Matin

I guess these two methods of achieving status should not be conflated!

There’s segments/points based on a fixed fare class regardless of spending(EB, FB, BA, etc) then there’s fluctuating points achieved based on amount of spending(US carriers).

So far within Europe the only program that’s going to purely move to the latter method is AY+ which still remained to be seen how high they will set the euros spent for each tier, though initial figures have put-off a lot of non corporate flyers.

Only US carriers are a fan of revenue based status since in US credit cards are dominant in everyday life and people can achieve status virtually through any purchase but flying.

the810

*A does it except LH Griup and SK. You do get free baggage on light fares with LO, TP, TK, OU, A3 etc., benefit I'm often using and one of the reasons why I'm avoiding Lufthansa Group. But yes, since we can assume this will now be expanded to SK too, it in an improvement.

I should also add that Skyteam baggage benefit already applies to Silver level, which is ridiculously easy to earn. This is one of the main motivations for me to switch to SkyTeam in January. 20 segments (i.e. 5 return flights) within Europe and I'll start saving around 60€ on every single trip. Even if points were completely useless for rewards, this is already a much better return than in any *A programme.

the810

So does EBG if you fly with an airline that contracts a lounge (i.e. anyone else than SK). As an EBG who now doesn't fly with SK at all, I've had only one experience when I wasn't able to use the lounge and that was at OSR where LO doesn't contract it because it's a PSO route.

This is the same at SkyTeam. It's down to the operating airline whether they contract the lounge or not. The FFP benefit itself is the same as with *A.

But then I assume that if AFKL gets controlling share in SK, they will align the product, so SK will start contracting lounges again. AF and KL have more or less the same product, I don't see why SK should be different.

Stil

I should have been more precise and written an EBG flying SK.

It's of course up to the operating airline what they offer, but my experience as both ST E+ and *G are that ST Airlines actually has the ability to make a unison benefit scheme, in starch contrast to *A, which seems to be all over the place with benefits for Y travel.

I don't have many, a bit out of the ordinary experiences with ST benefits. The only one that springs to mind just now was the Garuda dom. lounge in Jakarta where I wasn't allowed to guest one.

My list for *A would be very long.

ST might not be percieved well by most *A elites, but they seems to be able to keep benefits system vide. Which is a huge plus in my book.

the810

I generally agree with what you write and I'm myself intrigued about going for SkyTeam (if only they managed to get LO on their side, it would be a done deal for me). But when it comes to the lounge access, my understanding is that all Star Alliance carriers apart from SK do contract lounges at outstations. So this is really an SK problem rather than the alliance problem.

On the other side, I've heard some bad things about fast track being (consistently) provided to elites at SkyTeam, something that's not an issue on *A apart from SK which once again doesn't contract them.

In regards to lounges, it should also be noted that SkyTeam lounge access benefit is explicitly restricted to international flights. Not a huge deal for AF and KL, but quite significant at SK.

hhdl

One TATL J roundtrip with a CDG/AMS (or CPH...) connection plus buying the sustainable aviation fuel (about 1500 euro add-on) will get you 240ish XP: enough for Gold and the rollover will either get you a third of the way to requalifying for next year or combine with a similar flight and SAF purchase to move you to Platinum.

It's also not impossible that a merged E/FB adds a Diamond level with SDC or similar.

nacho

Basically it's only *A that's so bad with variation of benefits across the airlines. Most people who solely travel leisure cannot afford to get status with more than one alliance, and *A presence in Europe is actually pretty well covered (if you count Turkey as part of Europe).

Lounge access policy is better in *A vs ST as *G (apart from UA G) can use UC while travelling domestically (yes I know UC sucks but it is still better than nothing).

If you are based in Korea then ST is the only alliance (when OZ merges with KE), and you have no ST hub in Japan/Australia/New Zealand.

