Renters who don't fill up on gas quite all the way to F...
#46
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: U.S. East Coast
Programs: DL, AA, WN, B6, National, Choice, Marriott, IHG, Hyatt, Hilton
Posts: 13
National has just listed a new master rental agreement on their website. National has decided to squeeze more money from renters and not care about "customer service". This is what it says about filling up the gas tank:
(6) The fuel charge at the rate shown...
(6) The fuel charge at the rate shown...
...Renter shall not receive a refund or credit if Vehicle is returned with more fuel than when Renter received it. If Renter purchases the Fuel Service Option, then Renter’s fuel charge shall be the per gallon (or per litre) charge multiplied by the fuel tank capacity of Vehicle rented.
#47
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: MCI
Posts: 698
National has just listed a new master rental agreement on their website. National has decided to squeeze more money from renters and not care about "customer service". This is what it says about filling up the gas tank:
(6) The fuel charge at the rate shown...
(6) The fuel charge at the rate shown...
...Renter shall not receive a refund or credit if Vehicle is returned with more fuel than when Renter received it. If Renter purchases the Fuel Service Option, then Renter’s fuel charge shall be the per gallon (or per litre) charge multiplied by the fuel tank capacity of Vehicle rented.
In any event, if I need to fill up more than what I received the car for...I'll report back and see. But hopefully this practice will not be totally abolished even though it specifically states so in the MRA
#48
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 777
National has just listed a new master rental agreement on their website. National has decided to squeeze more money from renters and not care about "customer service". This is what it says about filling up the gas tank:
(6) The fuel charge at the rate shown...
(6) The fuel charge at the rate shown...
...Renter shall not receive a refund or credit if Vehicle is returned with more fuel than when Renter received it. If Renter purchases the Fuel Service Option, then Renter’s fuel charge shall be the per gallon (or per litre) charge multiplied by the fuel tank capacity of Vehicle rented.
Going back several years a counter rep tried to tell me National wouldn't credit me back for the "extra" gas (tank was 3/4's when taken out, brought it back full. One telephone call to manager and all was solved.
In fact ever since have not even needed to bring the matter up; upon return if agent notices vehicle has more gas in it than when it left, I receive a credit.
Now this might just be for places where I rent frequently enough that they know the look of me, or what; but there you are.
Also seem to recall years ago a sign posted at National counters in NYC pretty much outlying the above. This may tie into my comments in another thread about not returning a vehicle with "free gas". If National isn't going to credit/refund my money for giving them more gas than when I left, then why should I or anyone bother filling the vehicle beyond what is required?
#49
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Coastal CT
Programs: UA MM Lifetime Gold, Delta Gold, SPG/ Marriott Lifetime Gold, HH Gold
Posts: 55
I don't remember the last time I put gas in a rental car before returning it. Sometimes, if it was a short trip, i don't get hit with a gas charge. The needle says "full" (or close enough) and the rental car agent calls it full. Sometimes I've driven the car for a day or two and I get hit for half a tank, maybe more. Well, I used it, why not pay for it? Yeah, it would be less expensive if I found a gas station and filled it myself. Guess what? Most gas stations near airports have higher prices for the gas at the pumps. Especially if it's right off the freeway at the exit just before the airport.
I used to be religious about filling up before returning the rental car - but then I had to find the right gas station. And if I didn't know my way around, I could easily see stopping late at night in a bad section of town. So, screw it, I return it as it - and pay the higher cost per gallon. 99.9998% of the time it's a business rental and I don't get too worked up about it. The times that it's a personal rental and I might be paying a bit more for gas? Convenience.
I used to be religious about filling up before returning the rental car - but then I had to find the right gas station. And if I didn't know my way around, I could easily see stopping late at night in a bad section of town. So, screw it, I return it as it - and pay the higher cost per gallon. 99.9998% of the time it's a business rental and I don't get too worked up about it. The times that it's a personal rental and I might be paying a bit more for gas? Convenience.
#50
Join Date: Nov 2008
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 124
The car I returned to Hertz at Manchester airport last night would have cost me £180 to fill up (about $250) according to the contract - I filled it close to the airport for less than £50. The per gallon rates that most car rental agencies use if you don't pre-buy the whole tank of fuel are often 3-4X the pump price.
#51
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Florida
Programs: Delta SkyMiles; Hilton HHonors; NEXUS; National Emerald Club Executive
Posts: 366
Part of it is that US fuel prices are a fraction of those in Europe, due to (much) lower fuel taxes.
#52
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: トロント
Programs: IHG Gold
Posts: 4,820
Here's what it said
E85 (85% ethanol, 15% gasoline), or a mixture of both. E85 should only be used in ethanol-capable FFVs. E85 has about 30% less energy per gallon so the fuel efficiency of a FFV running on ethanol will be 30% less than when it is running on gasoline
In any case, they don't sell it where I live.
