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BART Commuters Warned To Prepare For Potential Strike

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Old Aug 16, 2009 | 10:13 pm
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Antipode
I think the information missing here is that the vast majority of these people are engineers and other highly-skilled laborers who could make more working comparable jobs in private industry.

Not saying that it's still not a lot of money, but these aren't your run-of-the-mill train operators and station agents that are easy to replace.
What's interesting is that other comparable public transport systems use almost minimum-wage workers just fine. Most of BART's station agents are worse than most airline workers (GAs, FAs, etc.) and have no notion of what customer service is all about.

BART should go driverless and find people with some customer service skills to replace station agents.
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Old Aug 17, 2009 | 11:56 am
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Antipode
I think the information missing here is that the vast majority of these people are engineers and other highly-skilled laborers who could make more working comparable jobs in private industry.

Not saying that it's still not a lot of money, but these aren't your run-of-the-mill train operators and station agents that are easy to replace.
Actually, not for this union (it's one of three BART unions). The members are mostly station agents and train operators, both jobs only requiring high school diplomas (per bart website). Neither requires much skill as the train rides themselves are highly automated. Station agents mostly given directions and assist with demagnitized tickets, operators mostly provide station announcements and watch the door closings to ensure nobody gets stuck.

The real issue here wasn't as much salary but overtime. The unions have ridiculous work rules which keep payrolls inflated and rampant overtime. And come on - $100k on a non-college education for a low stress, low physical, low wattage job with huge benefits and lifetime job security is pretty sweet.
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Old Aug 17, 2009 | 7:36 pm
  #33  
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Nice drive home from OAK at 3pm today with traffic moving at the speed limit.

Originally Posted by Boraxo
operators mostly provide station announcements and watch the door closings to ensure nobody gets stuck.
If it was only that easy. They also run the trains on manual mode which requires complicated instructions in a technical language a lay person would not understand, and may involve exiting the cab to set switches if they don't automatically change on their own or fail. They're also trained in evacuation procedures which will differ based on whether you're at ground level, elevated, or in a tunnel. They're also versed on use of rescue trains, something that is a major consideration in any incident in the TransBay tube. This all involves working outside the train with electrified tracks. I remember an employee being electrocuted to death in one of the train yards during my tenure there. It can be a dangerous work environment when you're outside the train cab.

If all they had to was watch the doors and make announcements the training class would not be 4 months long, and they wouldn't require testing during the training that could easily flunk you out of the class. Some of tests they are given have to be passed the first time with a grade of 85% or you're gone.

I worked with a police dispatcher that went through the training to be a part time train operator and she told me it was the hardest training course she had ever been through. Seem to recall less than half her class made it through training.

It may not require much to get in the door, but that's no guarantee you're going to make it through the training course.
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Old Aug 17, 2009 | 8:26 pm
  #34  
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Originally Posted by tom911
If it was only that easy. They also run the trains on manual mode which requires complicated instructions in a technical language a lay person would not understand, and may involve exiting the cab to set switches if they don't automatically change on their own or fail. They're also trained in evacuation procedures which will differ based on whether you're at ground level, elevated, or in a tunnel. They're also versed on use of rescue trains, something that is a major consideration in any incident in the TransBay tube. This all involves working outside the train with electrified tracks. I remember an employee being electrocuted to death in one of the train yards during my tenure there. It can be a dangerous work environment when you're outside the train cab.
I can see the train operators having to have special training for dealing with irregular operations and emergency situations, but I'm having trouble thinking of what the station agents might need special training for. Do you happen to recall what might make a station agent's job not that easy?
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Old Aug 17, 2009 | 8:39 pm
  #35  
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Stations agents had to deal with jammed ticket machines and fare gates pretty regularly, so they probably have some training for that. Most of the time I dealt with them it involved ticket validation issues/fare disputes or problems reported to them on the platform (fighting, smoking) or station entrances (loitering, panhandling). I don't know how long their class is, but couldn't imagine it being anything near what train operators get because they're not expected to be out on the tracks.
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Old Aug 18, 2009 | 2:13 am
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Originally Posted by tom911
(in re Train operators)They also run the trains on manual mode which requires complicated instructions in a technical language a lay person would not understand, and may involve exiting the cab to set switches if they don't automatically change on their own or fail. They're also trained in evacuation procedures which will differ based on whether you're at ground level, elevated, or in a tunnel. They're also versed on use of rescue trains, something that is a major consideration in any incident in the TransBay tube. This all involves working outside the train with electrified tracks. I remember an employee being electrocuted to death in one of the train yards during my tenure there. It can be a dangerous work environment when you're outside the train cab.
The only item you mention that would be at all a stretch for ordinary railroad engineers would be working around third rails.....and compared to the electrical hazards to be found *inside* the engine compartment of a typical diesel-electric freight locomotive, it's no huge surprise. Any professional railroad engineer or conductor should be competent to handle the duties of a BART train operator with a quick swot of the emergency procedures.

If all they had to was watch the doors and make announcements the training class would not be 4 months long, and they wouldn't require testing during the training that could easily flunk you out of the class. Some of tests they are given have to be passed the first time with a grade of 85% or you're gone.
BNSF & UP require a 90% pass on all safety related exams... Including a memorization of the operating rules, which are *WAY* more complicated than anything BART deals with. Here is a sample of the sort of operating rules dealt with on a daily basis by Class 1 railroads.

Given the slow-down in rail jobs brought on the the economic slump, I'm betting that a *lot* of the BNSF & UP extra-board crews would LOVE to have a job that paid more, had a less demanding schedule, and regular hours.
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