), that some flyers are not allowed to use their points for anything else than work-related trips if employer has paid for the tickets. Depends on the country or internal procedures of the employer. Upgrades are allowed. Personally do not have that problem but it may come anytime. Why should I pick the airline where my benefits are even more limited? No, I'll try to choose suitable one where I can upgrade. But SAS will lose flexible ticket traveler.
Maybe already mentioned in the context of upgrades (sry then), that some flyers are not allowed to use their points for anything else than work-related trips if employer has paid for the tickets. Depends on the country or internal procedures of the employer. Upgrades are allowed. Personally do not have that problem but it may come anytime. Why should I pick the airline where my benefits are even more limited? No, I'll try to choose suitable one where I can upgrade. But SAS will lose flexible ticket traveler.
Feb 4, 2009, 1:51 pm
#123
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 7,323
Great answer, Tommy777
That's it! I'm out.
Does SAS understands the concept of stand by?
Does SAS understands the concept of Recession?
It's all about to do the best of a low load factor, right? Create loyalty out of a empty seat for example. Now, SAS believes, they have a product that's all of a sudden is worth 70% more/our loyalty is worth 70% less.
That's crazy, and it's even more so after SAS for some time now believes our money is worth 75% LESS (25% mile earning for not so cheap tickets). Very odd math in a recession!
Oh, the icing on the cake: I will now also pay SAS direct with my tax money...
That's it! I'm out.
Does SAS understands the concept of stand by?
Does SAS understands the concept of Recession?
It's all about to do the best of a low load factor, right? Create loyalty out of a empty seat for example. Now, SAS believes, they have a product that's all of a sudden is worth 70% more/our loyalty is worth 70% less.
That's crazy, and it's even more so after SAS for some time now believes our money is worth 75% LESS (25% mile earning for not so cheap tickets). Very odd math in a recession!
Oh, the icing on the cake: I will now also pay SAS direct with my tax money...
And what a first post!!
Please sign the petition and join the fjasbookgroup so I can have some more amo when I visit the SAS CEO in a few weeks
http://www.petitiononline.com/mordi777/petition.html
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gi...3551304&ref=mf
I've signed!
Feb 4, 2009, 4:31 pm
#126
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sweden & Iceland
Programs: SK*G, FI
Posts: 99
Feb 4, 2009, 5:14 pm
#127
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Programs: SAS EBD, BA Gold, Bonvoy Titanium, Hertz PC, National Exec Elite
Posts: 554
The message to Tommy from SAS translates into something like this:
"Regarding the price increase on standby upgrades at the gate, the answer is short - We've offered stand by upgrades since 1999, and this is the first time we've made a price adjustment. Price adjustments happen every now and then for all products.
Regarding the highest priced 50 000 points, we think it's important to stress that it covers Upgrade from the very lowest Economy price up to Business Class. The Business Class concept has actually improved over the last years.
Regards Kerstin"
Tommy's eleqant reply is too long for me to translate now.
"Regarding the price increase on standby upgrades at the gate, the answer is short - We've offered stand by upgrades since 1999, and this is the first time we've made a price adjustment. Price adjustments happen every now and then for all products.
Regarding the highest priced 50 000 points, we think it's important to stress that it covers Upgrade from the very lowest Economy price up to Business Class. The Business Class concept has actually improved over the last years.
Regards Kerstin"
Tommy's eleqant reply is too long for me to translate now.
Feb 4, 2009, 7:32 pm
#128
Join Date: May 2008
Location: ARN
Posts: 3,475
If I receive a salary in NOK, SEK or DKK, and my salary is increasing a few percent every year, I accept that prices also go up a few percent.
The problem with EB is that the "currency" is miles and the distance between OSL-LHR, ARN-ORD, CPH-BKK does not increase with a few percent every year. So, to raise prices in this "currency" is totally unacceptable.
Take my advice and leave EB as soon as possible. I did four years ago.
Feb 5, 2009, 1:15 am
#129
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Manila
Programs: CX DM, TG *G, HH DM
Posts: 210
EB nutcases
This is the final drop for me.
I have earlier been extremely annoyed with SK for penalising those members who live in the Far East with higher thresholds for G-status, and the general lack of service onboard when compared to other option to/from Europe. This last drop has made my decision very easy: Goodbye SK, hello TG. The only question now is how much longer TG will keep on flying
, as they're not in the best financial shape either...
I have earlier been extremely annoyed with SK for penalising those members who live in the Far East with higher thresholds for G-status, and the general lack of service onboard when compared to other option to/from Europe. This last drop has made my decision very easy: Goodbye SK, hello TG. The only question now is how much longer TG will keep on flying
, as they're not in the best financial shape either...
