|
massive QF FF programme changes
As of 15/9/2001 QF is unleashing a wide range of programme changes to their system.
See http://www.qantas.com.au/fflyer/dyn/.../programchange Too many changes to detail in one email, but their system is now looking very north american and will be very interesting to see what AN does. From a brief look, it appears to be quite positive but have not had time to digest and work out the implications for me. Another nail in ANs coffin? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif Mark |
I will be quite interested to read about the changes in detail.
It's novel how QF now want to count frequent flyer miles rather than kilometres. A step backwards to revert to the North American idea of miles - I think! The international upgrades using points sound good - will be interested to analyze number of points to upgrade from discounted economy tix Australia to US and Australia to UK/Europe. 1000 miles per segment is definately a plus - wonder if it will apply only to QF flights but also to OW partner flights (in particular AA)? No expiry on points is also great - pity I redeemed 75,000 points last week that were due to expire 31/8. I could have saved them up for a better reward http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif Ansett has to drastically revamp their fledging Global Rewards programme. ------------------ - Gary - [This message has been edited by Gary (edited 03-14-2001).] |
Miles!
|
Yes, MILES???? What is this, the 21st century or the 18th? I hope this isn't just a sneaky way to reduce your points earned by a factor of 1.6.
|
As a matter of interest, does anyone else have problems accessing the web pages with the details of the new scheme? I just get mostly blank pages displayed (using IE 5.0). I have to look at the HTML source to discern the contents..not very nice!
|
I think they were having some problems - I was getting 500 Errors (internal server error) but things are back.
Even more positive is the complimentary Gold (current silver) card for a partner for 2100 credits (cheaper than BA!) and the 250 Credits = 1 Upgrade Credit idea. And the 7000/14000 lifetime statuses are just amazing. That means there are some very easy ways to get lifetime. That's only 233 trips in Business from SYD-MEL. Not much really. The upgrades look pretty reasonable value and I love the status bonuses (25% extra for me!). The Bus to First upgrades are especially attractive. No expiry is a sound marketing decision - doesn't cost them much I assume but removes a great barrier in perceptions. I know they got rid of the service fee now but what about joining fees? Award levels will be signifcantly higher though. 40,000 New points for PER-MEL-PER Business class. I can get it for 37,500 old points today. Unfortunately domestic upgrades are now 1.6 times more expensive. It doesn't say anything about converting your 80,000 points to 50,000 after September, so maybe they are pricing awards high at this point as people will have lots of the "old" points to use up. I think maintaining it as a special balance and the old table (like AA did) would have been better. However, gone is the days of getting "bonus" points in the States on a D Class RTW but flying in first as AA doesn't have Business Class. Under 2700 miles, Business and First earn the same. But the miles thing has got me stumped. I just simply don't understand that bit. With kms used on UK roads soon (so I'm lead to believe), its inevitable that BA will change to Kms. Clearly, they've done a lot of matching to US programs. Maybe even too much! I am genuinely considering my decision to have AA as my top choice program. At this stage in my life, QF will be my main airline that I fly on and these changes take out most of the problems that caused me to give the check in lady the shock of her life last month when I asked to have my QF number removed to put an AA number in instead. She'd never done it before! Good series of changes and I suspect market forces will make them drop some of the levels of award bookings. For me, awards are not my priority - upgrades and status are. This is therefore great for me! Just my first thoughts. |
Two huge changes I missed!
Discount Economy earns 100% (not 70%)! But for business class flyers, you no longer get 4 times the credits of discount flyers. Only 3 times. That would be why the Platinum ("old" Gold) has fallen to 1400 Credits. This will lessen the effect of any possible dilution brought by the drop from 1700->1400. These things clearly show that QF has realised I am no less loyal to QF than my Dad is. I just don't get to fly business class like he does. |
I would say that the move to Miles by QF is to bring them in-line with oneworld(tm) partners. The 1000 mile minimum is definately novel, and amazing for flights like MEL-SYD (439 actual miles according to UA). Imagine how much you could rack up on all those funky regional flights or even CBR-SYD shuttles?