#53
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: NYC
Programs: DL PM, Marriott Gold, Hertz PC, National Exec
Posts: 6,736
Interesting, Hertz has a program at a couple of locations where you can bring it back partially full, and they'll refuel it at the market rate, and charge you a $7 flat fee. Silvercar does something similar, bring it back part full, and they'll fill it up, charge you market rate for gas, and a $5 fee.
https://www.hertz.com/rentacar/produ...=fuel_plus.jsp
#54
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: SGF
Programs: AS, AA, UA, AGR S (former 75K, GLD, 1K, and S+, now an elite peon)
Posts: 23,196
Hmm..decided to look this up , and living in Canada used a Canadian website.
Here's what it said
E85 (85% ethanol, 15% gasoline), or a mixture of both. E85 should only be used in ethanol-capable FFVs. E85 has about 30% less energy per gallon so the fuel efficiency of a FFV running on ethanol will be 30% less than when it is running on gasoline
In any case, they don't sell it where I live.
Here's what it said
E85 (85% ethanol, 15% gasoline), or a mixture of both. E85 should only be used in ethanol-capable FFVs. E85 has about 30% less energy per gallon so the fuel efficiency of a FFV running on ethanol will be 30% less than when it is running on gasoline
In any case, they don't sell it where I live.
The negotiated rate must be a big piece of it, since my recollection is that the rental companies in the US are charging over $8/gallon to refuel your car.
Interesting, Hertz has a program at a couple of locations where you can bring it back partially full, and they'll refuel it at the market rate, and charge you a $7 flat fee. Silvercar does something similar, bring it back part full, and they'll fill it up, charge you market rate for gas, and a $5 fee.
https://www.hertz.com/rentacar/produ...=fuel_plus.jsp
Interesting, Hertz has a program at a couple of locations where you can bring it back partially full, and they'll refuel it at the market rate, and charge you a $7 flat fee. Silvercar does something similar, bring it back part full, and they'll fill it up, charge you market rate for gas, and a $5 fee.
https://www.hertz.com/rentacar/produ...=fuel_plus.jsp
I think it's a much fairer way to do things. Even if you only get charged for one gallon, that's ~$2.50 plus a $7 convenience fee for a total of $9.50, versus the standard $9.99/gal rate that Hertz charges (which is what the two receipts I have handy, for LAS and GSO, show as the refueling rate).
But that's the issue: I think Hertz was hoping (back when they tried this in 2011ish) that more people would just choose to take advantage of it, so while they wouldn't pull down $50 in profit on a car returned short of fuel like they used to, they'd make it up in volume with a decent chunk of people choosing to just pay Hertz $6 or $7 or whatever to do it for them. But that demand didn't actually materialize, so Hertz ended up just making less money on the same number of people who brought cars back less than full. (Of course, the fact that people are probably willing to accept at $7 refueling fee without screaming and posting nasty stuff on social media whereas being socked with a $120 refueling charge for bringing the car back on a 1/4 tank is the surest way to permanently lose a customer and look bad in online reviews, but that apparently wasn't enough of a motive to avoid going back to the old way.)
Last edited by jackal; Jan 6, 2018 at 2:08 pm
#55
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SEA (the REAL Washington); occasionally in the other Washington (DCA area)
Programs: DL PM 1.57MM; AS MVPG 100K
Posts: 21,375
I had a one-day rental from Avis in downtown Victoria BC last summer; drove ~70 miles (topped off ~20km / 12 mi away), and pulled into the garage with the needle touching the edge of the F mark; email receipt showed up 15 min later with a $35 refueling charge ... when I went into the office the next morning (receipt in hand, showing time and place of purchase) and asked the manager about it, his reply was "you have to fill up within 10 km / 6 mi"
"uh, please show me where in the contract it says that"
"that's just our policy sir"
he offered to knock it down to $15 and I wasn't in the mood to argue any farther as we had a floatplane to catch
"uh, please show me where in the contract it says that"
"that's just our policy sir"
he offered to knock it down to $15 and I wasn't in the mood to argue any farther as we had a floatplane to catch
#56
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NYC/Northern NJ
Programs: 1K - UAL, Platinum DL, Marriott, Hilton, SPG
Posts: 1,815
One observation - I've seen rental car outfits use the cars for errands in between returns (obtaining food orders, or transporting between locations like Midtown to EWR) so while the last renter did return full the usage by staff decreases fuel guage. Also, depends on location of the rental agency and turnover of cars vs. staffing.
#57
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: SGF
Programs: AS, AA, UA, AGR S (former 75K, GLD, 1K, and S+, now an elite peon)
Posts: 23,196
One observation - I've seen rental car outfits use the cars for errands in between returns (obtaining food orders, or transporting between locations like Midtown to EWR) so while the last renter did return full the usage by staff decreases fuel guage. Also, depends on location of the rental agency and turnover of cars vs. staffing.
