Canista

I’m planning a trip from LHR to LIM.

A typical route could be LHR-MIA and MIA-LIM. From LHR, both BA and AA fly to MIA, and then only AA from MIA to LIM.

Question for the experts is: if I use Q points to book a flight, can I book BA for the LHR-MIA leg and then AA for the following part, all for the combined amount of points (e.g. 160,000 for the 14,000 miles trip in Business) or do I need to stick to AA for the entire trip?

Additionally, can I include a further stop (more than 24 hours), for example MIA-BOS BOS-LHR on the return (so flights would be LHR-MIA-LIM / LIM-MIA-BOS / BOS-LHR, all for 160,000 points in Business, on AA and BA)?

Thanks!!

QFAA

Yes, 3 legs each way, one free interline stop BA/AA in addition to the free stop at a transfer point, and yes, whole thing one itinerary, for example:

170,000 points in J, up to 17,500 miles:
BA LHR-BOS (Free Stop)
AA BOS-MIA (Stop +10,000)
AA MIA-LIM
AA LIM-MIA (Free Interline Stop)
BA MIA-LHR
(another leg could be added)

Pattern goes ORIGIN-TRANSFER-TRANSFER-DESTINATION/DESTINATION-TRANSFER-TRANSFER-ORIGIN.

The destination and origin arrive/depart ports may be different (open jaw), but the surface (land) mileage must be included in calculating the points for the itinerary.

One of the transfers is the free stop; and another of the transfers may be the free interline stop.

I think Qantas has excellent J award options!

Hope this helps!

------------------
Glen,
QFAA

[This message has been edited by QFAA (edited 05-17-2002).]

Dave Noble

If you want to use BA and AA for the trip , the cost requirement is 175,000 rather than 160,000 since it needs to be booked as a One World award.

If you were to use AA for the entire trip then you could do it for the 160,000. The 160,000 is only valid where all travel is on 1 airline only of BA/QF or AA.

If you want the additional stop, then it will cost 170,000 points if done on AA only since there is a 10,000 point cost for a stopover but if using the OW award you are entitled to a free stopover at the AA->BA crossover point.

I would spend the 175,000 miles and use BA for the transatlantic, it is a far superior airline than AA and get the free stopover.

(Note: If you are planning to stop for 23hrs 59 minutes or less, it will not count as a stopover )

Dave

[This message has been edited by Dave Noble (edited 05-18-2002).]

Canista

Thanks guys.

Very useful (and opened a new option)

Thanks again!!

thadocta

Just spoke to QF in Sydney, and specified an itinerary of BA from SYD to SIN and QF from SIN to LHR - they said it would be on the QF/BA/AA award table. I then suggested QF from SYD to LAX, AA from LAX to JFK and BA from JFK to LHR (and vice versa) they also said it would be on the QF/BA/AA table, rather than the OneWorld table.

I might have got up her nose a bit, she asked me what tables I was looking at, I said they were on the Qantas website, and she then wanted to transfer me to the internet help desk. I got stroppy, since it has nothing to do with the net (apart from that being where I was looking at their tables) and everything to do with redemtion tables.

Dave

Dave Noble

When I did a booking, they put the flight details in and it automatically calculated the points required. When the itinery included BA and AA, it priced it as an OW award, when BA only and a QF/BA/AA award. The agent looked into it and came back n said that the QF/BA/AA table only applies if all the travel is on the single carrier


Dave

thadocta

I specifically stated that it was to settle an argument on an internet bulletin board. I then gave the specific itineraries, all of them involving either QF/AA, QF/BA or QF/AA/BA - on all occasions, they quoted them using the QF/BA/AA table rather than the OneWorld table - this is after quoting specific itineraries (e.g. SYD (QF) LAX (AA) JFK (BA) LHR (QF)SYD) - and they quoted based on the QF/BA/AA table, even to the extent of mentioning that the QF/AA, AA/BA and BA/AA interline points did not count as stopovers as far as points deductions go.

Dave

Dave Noble

Thats dammed annoying if it is true. When I did a trip in March , I wanted to do MAN-LHR-JFK on BA in Z and then JFK-STL in Z on AA and then return the same way. When they put the flights in and did a costing, it came out as an 150,000 rather than 125,000. Thats when she went off to check why it was happening and came back to say it was because of the use of 2 carriers taking it off the table. She did say that the system automatcally calculated the cost and it wasnt her. I ended up just buying a cheap ticket from JFK to STL rather than spend the 25,000 miles.

Dave


[This message has been edited by Dave Noble (edited 05-19-2002).]

thadocta

It is certainly true, although I do not vouch for the accuracy of the QF phone droid which I spoke with 0 they may have been wrong, after all.