I wonder if QF would comp me gold or plat level if I show them my UA 1K card and statement. This certainly makes QF a viable and attractive option and Ansett has a large stake in it's coffin if it does not match/revamp GR which now seems even more sad and tired than before. Also of note 7500 credits for lifetime. If you need 1400 in a year to make plat, and given you make 10 minimum you could make lifetime gold in around 6 years of heavy flying or 750 short haul flights. If we assume 1000 miles/flight, that's 750,000 miles. That's *cheap* compared to AA/UA's million miler lifetime status! I wonder if these changes will impact the US programs in any way? ------------------ UA 1K MEL A Star Alliance(tm) Member. |
It's interesting. They've made short hops more valuable, with the 1000 point minimum, while making short hops cost much more to redeem points on. A few other things to note:
One-way rewards are gone. Stopovers on award flights will cost 10000 points each!! That's almost as bad as Ansett's changes, but the main thing is that Qantas had the guts to tell us 6 months in advance of bringing the changes in, while Ansett did it without telling anyone at all. Tier credits still suck horribly for anyone who ever flies discount economy. Also, note the 20% bonus for the next few months for putting points across to them from credit cards. |
Wow, I'll be Bronze! Something more than 'Non-tier' because I only fly once a year and then Qantas wipes the tier points away! Bronze. Wow! ^_~
I do like "No Account Service Fee"... very good... "Introducing international upgrades" ... great! I'm a less frequent traveller, but if points never expire, I'll be able to fly business, one day!! "Frequent Flyer points will not expire"! ^_^ "Discount Economy travellers will earn the same as Full Economy" NIIIIIIIIIIIIIICE!! ^_^ "A minimum 1,000 points per flight - guaranteed" Sounds good... "Qantas Frequent Flyer points earned per mile, not kilometre" - dumb, dumb, dumb. Does this mean that kids will have to be taught miles in school? I wasn't, so I've got no idea what a mile really is. "Lifetime recognition available" is great for those who make it! "Guaranteed Economy Class seat available for purchase by Platinum members" ... umm... so if you say 'I want an aisle seat at the back', you'll get it if you're Platinum, guaranteed... and for everyone else it's luck? From 15 September 2001 ... hrm, too bad I'm flying in June/July, otherwise I'd get Full Economy points for my el-cheapo (but expensive compared to the specials!!) tickets... Heh... "Privileges You Can Look Forward To When Flying Qantas" ... Bronze gets ... NOTHING! *rolls her eyes* May as well not be no-tier... Well ... at least it's now more fair for the plebs like me, who can't afford to fly all the time, or who doesn't get to go on business trips anywhere! ------------------ Kun-chan... PS - Can you go and have a look at these URLs and tell me what you think at [email protected]? http://www.thekeep.org/~kunoichi/kunoichi/ax_images/ http://milesbar.com/join.asp?id=MBG1198 http://www.emailcash.com.au/join.asp?refer=C60997 BTW - Can you also have a look at my latest articles at: http://www.themestream.com/articles/237806.html |
This email below has a few extra litle points. (What is the 1000 extra for 5000 transfer referring to .. my QF visa???) When I had dinner with Randy Petersen he'd been down here talking to QF FF brass about their program. He indicated they consulted him to pick his brains about things that they might look at and improve, such as It'l upgrades etc. Whether this is a direct result of Randy's advice, who knows, but interesting. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cool.gif
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ On 15 September 2001, we will introduce a range of program changes and new benefits to the Qantas Frequent Flyer program. Members who have advised a valid mailing address will soon receive an information pack. This information, plus Questions and Answers, is also available on-line. Visit http://qantasfrequentflyer.com.au to find out more about these and other exciting highlights: - No expiry* on points for active members (effective 15 March 2001) - No Account Service Fee (effective 15 March 2001) - New international upgrades as well as domestic using Frequent Flyer points - Points earned on miles, not kilometres - Minimum 1,000 Points Guarantee per flight To celebrate 'no expiry on points'* we're giving away 1,000 bonus Qantas Frequent Flyer points every time you convert the equivalent of 5,000 Qantas Frequent Flyer points from your Australian or New Zealand credit card Reward Program**. Plus, you could WIN a fabulous New York trip for you and three friends! Call your credit card service centre to convert today! Visit http://qantasfrequentflyer.com.au for full details and Terms and Conditions. We'll contact you again before September. In the meantime, we will continue to reward you as usual. Best regards, G. Mark Emerson General Manager Relationship Marketing * Provided you earn or redeem points from your account at least once every three years. ** This offer ends 30 June 2001. P.S. If you know of other Qantas Frequent Flyers who would like to see this e-mail, please feel free to forward it to them. [This message has been edited by ozstamps (edited 03-14-2001).] |
I also got the e-mail today from Qantas. Being one of the few non-Aussie or Kiwi member of Qantas residing in North-America, I guess my opinion about the changes to Qantas FF program is quite different to most people.