#58
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2001
Programs: DL 1 million, AA 1 mil, HH lapsed Diamond, Marriott Plat
Posts: 28,190
https://www.afdc.energy.gov/fuels/et...locations.html
The difference isn't concern for cold-weather performance - it's promotion of alternative fuels under U.S. law by the Energy Policy Act of 2005.
#59
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: San Francisco/Sydney
Programs: UA 1K/MM, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Something, IHG Gold, Hertz PC, Avis PC
Posts: 8,162
Sometimes this comes down to the vehicle rather than the driver...
Picked up a Sentra from Hertz a few days ago. Fuel was dead on the F line, which on some cars is as high as it goes, so I was suspicious it wasn't full, but it was full so I didn't mention it.
After driving about 40 mile the gauge was about 1/8th of a tank down, so it was fairly clear it hadn't been full. Pulled into a gas station and filled it up - but it only took just over 1 gallon, even though I topped it off once after it stopped. So at that point I was thinking it's just a screwy gauge, and the car had been full at pickup.
However even after refilling it, the gauge never got back up to Full - not even level with the line like when I picked it up.
Just before returning it a few days later I filled up. This time I kept topping it off once the pump clicked off (like they tell you not to). Every time I did that, it took another 1/4 gallon, eventually taking about 1.2 gallon more before I stopped pushing. At that point the gauge was above the F line, like you'd expect with most cars.
Picked up a Sentra from Hertz a few days ago. Fuel was dead on the F line, which on some cars is as high as it goes, so I was suspicious it wasn't full, but it was full so I didn't mention it.
After driving about 40 mile the gauge was about 1/8th of a tank down, so it was fairly clear it hadn't been full. Pulled into a gas station and filled it up - but it only took just over 1 gallon, even though I topped it off once after it stopped. So at that point I was thinking it's just a screwy gauge, and the car had been full at pickup.
However even after refilling it, the gauge never got back up to Full - not even level with the line like when I picked it up.
Just before returning it a few days later I filled up. This time I kept topping it off once the pump clicked off (like they tell you not to). Every time I did that, it took another 1/4 gallon, eventually taking about 1.2 gallon more before I stopped pushing. At that point the gauge was above the F line, like you'd expect with most cars.
#60
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: MCI
Posts: 698
Been there, done that. Though outright taking a random dirty or ready car off the line solely for a food run was frowned upon (personal errands = use your personal car). However, a detour to get food when moving cars between locations was tolerated, and managers would occasionally grab random cars for "business-related" errands (guilty as charged, and preferably, the decked-out Hemi with heated leather seats ) when the dedicated crew van was otherwise occupied, but that's all only a couple vehicles here or there out of hundreds or even thousands being returned and washed and rented on any given day. Still, staff usage (legitimate or not) is definitely responsible for at least a gallon here or there from the occasional car.
Though I think it's always good to top off before returning the car to the customer lot if say more than a certain number of miles were driven for that purpose....especially if its a gas guzzler that was driven in stop-go traffic.
My current long-term rental is a Camaro RS with the V6 and its only averaging about 15mg on my 1 mile commute....lol
Sometimes this comes down to the vehicle rather than the driver...
Picked up a Sentra from Hertz a few days ago. Fuel was dead on the F line, which on some cars is as high as it goes, so I was suspicious it wasn't full, but it was full so I didn't mention it.
After driving about 40 mile the gauge was about 1/8th of a tank down, so it was fairly clear it hadn't been full. Pulled into a gas station and filled it up - but it only took just over 1 gallon, even though I topped it off once after it stopped. So at that point I was thinking it's just a screwy gauge, and the car had been full at pickup.
However even after refilling it, the gauge never got back up to Full - not even level with the line like when I picked it up.
Just before returning it a few days later I filled up. This time I kept topping it off once the pump clicked off (like they tell you not to). Every time I did that, it took another 1/4 gallon, eventually taking about 1.2 gallon more before I stopped pushing. At that point the gauge was above the F line, like you'd expect with most cars.
Picked up a Sentra from Hertz a few days ago. Fuel was dead on the F line, which on some cars is as high as it goes, so I was suspicious it wasn't full, but it was full so I didn't mention it.
After driving about 40 mile the gauge was about 1/8th of a tank down, so it was fairly clear it hadn't been full. Pulled into a gas station and filled it up - but it only took just over 1 gallon, even though I topped it off once after it stopped. So at that point I was thinking it's just a screwy gauge, and the car had been full at pickup.
However even after refilling it, the gauge never got back up to Full - not even level with the line like when I picked it up.
Just before returning it a few days later I filled up. This time I kept topping it off once the pump clicked off (like they tell you not to). Every time I did that, it took another 1/4 gallon, eventually taking about 1.2 gallon more before I stopped pushing. At that point the gauge was above the F line, like you'd expect with most cars.