The website is rather ambiguous, and does not state in explicit terms what the go is - it needs to be up-dated, urgnently. Perhaps that is why she wanted to put me through to the internet help section.

Certainly, common sense dictates that if they want A points for B miles for travel on QF, and they want C points for D miles for travel on QF, and they identically want A points B miles on BA, and they want C points fod D miles on BA, and they identically want A points for B miles on AA and they want C points for D miles on AA, then one would logically think that since the mileage requirements were the same on AA/BA/QF on one airline, then it would be the same across all three airlines (since they all have the same redemption levels).

Or is that too simple?

Dave

QFAA

Daves Noble and docta:

I have two confessions.

#1: My first name is David, but I went with my middle name Glen here because of you two.

#2: I think it's wide open in how you read the QA/AA/BA (QAB) partner table versus the Oneworld for that LHR-MIA-LIM itinerary.

As I read the QAB partner award conditions, it seems to indicate that they did not intend for a non-QF interline stop to be free. But, not really spelt out there.

I reckon this is a fine point and many itineraries have been booked both ways in the past, and probably will be in the future.

Why the same computer system chooses different award tables is a bit of a mystery -- most likely solution being that it's the operator which at some point chooses the award table to book under (and is then told if the itin is okay or not). I'll bet the software will eat these itineraries under either table.

It may well be that the itinerary comes back using a table which is not expected by the operator -- who may then force another table on it? Hey -- I'm no award centre staff, just guessing.

I've noticed curious hesitations from time to time when booking -- and am reasonably certain I've pushed things through more on bonhomie than technical merit -- especially when put through to a senior/supvsr type.

But on the technical side, just to refresh here, a OW award of course has to be (in the cases we're outlining) QF+(BA or AA), or BA+AA (at least two OW carriers if not Qantas). So, could well fit there.

For the QAB:

-----------------
On joint QF/BA and QF/AA Award itineraries, the following stopover conditions apply:
On the services of BA or AA, one free en route stopover will be allowed in addition to the point of turnaround. Another free stopover will be allowed at the transfer point between QF and BA or AA flights in one direction only and 2 additional stopovers will be allowed at 10,000 points each.
----------------
Note that the terms QF/AA and QF/BA are used, not QF/AA/BA, and that the interline stop is QF and BA or AA, rather than BA and AA. Fair enough.

Now most interestingly, albeit not part of the Terms and Conditions, the website simply says:
----------------------
Qantas, British Airways and American Airlines

For travel on eligible Qantas, British Airways or American Airlines flights (ie QF, BA or AA flight numbers), the following point levels apply;
[awards table here]
------------------------

So -- if you're on QF and/or BA and/or AA, then that's the table to use.

Presumably QF could tighten up/clarify these rules a bit.

But -- case can be put, due to that table, that QF/AA/BA travel should be under that table.

Reading down on the same page however, one comes across:

----------------
For travel on Qantas and at least two other oneworld alliance airlines; or if there is no Qantas content, at least two other oneworld alliance airlines, please use the oneworld Awards table.
-----------------

I really think the key here is the word "other", as in "other OW airlines".

>SINCE both BA and AA have been addressed in the previous table, surely "other" here means OW airlines OTHER than those previously mentioned/dealt with (BA and AA).

>THIS is the way to encourage award centre staff to read things IMHO.

Hey -- saves 10,000 points doesn't it?!

Luckily my last 160,000 booking was QF+AA, so wasn't an issue.

Hope this helps Daves, Canista as well.

Cheers!

Glen


[This message has been edited by QFAA (edited 05-19-2002).]

Dave Noble

"SINCE both BA and AA have been addressed in the previous table, surely "other" here means OW airlines OTHER than those previously mentioned/dealt with (BA and AA).

"THIS is the way to encourage award centre staff to read things IMHO."

Hey -- saves 10,000 points doesn't it?! "

The thing is, is that it isn't down to how an agent decides to interpret it, the system quotes based on the itinery.

I phoned up Qf and asked for 1st class award availability on various flights. They put in MAN-LHR in X, LHR-JFK in Z , JFK-STL in Z on AA andthe same on the return. At this point it does a fare calculation and it quoted 150,000 points. Since it is all automatic, there is no agent interpretation to change

Dave

og

This may be the case now, but 3 yrs ago I was told it was 100K points from anywhere in South America (LA) to the Falkland Islands ('coz MPN was British Territory - even though it was only 90 minutes east of Chile. Numerous communications between QF and LA couldn't resolve the matter. Seemed like nobody had tried it before. I was eventually charged 40K points since my argument of MPN(Mt Pleasant) being part of South America won - it made more sense too! I think the words of the operator were something like "lets do it this way and hope we can get it though..."