Before I go into details, my feelings can be summarized in two words: "Horrible and Deplorable!" Here is why: POSITIVE CHANGES No expiry date for points Excellent change for most members except those who are used to spend their points within the 5 year period. Overall, not that big deal. No account service fees Well, for Aussies and Kiwis this is a good change, but for certain other people (for instance me), I am indifferent b/c I don't pay such fees anyway by residing outside of Australia or New Zealand. Status bonuses A good change in appearance, but this is merely matching what other major FF programs are doing. This would be excellent if the redemption level is the same as before. But a quick look at the new award levels clearly suggest that the redemption levels for awards have gone up too. Lifetime recognition Well, if you keep flying every year, this means nothing to you. But this may be good when you retires. A friendly gesture from Qantas in my opinion. Minimum 1,000 miles per flight Sounds good, but everything is relative. What happened to the redemption level (see negative changes further down)!? Status Credits This is not something that I paid close attention to in the past b/c I collect Qanatas points but was careless about the status. So, I have no idea whether it has become better or worse. Nontheless, I roughly recall that I found Qantas Status Credits used to be so restricted to Qantas flights that people live outside of Australia or New Zealand doesn't have much chance of being high in status. Nonetheless, as part of my natural instinct when studying new things, I immediately notice a potential loophole and fast-track for North-Americans to gain Qantas status based on the new format. I would like to draw your attention to First Class 2,701~5,000 miles for 150 Status credits one way. Obviously, Qantas think that a First Class above 2,701 miles have to go beyond Australia. But, this can be easily by-passed by American Airlines' Chicago (ORD) to Honolulu (HNL) non-stop service at a distance of about 4,500 miles one-way. Since the booking class is F or A in First class. This domestic U.S. flight, quite cheap, especially if you buy the lowest non-refundable economy fare and then upgrade eletronically or using points will book you in A Class (First, earning First Class bonus). A round-trip is enough for 300 Status credits, enough to retain Silver status. On top of that, this also earns you one upgrade credit useable for upgrade on Qantas. And the cheapest ticket between ORD and HNL is about $400 USD. What a good deal if one is interested in getting Qantas status. Of course, there is the 4 Qantas segments rule but this is easy with one trip down under. Now... NEGATIVE CHANGES A less complicated system!? I rather it stays complicate than being torn apart so badly. Award flights redemption level No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I suppose because I am not an Aussie that I am really having trouble with the fact that I can no longer do the round-Australia trip for 37,500KM points. This allows me up to 11,000 KM within Australia for 5 stopovers. Now, look at this in case you haven't realized it yet: 11,000KM = 6,875 miles, which is in the same zone as 5,401~10,000 miles. For business class, I NEED 100,000 MILES!!!!! Is Qantas kidding or something!? Wake up, this is not 100,000KM, but 100,000 Miles or 160,000KM! So, instead of paying 37,500 KM for an itineary that I could fly, say: SYD-CNS-DRW-ADL-MEL-SYD, I have to pay 160,000 KM (100,000 Miles) + 50,000 miles for 5 stopovers (NO FREE STOPOVERS ANYMORE) for a GRAND TOTAL of 150,000 miles or 240,000KM. A jump of 640% in cost for a frequent flyer paying with points! So...if you guys think I am over reacting, just shoot me but this is unbeliveable. How can they do that? Do they think FF can't think and calculate? For Int'l travel, it is also very bad. I'll give you an example. A typical itineary for Aussies: SYD-LAX-SYD. Business Class for this would be Zone 4 for 160,000 Miles. Hello!? even BA is offering this on Qantas metal for 95,000 miles with the new BA Executive Club North-America. Yes, I said Qantas operated flights, for the exact same route. Oh, by the way, BA doesn't measure distance like Qantas do. Under the new BA system, the 95,000 miles is also good enough to fly New York - Sydney or anywhere in Australia, New Zealand or New Caledonia in Business Class + one free stopover, whereas flying out of JFK would need 220,000 miles in Business Class based on the new Qantas rules! That's more than double compared to BA for a Qantas operated flight! I can understand you guys are probably not used to think in terms of miles yet, since those new redemption levels are clearly based on miles not KM as stipulated very clearly in the new rules. But once you realize it, it's horrible and deplorable. It's very good that some changes are added to make the life easier for most Qantas members residing in Australia such as no service fee. Furthermore, earning points easier seems good in appearance. But, with the redemption level literaly jump up by up to 640%, it's unforgiveable. "The inflation clearly outpaces the increase in salary here!" It's quite late here. Please feel free to comment. Maybe I am overreacting or overly sensitive to points and miles but it is the only reason why I am Qantas FF member. [This message has been edited by Guava (edited 03-15-2001).] |
To celebrate 'no expiry on points'* we're giving away 1,000 bonus Qantas Frequent Flyer points every time you convert the equivalent of 5,000 Qantas Frequent Flyer points from your Australian or New Zealand credit card Reward Program**. I have about a million Amex MR points as I use the card a great deal for business purchases. Reading ABOVE, the same 1 for 5 deal appears to apply? It says Australia or New Zealand card reward programs, NOT Ausralian and New Zealand (ie ANZ Bank) programs or maybe it was just a typo error? Does anyone know for sure if Amex MR points can be done as well in this deal?? Getting 200,000 + 40,000 bonus QF points makes me suspicious. Where is the catch? ------------------ ~ Glen ~ |
The 1000 per 5000 bonus points aside, do you think it will be better to transfer Visa and other reward points before or after the change?
