Foxpro, some excellent questions, to which so far there seem to be no clear answers! We are still waiting a response from the QF guys..do you get a sneaking feeling this whole issue hasn't been thought through very carefully?

Well, whughes, you've thought it through carefully!

Do you think it might be worth taking a punt and just buying a batch of upgrade certificates on spec?

You may as well! I mean the worst that can happen (and which may well happen, I suspect) is that you'll get your points back..and you just might wind up doing very nicely indeed.

Guys, I am a newbie to the list so pardons in advance if I haven't assimilated the wealth of info in these last 5 pages.

Firstly, thks BruceB for all the help and advice provided. Darren , I have managed to talk to a lot of QF people previously but obviously not getting thru to the right one with my comments/ complaints /suggestions.

I am a VERY frequent flier , alternating between Star (UA) and OneWorld (Qantas). I make Gold about every 3-4 months. That effectively means I don't have a life, but that is another story :-(

To enable me to best make a decision as to who to give my travel to in the future, I would appreciate any answers from the forum.

From the QF website.
"One Upgrade credit will be issued for every 250 Status credits earned. Each Upgrade credit is valid for 24 months."

1. As at Sept 15 will the Tier credits presently in for the current year be granted upgrade credits. In other words if I have (say) 1000 tier credits , will I be given 4 upgrade credits.

2. In my last 9 years of flying as Silver or Gold with QF I have been upgraded ONCE. Which co-incidentally was last month JFK to SYD. (Sleeper seats are sooo nice , but BA provide doonas.)Other than loyalty to my friends who work at Qantas I am not sure (particularly after reading this post with the UA member input) whether QF really cares about their BC passengers. Now that I can use my upgrade certificates (assuming that Q1 above is answered in the affirmative) I presume that my next freebie will be 18 years away... Darren you teased with suggestions newer and better treats for gold holders?

3. On a extremely selfish note. Now that it is easier to get Gold/Platinum I presume the First Class lunge will be even more packed. Which leads me to

4. For the very frequent traveller, who has had zilch success in getting other than a form reply from e-mails to Qantas (Adam where are you...) , I need to be convinced as to where to put my companies travel dollar. I had put a wishlist to Qantas about a year back, two of which have been granted : International upgrades and partner recognition.
Also included were things like a free car wash at the valet park, ability to donate points to charity and a few others. Such as letting your CIP's know in advance about the BA leased aircraft routes where there isn't a ticketed First Class so that the Business seats are First sleepers. I would be happy to fly home Singapore to Sydney via Denpesar Darren ,if that plane is a regular. I am sure this board could come up with some other suggestions to Darren?

5. BA Sleeper seats in business class will get my vote for future travel into Singapore, BKG and LHR to HKG. I am serious enuff to change my ticket next week to BA17 from Sing to Sydney via Melbourne. Extra sector BUT the joy of horizontal flight http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

The points for BC to Europe are now so horrendously high. Granted that the fact I am Platinum will help for future travel, But I guess the smartest thing for now is to lock in the tickets before Sept at the old rate of 195K points.? Any comments on this.?

Any input would be appreciated. I really am trying to be smart and put my and my employees spend into one company , whether it is QF or Star Alliance is the question.

Guys, I am a newbie to the list so pardons in advance if I haven't assimilated the wealth of info in these last 5 pages.

Firstly, thks BruceB for all the help and advice provided. Darren , I have managed to talk to a lot of QF people previously but obviously not getting thru to the right one with my comments/ complaints /suggestions.

I am a VERY frequent flier , alternating between Star (UA) and OneWorld (Qantas). I make Gold about every 3-4 months. That effectively means I don't have a life, but that is another story :-(

To enable me to best make a decision as to who to give my travel to in the future, I would appreciate any answers from the forum.

From the QF website.
"One Upgrade credit will be issued for every 250 Status credits earned. Each Upgrade credit is valid for 24 months."

1. As at Sept 15 will the Tier credits presently in for the current year be granted upgrade credits. In other words if I have (say) 1000 tier credits , will I be given 4 upgrade credits.

2. In my last 9 years of flying as Silver or Gold with QF I have been upgraded ONCE. Which co-incidentally was last month JFK to SYD. (Sleeper seats are sooo nice , but BA provide doonas.)Other than loyalty to my friends who work at Qantas I am not sure (particularly after reading this post with the UA member input) whether QF really cares about their BC passengers. Now that I can use my upgrade certificates (assuming that Q1 above is answered in the affirmative) I presume that my next freebie will be 18 years away... Darren you teased with suggestions newer and better treats for gold holders?

3. On a extremely selfish note. