I still don't understand this (the "rebook on same day" bit).

I ran into this last month when in Australia. Going SYD-BNE, we got to the airport early (waaaay early) and wanted to switch to an earlier flight. 'OK' says the lady "let me look..... oh, this is a red e-deal ticket ... you can't change that on the day of flight."

"OK, so cancel that ticket and give me a credit for it, less the $27.50 cancel/change fee. Now sell me a ticket on this earlier flight (at whatever the cheapest price is) and apply that credit against it."

I'm obviously missing something in this whole equation. You can change a red e-deal ticket the day before flight (but not on the day of flight)for a $27.50 change fee. You can cancel the ticket anytime and get a credit, less a $27.50 cancellation fee. What's the difference?

tt7, they want to make sure they get LOTS of extra money out of you on day of travel.

Dave

I agree, this thread should be closed. We havn't strayed off topic ONCE, and that is just not on on the Qantas board. Any thread which stays on topic needs to be closed ASAP.

Dave

OK, thanks ..... but I still don't understand. Here's my problem -
1. Me - I'd like to change this ticket please to an earlier flight today. I'll pay the $27.50 change fee plus whatever the fare difference is between what this ticket cost and the cheapest available ticket on the flight I'd like to go on.
2. QF - you can't. You cannot change that ticket on the day of flight.
3. Me - OK. In that case, I'd like to cancel this ticket please and receive a credit for what I paid for it, less a $27.50 cancellation fee.
4. QF. OK, here you go....This credit is good for 12 months (presumably?) and can be used to (part) pay for another QF ticket.
5. Me. Thanks very much. Now I'd like to purchase a ticket on this flight today please - what ever is the cheapest available.
6. QF. That will be $xxx please for this new ticket.
7. Me. Fine. I'd like to apply this credit you just gave me against the cost of the ticket. Here's my credit card for the balance.
*****
What am I missing? The end result is the same....

No it wouldn't. You've paid the $27.50 cancellation fee + purchased a fare in a higher class (albeit on your preferred flight). QF wins, you win.

We do things differently Down Under.

I thought the red e-fare rules said "Cancellation (on or before day of travel), "loss of fare". Changes are, however, OK and subject to a $33 fee and used as credit for a higher value fare...

This "loss of fare for cancellation" rule stops you cancelling the red e-deal fare on check-in. Not a surprising restriction given the price of the ticket. It was worse some months ago, you couldn't make ANY chanes AT ALL to the red e-deals once ticketed.

You were obviously missing an obstinate customer service agent. I tried that trick (ie cancelling & using the credit etc) and was told you can't use the credit for travel on the same day. Aaagh!!!

Yep, you sure do!

In the U.S. (on AA), they would have been more than happy to charge me $100 (the standard change fee here - about A$150) plus the fare difference. QF was a perfunctory "no - you can't change".

All QF got for that approach was two OW emerald fliers who weren't exactly impressed with the level of "service" provided and who, along with the QF/QC member they were travelling with, spent about 7 hours sitting in the QC, using the conference rooms and eating and drinking whatever was on offer.

Depending on what the fare difference was, we might - or might not - have changed. However, refusing to even discuss it (or setting your fare rules so it can't be done) strikes me as a pretty dumb way to run an airline.

I've now dug back to find the paperwork for these tickets - and I stand (partially) corrected. You can't change it on the day of flight or cancel it - if you want to cancel it, you have to do it at least the day before.

Paying the change fee and the fare difference is one thing - but just refusing to make a change - at any price - seems a bit dumb to me. Admittedly, we could have simply 'abandoned' our existing ticket and bought a new one ... but forcing us to do that ensured we didn't do it .... and, instead, we simply ate and drank what the QC had to offer for an extende period. Overall, a "lose/lose" situation, rather than a "win/win".

QF has commercial reasons for its change policy on the "red-e-deals". And the fare conditions are very clearly printed when you book the fare.

The bottom line is, well, the bottom line. QF remains one of the world's most profitable airlines, and having draconian policies on changing fares is a good revenue protection mechanism.

As to your solution, being to drink the QP out of coffee and beer, that's not such a good way to protect the revenue.

I would bet that the vast majority of pax buying red e-deals would not be able to use the QC, I mean QP. On an individual anecdotal basis, one pax or group might eat and drink their way through an awful lot in seven hours. But the financial effect of fare rules like this is obtained through the general market discipline imposed, and not necessarily what swings and roundabouts operate for one individual privileged pax. Most of the market buying these fares just won't bother coming to the airport until it's time for their non-changeable non-refundable flight, and QF gets the general effect it wants.

Which are .... what, exactly?

Not to belabour the point (which I am, I know...) but I'm still struggling to understand the logic of QF's approach.

I fully understand the notion of buying a 'cheap' ticket that has -
(a)an advance purchase requirement
(b)is nonrefundable
(c)requires a change fee if you change it
(d)requires you to pay the fare difference between what you originally paid and whatever fare is now available.

To this QF has now added -
(e) and if you change it or cancel it on the day of flight, we won't give you any credit for it (though if you do it before the day of flight, we will).

This clearly just adds one more way to make the customer pay (which is fair enough). However, what's the logic of allowing changes prior to the day of departure but not on the day of departure? Why not simply say "no refund, no changes, no credit - no matter when you change". How does QF benefit from not allowing a change on the day of departure that would be allowed if made the day before?

The logic lies in a fare structure which tries to find the maximum price that the passenger is willing to pay for various features, including flexibility. Business travellers are prepared to pay more for flexibility because of why they're travelling.

So how do you identify them and make sure that the pony up the extra? By making the cheap tickets inflexible at precisely the time that the business traveller most wants flexibility - ie on the day of travel itself. That's the time when people are turning up early at airports because their meetings have gone short, or late when they've overrun. So they business traveller who doesn't want the risk of sitting around in the airport for many hours will pay extra for the ticket with the extra flexibility.

The leisure traveller, on the other hand, may have problems with their travel the month before, the week before, or even two or three days before - they've lost their job, the house has been broken into, the mother-in-law is sick, or whatever. They don't have an increasing need for flexibility the closer they get to flight time. So they will be more likely to be happy with the restriction, and be more prepared to pay the very lowest price they can find.

The real boon in these conditions is (IIRC) the move away from "travel or bust" conditions which are common for the cheapest tickets over here in Europe. No changes, no refunds. At any time. You fly on the flight you're booked on or you buy another ticket. Dead simple.

To add further to Globalisers comments, they are also a response to competitive pressure from Virgin Blue - which has similar conditions on their cheapest fares.

Globaliser, thank you for reiterating the reasons why I no longer pay for the cheap fares on most of my travel (business) but have gone to K as the minimum basis for my tickets....I had never articulated the reasons to myself.