I would have thought before, since 1 point in the old system becomes 1 point in the new system so you are effectively getting a mile for a km. (And although miles will be harder to earn, award levels will be lower in miles than they were in km.) However one of my colleagues is convinced it will be better to wait because 1 mile is worth 1.6km. Have any mathematical types thought this out yet? Also, if that 1000 mile minimum thing applies to segments, there are going to be quite a few popular trips of less than 2000 miles which earn 4000 points (eg from Sydney to many Queensland locations which must be accessed via Brisbane). Can this be right? |
Hi All,
Some answers to your questions. Why Km to miles? 1 km = 0.62 miles 1 mile = 1.61 kms All Qantas’ major partners distribute points based on miles (Cathay, BA, AA, etc), in fact all major carriers Europe, Asia and North America use miles for measuring points for flying. The change means closer alignment to partner programs –earning and redeeming can be more closely aligned across partner programs. How many points do I earn? Although points for flying are now distributed based on miles – the total number of points issued will be higher due to the following changes: 1. Minimum earn of 1000 points (1250 for business/first) 2. Full earn on discount economy (used to be 70%) 3. Tier bonuses Also all tiers will earn more points on average – that is Bronze’s are not losing out to Platinum’s – this is because full earn impacts mostly non-tiers while tier bonuses have the greatest impact on Platinum’s. So forgetting about how points are measured you will on average receive more under the new system. What about existing points? No change. A point is a point is a point – the same in the new and old system. That is credit cards still transfer on a one to one basis and you earn the same number of points for hotels, rental car hire, etc. The only difference is that the number of points earned for flying will be calculated based on miles rather than kms + the above changes to earning points for flying (together these will mean more points on average for flying). Tier credits? Unfortunately because of Qantas’ network (lots of very short and lots of very long routes) they need to maintain a system that rewards both short and long haul travel on an equitable basis. If it was based on distance travelled you would have to do 25 trips SYD-MEL to get the same recognition as 1 SYD-LHR – under the tier credit system the ratio 6:1. The tier credits issued for most flights has increased (especially short and medium haul flights – like SYD-PER) and the introduction of lower retain and a lower attain level for Platinum make achieving recognition levels easier. Value of short versus long? I like to think of value as number of trips required to earn a free one. The changes are designed to even out the structure/number of trips across the network. For example: · It used to take most members 27 SYD-CBR economy trips to earn 1 free redemption on the same route; it now takes only 10 trips. · It used to take most members 17 SYD-MEL economy trips to earn 1 free redemption on the same route; it now takes only 10 trips. · It used to take most members 6 SYD-LHR economy trips to earn 1 free redemption on the same route; it now takes only 5 trips. Stopovers? Most programs only have rewards point-to-point – some are even zonal and you have to put to rewards together to get to your destination – if you want to go to two destinations too bad or get two redemptions. Qantas wanted to make a fairer system that maintains flexibility for holidays while also giving everyone a fair go at redemption seats. In the past some members were taking up to 40 flights on one redemption, which makes it harder for other members else to get their redemption. The 10,000 point fee for additional destinations gives members flexibility and provides fairer basis for access to seats – a fairer balance between no stopovers (most programs) and QF’s old system. Happy to answer any other questions – please post them below. Cheers… Bruce |
Hi Ozstamps and wannabe flyer,
You get the 20% bonus on any credit card points transferred to QFF points before 30th June. There is no limit (so yes Ozstamps you get 200,000 bonus points for 1,000,000 amex points transferred). It is better to transfer before the 30th June if you want the bonus. Reason – promote the changes to points expiry and as a promotion for the announcement of the new program. Hi Guava, I like you ingenuity in finding tier credit loopholes. Complicated/less complicated: all tables are now based on the same 5 zones – tier credits, redemptions and upgrades. One of the reasons you can find loopholes – that is what happens when you simplify a structure. In the past the tier credit table was based on geographic table that had to be updated every time Qantas added another route, the upgrade table was completely separate from redemption table and the redemption table had 11 zones (including a separate international and domestic section). Redemption example negative: 1. The km to miles conversion is incorrect (although I understand why you think it would work that way) – as discussed above you earn more points for flying the same distance under the new program and other points (credit card, etc) continue to transfer at the same rate (exception is the current bonus on credit card transfers. 2. 11,000 km distance is not realistic for most Australian redemptions (e.g. SYD-PER return is only 4060 miles / 6540 kms) so it is difficult to clock up an 11,000 km redemption wholly within Australia (although that is not to say it can’t be done). It simply doesn’t impact most redemptions. Most Domestic redemptions will fall into zone 1 or 2. 3. Stopover rule discussed in the above post. 4. Partner program redemption rates will most likely update to reflect the new QF tables. Cheers… Bruce |
<<Also, if that 1000 mile minimum thing applies to segments, there are going to be quite a few popular trips of less than 2000 miles which earn 4000 points (eg from Sydney to many Queensland locations which must be accessed via Brisbane). Can this be right?>>
Yes. If you travel 4 segments then you earn a minimum of 1000 points for each segment Cheers... bruce[/B][/QUOTE] |
Well answered thanks Bruce. Do you work for QF or one of the plans? Seems like you have a lot of info there that is very specific.