Feb 5, 2009, 1:37 am
#130
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Oslo
Programs: EB*G, BD*G, HH Silver, FB, AA, SPG, Hertz #1 Gold
Posts: 1,056
Feb 5, 2009, 2:10 am
#131
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: BGO
Programs: EBG
Posts: 175
Translation of Tommy777's email to EB
Translation:
Hello Kerstin and thank you for your reply,
What you are saying is not correct. The price of standby upgrade was first 20k from ECO to BIZ and went up when SAS was done introducing the new Airbus. In 2003 the price went up from 20 to 30k when ECO EXTRA was introduced. There was also a differentiation between USA and ASIA, so yes, the price has been increased with almost 40% earlier. That's an average of 12% per year. This is not comparable to price increases in other FFP's.
I won't dispute that the hard product in BIZ have been improved but that it's worth a 70% increase are your own words. That ECO EXTRA is worth a 100% price increase - the same price you charged in BIZ before 2003 does not make sense at all. Old BIZ had a much better "hard product" and a "soft product" in another league.
One more important thing you ignore is that the pricing on ECO EXTRA and BIZ have decreased very much since 2003. Previously it was not possible to get a rountrip ticket under 30k. Now you can find tickets around 17-20k. Eurobonus points do have a monetary value as they are sold on your web site. You ignore that fact.
So let's get to what you really get for your money. An upgrade with SAS costs more with the new pricing than a confirmed bonus trip in BIZ. That's crazy.
In addition you guys in EB should consider that you have the absolutely worst earning structure with 25% earnings in classes where your competition have a minimum of 50%. Most of the new airlines that have crushed SAS in the IC competition to Scandinavia have 100%. If you look towards LH (which it's obvious that you do but you only adapt the worst and not what's good with M&M) they all give 100% in all classes over the Atlantic (like US and UA) while they have 50% in a few of their own classes. So why do you think it took LH a few months to win the competition with SAS on the SEA route?
To conclude: SAS EB have the last years ruined the earning structure for 85% of their passenger. Now you have also increased the price by 70%.
In the mean time you and your colleagues are telling us about improvements but there's not one single new improvement since 2003. Then you added 15/25%.
It's really disappointing that you look at EB as a cost and not a powerful marketing tool that can win back passengers to SAS. In a time where SAS as the only airline cuts back 20% on IC and delivers the worst numbers in the business, you should look at what EB is worth and use it as the strongest and most economic way to win back customers.
Instead you choose to pull the program down to a record low level and your arguments are actually wrong and very little thoughtful (with respect).
I believe it's important that you take of your blinders and look at your competing programs and the general picture.
Incredibly sad to see EB go from the best program with the most Freddies to the absolute worst.
In addition I think it's even more sad that you and others in EB don't take FLYERTALK seriously and that you're not receptive of the feedback we try to give you. There's much more knowledge out there than you think.
Good luck,
-Tommy
Hello Kerstin and thank you for your reply,
What you are saying is not correct. The price of standby upgrade was first 20k from ECO to BIZ and went up when SAS was done introducing the new Airbus. In 2003 the price went up from 20 to 30k when ECO EXTRA was introduced. There was also a differentiation between USA and ASIA, so yes, the price has been increased with almost 40% earlier. That's an average of 12% per year. This is not comparable to price increases in other FFP's.
I won't dispute that the hard product in BIZ have been improved but that it's worth a 70% increase are your own words. That ECO EXTRA is worth a 100% price increase - the same price you charged in BIZ before 2003 does not make sense at all. Old BIZ had a much better "hard product" and a "soft product" in another league.
One more important thing you ignore is that the pricing on ECO EXTRA and BIZ have decreased very much since 2003. Previously it was not possible to get a rountrip ticket under 30k. Now you can find tickets around 17-20k. Eurobonus points do have a monetary value as they are sold on your web site. You ignore that fact.
So let's get to what you really get for your money. An upgrade with SAS costs more with the new pricing than a confirmed bonus trip in BIZ. That's crazy.
In addition you guys in EB should consider that you have the absolutely worst earning structure with 25% earnings in classes where your competition have a minimum of 50%. Most of the new airlines that have crushed SAS in the IC competition to Scandinavia have 100%. If you look towards LH (which it's obvious that you do but you only adapt the worst and not what's good with M&M) they all give 100% in all classes over the Atlantic (like US and UA) while they have 50% in a few of their own classes. So why do you think it took LH a few months to win the competition with SAS on the SEA route?