Arpoador

While it is true that lounge access is only granted for international Skyteam flights (or connecting to/from a same day international Skyteam flight), AF does grant Flying Blue (Gold and above) members lounge access on domestic flights in France.

Stil

LH doesn't even, as far as I know, provide contract lounges at German airports where they used to have their own lounges like CGN and BRE. No lounges at all.

Regarding lounge access it's only in the US there are restrictions for the use of (DL) lounges on solely dom. itineraries (US to US). And where it is a problem in reality.
Most ST Airlines grant access to their own FF on dom. itinerarys.
One of the largest drawbacks of ST in my book.

bduperrin

With ST you have lounge access when traveling with a partner airline only if you travel in First/biz or if your re connecting with a international flight.

So it's not only in the US....

I had the case recently with VN for instance.

"Regardless of their travel class, SkyTeam Elite Plus members1 traveling on, or connecting to/from, a same-day international flight2 operated by a SkyTeam member airline have access to a lounge. Lounge access will be provided only at your departure airport and transfer airports, and not on arrival.

For connecting customers, both the domestic and international flights must be operated by a SkyTeam member airline. Simply present your boarding passes and a valid Elite Plus membership card for the lounge agent to validate for admission."

the810

They do contract a lounge at CGN according to the lounge finder. I also know from my own experience that they contract lounge at DRS for example.

The Skyteam lounge access benefit is restricted to domestic flights everywhere, not just in the US. Yes, some carriers grant access on domestic flights to members of their own programme, but not as an alliance benefit, so if you're flying outside your base airline, you're screwed.

Stil

You are right in the sence that one has to be AF/KL FB elite in order to access a lounge on a NCE-ORY itinerary. It will not work being ST E+ with China Eastern. (MU does provide lounge access for their own elites on dom. itineraries in China).
For me personally I have only had problems with the rule in the US, but it is a huge drawback for the alliance and probably the reason it is perceived as a lessor alliance by many.

I know there was talks in 2019- about scrapping the rule by ST/Airlines, but never materialised.

Stil

You are right and my wording was not clear. What I meant to emphasise was that several if not all of the ST Airlines provide dom access for their own elites.

Which doesn't make it any better as a ST E+! Very stupid rule and I simply doesn't understand why the Airlines will not take the cost for extra lounge expenses to make ST more competitive?

I was at CGN not long after they closed their own there and there were no alternative and from the sound of it it didn't sound like any would be offered.
Haven't been there since so good if there are a lounge alternative again? But one have to take the lounge finder with a grain of salt.

oliver2002

For a small airline like SK a standalone FFP makes no sense. AFKL want FB to become something like IAGs Avios. That way you can spread the joy a bit and for SAS it will be cheaper. Once AFKL own more than 50% in SAS they also don't need to put in any firewalls to avoid airlines looking into each others revenue figures.

The consumer friendly credit card laws in the EU make it tough for loyalty programs to sell a value case to banks. In a way I personally don't mind that much since it prevents airlines from becoming dependent on CCs.

There was quite a bit of back and forth on who owned the SR/LX customer data, the same happened when bmi folded into IAG. bmi DC member data of the past was not handed to BA, the same logic applied to Travel Club / Qualiflyer data and LHG. All that was transferred was the personal detals of the members. Lets see what requirements the EU puts on AFKL. Going by the recent ITA comments they are probably just looking at what overlap AFKL and SAS have in the TATL segment.

Whereever the airport took over the LH facilities (CGN/NUE/DRS/BRE/DEL) they grant acces to SEN/HON/C/F/*G pax. (Writing this from the DRS lounge). LHG always includes *G if they have a contract lounge in the destination.

Permanent closure of LH lounges in DEL, Bremen, Dresden, Cologne, Leipzig & NUE

Stil

I mainly fly LH and LH group long haul so just out of curiosity does LH offer lounges at all their "larger" destinations?
I might wrongly have had the idea that LH in recent years have not been so consistent in lounge offerings?
​​​​