Yes, I can concur the ANZ bank scheme guy answered my first question as your post indicates - i.e. my EXISTING QF points balance in number will all become "miles" despite them being earnt flying KMs. All my ANZ 200,000 balanace will get transferred 1=1 PLUS the 20% bonus. Bruce .. triple checking that are you 100% sure that Amex MR balances definitely attracts this bonus 20%??? Just all seems to good to be true to me! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cool.gif ------------------ ~ Glen ~ |
So Bruceb do you work for QF? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif
Does QF comp status? I may be interested in jumping ship if they might match my UA status or at least give me Gold. I still have a problem with the tier credits though. If I book a RTW on UA I can get at least the first elite level (Star Silver) I doubt I can do that with QF's tier credits system, which is a little annoying. I am sure it will take time for the changes to sink in and people to work out just what is the best feature for them. One bonus for me: I refused to pay the QF admin fee and suddenly I've been reinstated as a loyal bronze flyer. cool! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif Bonus for oz flyers: Global Rewards will _have_ to match. There is no way they can stay the same way they are and as we know AN has always closely mirrored QF. Oh, they will change the names, fiddle with it, maybe only have a 500 mile minimum (like big brother UA) etc, but they will have to match the major points of this: 100% for all Y fares for one, and others. If they don't they can kiss goodbye to a whole lot of flyers who will simply say "You are the weakest link Ansett. Goodbye!" and jump ship. Interesting times ahead!! The question that has not been asked yet is "why?" - ignoring the QF press hype, QF already has a very strong position: They have over 2 million FF members (way more than AN) and a dominant share of the domestic market. If you assume that people interested in FF programs are going to ignore budget carriers like DJ and VQ and focus on AN/QF then the old system worked fine where both programs happily screwed you royally (and they ignored the people who went offshore for membership benefits). It would be interesting to know how much prodding QF got from oneworld partners on this one, because now their program is far more in sync, and on some levels better than, some of their own partners. This can only be good for everyone is my conclusion! ------------------ UA 1K MEL A Star Alliance(tm) Member. |
Having had a chance to read the fine print, all I can say is: NOT IMPRESSED!!
1) most flights (except short domestics) score *fewer* points (as I surmised above, the change to miles is just a kludge to conceal this). 2) most reward flights (especially domestic and/or BC) require *more* points. Most of the other changes are just a great leap sideways; international upgrades are the only real 'plus', assuming that they are actually available in practice. |
An another interesting change - as a member living in the UK. I've stayed with Qantas as I am only living here for a couple of years - but have of course always used an Australian address so that I can still earn points on discount economy flights. It seems that the restrictions as to residents of the UK and Europe have been lifted - I can actually use my real address !
|
whughes3,
1. Earning changes: Qantas will give away more points under the new system than the old. · Short domestic earn substantially more points. · Just about all long-haul economy travel was classified “discount” under the old system and therefore moves from 70% to 100%. · Tier bonuses have a big impact – for example SYD-LAX on just about all economy tickets you earn 11% less as a Bronze, 11% more as a Silver, 33% more as a Gold and 77% more as a Platinum. Also combine this with a reduction in the redemption cost of 20%(100,000 to 80,000). 2. Cost of reward changes: · Ultra short-haul has increased as stated – but is more than offset by the number of points earned on those routes (see number of trips example above). · Other short-haul is mixed 17,000, 25,000 and some of the 30,000 zone combined into the 20,000 zone – although earn rates also increased (e.g. SYD-MEL number of trips to earn a free one has dropped) · Medium-haul (SYD-PER, SYD-AKL) remain unchanged. · Long-haul (SYD-HKG, SYD-LAX, SYD-LHR) – dropped. For example, SYD-HKG from 80,000 to 50,000; SYD-LAX from 100,000 to 80,000; SYD-LHR from 130,000 to 110,000. · Business class prices have been increased but this is offset by the availability of upgrades (both tier credit based and points based). Unfortunately there are only a limited number of seats at the front of the plane. Ozstamps and RichardMEL, Tier credits (RTW): the new tier credit structure should make it possible to get to Silver on an economy RTW ticket – as you do earn tier credits on other OneWorld carriers – depends on the number of sectors. Also the change from geographic to distance will make it much easier if you are travelling in non-Qantas areas (e.g. North to South America). Yes, AMEX transfer gets a 20% bonus – no limit. Does QF comp status? No official program, but they do sometimes do one-offs (I will ask who you should write to and get back to this thread). Why? Be more competitive both Internationally and Domestically. Programs are becoming more global…. As I have read previous posts by ozstamps it is possible to join another program and “arbitrage” the benefits across programs. Therefore QF needs to be roughly inline with our major partners (some things better and some not). The list goes on and on…. Cheers… Bruce [This message has been edited by bruceb (edited 04-30-2001).] |
ozzie,
Yes these restrictions have been lifted - you can earn 100% in discount economy on all oneworld carriers. Cheers... Bruce |
Something that nobody has mentioned is what happens to our status credits, after the changeover? Do they get converted to Tier Credits, or what?