To conclude: SAS EB have the last years ruined the earning structure for 85% of their passenger. Now you have also increased the price by 70%.
In the mean time you and your colleagues are telling us about improvements but there's not one single new improvement since 2003. Then you added 15/25%.
It's really disappointing that you look at EB as a cost and not a powerful marketing tool that can win back passengers to SAS. In a time where SAS as the only airline cuts back 20% on IC and delivers the worst numbers in the business, you should look at what EB is worth and use it as the strongest and most economic way to win back customers.
Instead you choose to pull the program down to a record low level and your arguments are actually wrong and very little thoughtful (with respect).
I believe it's important that you take of your blinders and look at your competing programs and the general picture.
Incredibly sad to see EB go from the best program with the most Freddies to the absolute worst.
In addition I think it's even more sad that you and others in EB don't take FLYERTALK seriously and that you're not receptive of the feedback we try to give you. There's much more knowledge out there than you think.
Good luck,
-Tommy
Last edited by erwiol; Feb 5, 2009 at 2:13 am Reason: couple of errors
Feb 5, 2009, 8:14 am
#132
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Copenhagen
Programs: British Airways Gold (oneWorld Emerald), Starwood Preferred Guest Platinum
Posts: 1,713
No reason to stay in EuroBonus, I agree with you all
I certainly agree with what you have all (more or less) said: the upgrade with points was one of the few perks that made EuroBonus an option. This was the only thing I used, when I was in EuroBonus back in 2000.
Anyway, since I switched to AC in 2001 and have since remained quite happy with their program, I guess my input is not so important on the subsequent changes. Other than to say that I certainly understand, why most of you consider/decide to switch away from EuroBonus.
Yeah, well, thankfully, flying transatlantic out of CPH, there is always a much cheaper option on another *A airline. It means a connection in FRA, LHR or MUC, but I am fine with that.
I agree, the "price increase over time" makes no sense when it comes to miles. Unless the earning of miles also increases. It is an absurd argument indeed.
Anyway, since I switched to AC in 2001 and have since remained quite happy with their program, I guess my input is not so important on the subsequent changes. Other than to say that I certainly understand, why most of you consider/decide to switch away from EuroBonus.
Which is the most ridiculous argument I've ever heard.
If I receive a salary in NOK, SEK or DKK, and my salary is increasing a few percent every year, I accept that prices also go up a few percent.
The problem with EB is that the "currency" is miles and the distance between OSL-LHR, ARN-ORD, CPH-BKK does not increase with a few percent every year. So, to raise prices in this "currency" is totally unacceptable.
Take my advice and leave EB as soon as possible. I did four years ago.
If I receive a salary in NOK, SEK or DKK, and my salary is increasing a few percent every year, I accept that prices also go up a few percent.
The problem with EB is that the "currency" is miles and the distance between OSL-LHR, ARN-ORD, CPH-BKK does not increase with a few percent every year. So, to raise prices in this "currency" is totally unacceptable.
Take my advice and leave EB as soon as possible. I did four years ago.
Feb 6, 2009, 1:33 am
#133
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Programs: SAS EBD, BA Gold, Bonvoy Titanium, Hertz PC, National Exec Elite
Posts: 554
I have information from a senior source at SAS Denmark Sales & Marketing, that SAS acknowledges that poorly coordinated information was put on their websites this week, and that this information has now been removed. Until further announcements current rules are still in place.
According to this source, some EB changes will be annouced in a few weeks. These change will "benefit the customers" but are not fully decided yet.
According to this source, some EB changes will be annouced in a few weeks. These change will "benefit the customers" but are not fully decided yet.
http://www.takeoff.dk/news.cfm?nNews...&nNewsId=19876
Apparently Mr. Bording is as little informed as we are, since the upgrade price increase has returned on all SAS webpages, and EB management through Tommy777 has told 100's of EBG/EBP members to get lost...
My apologies for trusting a SAS senior manager to know what he's talking about.
Feb 6, 2009, 2:03 am
#135
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Finland
Programs: AY Platinum,Marriott Gold,HH Diamond,Sixt Platinum,Hertz PC,AMEX Platinum
Posts: 1,946
With SAS logic (which is wrong as we know), they trust that people will still fly with SAS, they would just deposit the points to some other FFP.
But in fact, at least me, if I switch to other FFP then I will dedicate them as much flights as possible. And I would use SAS only as a feeder so SAS in the end will lose also money.
But in fact, at least me, if I switch to other FFP then I will dedicate them as much flights as possible. And I would use SAS only as a feeder so SAS in the end will lose also money.