A good way to earn status would be to buy a head of Qantas Red-E-Deals for $66/flight, ie BNE-SYD, SYD-MEL, etc. If you get the flights after Sept 15, then you'll get 1000 points/flight, rather than the ~500 points you get now, plus 10 status points a flight. So for 750 short flights * $66 = $49,500 you could get 750,000 points, and lifetime membership? (Assuming all you did was fly between Sept 15 & Dec 31)... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif Does anyone know about special itineraries, containing overland segments? We used to be able to get those on the Old System. ie. BNE-DPS & JKT-BNE. Will these be available on the new system? What about the $999 BNE, SYD, MEL - LAX airfares? They'll still fall under the old 70% discount economy ones, right? But on the new system, you'd get ~23,000 points, and only 80 Tier Credits? Seems to be almost the same amount of Tier/Status for Discount Economy. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif I wish Commonwealth Bank True Awards didn't charge a fee of 2,500 points/yr to transfer to Qantas FF. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif Do Woolworths Ezy Banking charge any fees to xfer to Qantas FF? I know they are offering 1 Ezy Rewards point for every $1 transferred to their CC. And I guess you earn 1.25 points at Woolies. The one thing I really dislike is the stopover fee... Also, don't forget about: Make an Award booking using the online service between 1 March and 30 June 2001 and you'll earn a bonus 1,000 Frequent Flyer points for each booking. |
One other thing, is it's a free 1,000 points, per 5,000 points transferred from your Credit Card? Not 20% extra, right?
|
futaris,
<<Something that nobody has mentioned is what happens to our status credits, after the changeover? Do they get converted to Tier Credits, or what?>> Tier credits and status credits are the same thing... no conversion. Just earn more now. <<What about the $999 BNE, SYD, MEL - LAX airfares? They'll still fall under the old 70% discount economy ones, right? But on the new system, you'd get ~23,000 points, and only 80 Tier Credits? Seems to be almost the same amount of Tier/Status for Discount Economy. >> Before 15th September you earn under the old structure (70% kms), after 15th September you earn under the new (100% miles + tier bonuses). No problem with the above fare - either new or old system. Cheers... Bruce |
futaris,
<<One other thing, is it's a free 1,000 points, per 5,000 points transferred from your Credit Card? Not 20% extra, right?>> Yes. 1000 bonus points per 5000 transferred - no limit. Cheers... Bruce |
"No Account Service Fee"
Pft. Instead of an "account service fee", everyone gets service fees for: Revalidation - change of ticketed flight/date (2500 points) Issuing ad hoc copy of your statement (2500 points) Booking less than 7 days in advance - Bronze only *BLEH* (5000 points) Stopover other than your destination for circular journeys (max of five stopovers) (10,000 points per stopover) % % Huh? I hope that means that if you've going LAX and had a stop over in NZ, that they're not going to charge you 10,000 points for it!? Ticket re-issue (change of name, class or route) (5000 points) Refund/re-credit of points after Award ticket cancellation (5000 points) %% %% So much for "refund" or "re-credit"! Reinstatment of cancelled Award flight or booking (5000 points) %%% %%% If you cancel, don't bother trying to get it again! 10,000 points all up! Bleh!!! Paper ticket surcharge where Qantas E-tickets are available (5000 points) %%%% %%%% This, if it is as it sounds to me, REALLY concerns me. If my travel agent gives me a paper ticket, instead of an E-Ticket because s/he thought it was easier, then *I* get slugged 5000 points?! That SUCKS! What a rip off! I can just imagine that my next holiday, I'll have 5000 points disappearing (and probably wouldn't even earn that much in the flight, anyway!) ... That's stealing, if you ask me! Replacement of lost ticket (A$50 or 5000 points) Replacement of card (A$25 or 2500 points) There are service fees, so don't be fooled by "No Account Service Fee"!!!! -_- |
Tier Credits are easier to get?
Maybe for people who fly as part of their jobs, or who are rich! Even if I flew 13,000 return, once a year, I'd only get 120 and be wiped! I HATE THE TIER CREDIT SYSTEM! It's biased against people who can't afford to travel more than once a year, and biased against people who don't travel for business. All that being a Bronze member gets you is FEES! ARGH! *really pissed off after reading the non-service-account-fees page* |
Bruceb - thanks for the feedback - good to have you answering stuff. Thank you http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
Now I made a boo boo above with my comment about lifetime status. I thought I read it was 7,500 credits, but it's 14,000 (re-reading the physical brochure) and that makes it much harder to make lifetime than before, but brings you into line with AA/UA who require 1,000,000 miles flown, but their top tier levels require 100k each year to qualify, ergo: 10 years at elite level and you're million miler/lifetime. At QF it's the same (basically) - 1400 credits for plat level, 10 years @ plat and you're a lifer. One other thing that I notice QF has not made any comment about in the booklet, and thus I would assume is permitted (but likely will be changed real soon now) is.... double upgrades There's nothing to say that an upgrade award can't be used on top of another so to go Y->J->F using miles. Did I read this wrong? I still think the tier credits screw most flyers. ------------------ UA 1K MEL A Star Alliance(tm) Member. |
Kunoichi - I believe the 5,000 points for paper tickets where e tix is available is in terms of award tickets only. ie: if you ask for a QF award ticket MEL-SYD and you demand it on paper, they're going to make you pay for it with 5,000 miles. I do not believe it related to paid for tix that you get from a t/a or whoever. Bruceb? Did I read it right?
------------------ UA 1K MEL A Star Alliance(tm) Member. |
I think what Qantas are trying to do with the changes is reward fliers more and reward those who make points with credit cards, etc less. Fliers with silver status or above will be earning more points even on discount economy fares - while the value of all those points earned from credit cards / etc is much less. I think Qantas have a large number of frequent fliers now who never actually fly Qantas (except on reward tickets), and the changes are an attempt to rewards those who do fly more (particularly on high revenue tickets).
|
Hi Kunoichi,
<<No Account Service Fee" Pft. Instead of an "account service fee", everyone gets service fees for:>> A lot of these fees existed previously (as well as the account service fee) – card fee, reissue, cancellation, etc. They were restated to make sure you are aware of them. The new fees can be easily avoided – late booking fee and change of date/time (note change of route/name was an existing fee). Do a quick check on some of the other programs and I think you will find these quite reasonable. << This, if it is as it sounds to me, REALLY concerns me. If my travel agent gives me a paper ticket, instead of an E-Ticket because s/he thought it was easier, then *I* get slugged 5000 points>> You can only book redemption tickets directly with Qantas, therefore you wont have this problem with your travel agent. The telesales staff will advise you if an e-ticket is available, then if you request a paper ticket you will be advised of the charge. This fee has been introduced for three reasons; firstly, e-tickets are subject to less abuse, secondly, they are easy to change and lastly, they are cheaper. <<Tier Credits are easier to get? Maybe for people who fly as part of their jobs, or who are rich!>> For everyone – look at SYD-MEL and SYD-PER – compare the old and the new table by class (you will find economy travellers receive the biggest increases) <<Even if I flew 13,000 return, once a year, I'd only get 120 and be wiped!>> Not anymore – that is the reason for lifetime tier credits. Also you will now earn an upgrade every 250 tier credits regardless of how long it takes you to get 250 tier credits. In your case you will get an upgrade every 2 years or so. Cheers… Bruce |
RichardMEL,
<<Now I made a boo boo above with my comment about lifetime status. I thought I read it was 7,500 credits, but it's 14,000 >> Yes. 7,000 for lifetime Silver and 14,000 for lifetime Gold. Means you can always go above these levels on an annual basis but never below. You may find some other interesting things been done around lifetime tier credits – it’s a new thing for them so give them a little bit of time to get it bedded down. Also note that tier credit upgrades are calculated from your lifetime tier credit level (so those that earn a low rates still get rewarded for long term loyalty). <<double upgrades>> No… sorry this is not allowed – one class of upgrade only. Y to J or J to P. <<Kunoichi - I believe the 5,000 points for paper tickets where e tix is available is in terms of award tickets only. >> Yep – only for award tickets and only where Qantas can offer you an e-ticket. Ozzie, << Fliers with silver status or above will be earning more points even on discount economy fares - while the value of all those points earned from credit cards / etc is much less. >> You need to consider both sides of the equation (earning and burning) at once for an accurate picture of how flying rewards work (I use number of trips to get one free as a proxy for flying value). For other rewards points sources just look at the cost in points – short-haul up, medium-haul constant and long-haul down. Cheers… Bruce |
I am generally happy with the new rules, except for redemptions on very short flights, for example Mel or Syd to Canberra. I used to be able to get Biz Cl. for 11250 points, but will now cost me 30000 - a huge jump.
Will miss the 11,000kms "Around-Oz" award for 37,500 points in Biz Class. [This message has been edited by LHR/MEL/Europe FF (edited 03-15-2001).] [This message has been edited by LHR/MEL/Europe FF (edited 03-15-2001).] [This message has been edited by LHR/MEL/Europe FF (edited 03-15-2001).] |
Okay, here is my question which I do not think has been asked or answered.
When QF shifted to OW and tier credits they sent each elite level flyer a new card and also extended the life of the elite level by around 12 months irrespective of how many miles/km/points you had and whether you are going to requalify. Nice gesture as there was no way I would have requalified. So does anyone (Bruce?) know what QF are doing with elite levels this time around and how are they rolling the changeover in terms of qualification dates. i.e. are they going to be reasonable and send out a new card with the dates extended or just send out the card with the current dates. This is somewhat important to me anyway as the changes take place on 15/9 and my silver status expires end 31/10! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif Mark |
LHR/MEL/Europe FF,
<<I used to be able to get Biz Cl. for 11250 points, but will now cost me 30000 - a huge jump.>> Correct, but this has been offset by a bigger increase in the number of points you earn on these routes. For example most economy members would earn 330 points for a return trip SYD-CBR under the old system and 2000 points for return under the new system. Koru Flyer, <<So does anyone (Bruce?) know what QF are doing with elite levels this time around and how are they rolling the changeover in terms of qualification dates.>> I am unaware of any changes to recognition program that are negative – that is all are positive for members (more tier credits for same flying and low qualification levels for some). Therefore it will be rolled through without any freezing or complimentary periods. I do know that members that have anniversary dates somewhere between now and 15 September will be reviewed under the most favourable option for you – in other words you should get the best of both worlds. New cards will be sent before 15th September based on your current status. You will continue to earn tier credits under the current zonal table until 15th September – no change. <<This is somewhat important to me anyway as the changes take place on 15/9 and my silver status expires end 31/10! >> You will receive the new card, but it will still expire on the same date - unless you meet the re-qualification level (600 points under the new system). Cheers… Bruce |
I was most concerned about the 5000 point penalty for changing and award flight date.I have a heap of tickets which I will not use untilwell into next year. i dont have a clue WHEN i will use them.I called the service centre and they told me that any ticket or booking issued BEFORE the changeover on 15th Sept will NOT iincur the penalty so it is my belief that anyone contemplating a flight next year get the ticket issued before then.
I also asked if the points (as they are in kms) will be reduced by 40% to miles . they said definitely NO. bruce can U confirm this..????? if that is true then anyone booking an around oz fare can use it till 15th sept 2002!!!! |
Tinky .. think your 1=1 question has been covered several times above. You lose nothing, but indeed gain 20% on card transfers.
Good point about the round OZ 37,500 J tix if that in fact is correct, that if booked before before Sept thay are good til Sept 2002. What are the "new rules" on those? A QF girl was telling me it is now capped at 4 stopovers or something within the 11,000 kms? Thanks for informed input Bruce .. nice to see someone with inside info taking the time to cover many of the questions here. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif ------------------ ~ Glen ~ |
Hi tinkybelle,
<<I was most concerned about the 5000 point penalty for changing and award flight date.>> For change of date/time the fee is 2500. The existing fee of 5000 points remains for change of name, class, route, etc. <<I have a heap of tickets which I will not use untilwell into next year.>> Why (just perplexed as to the reasoning!)? This is what the fee was introduced so that members would only book when they were sure of their travel plans - this is an effort to improve service levels for other members. <<they told me that any ticket or booking issued BEFORE the changeover on 15th Sept will NOT iincur the penalty so it is my belief that anyone contemplating a flight next year get the ticket issued before then.>> Correct. <<I also asked if the points (as they are in kms) will be reduced by 40% to miles . they said definitely NO.>> Correct. Points stay as points (no reduction in current balances). See above post on earning points for implications on the number of points earned under new versus old. <<if that is true then anyone booking an around oz fare can use it till 15th sept 2002!!!>> You can only book 355 days in advance - but yes you can book an around oz fare up to early Sept 2002 (must be booked before 15th Sept 2001). This long lead time was setup so that QF could meet the maximum number of redemptions under the old system (as points were earned under the old system) - although I am sure some sectors will be hard to get. Cheers... Bruce |
| All times are GMT -6. The time now is 9:10 am. |
This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.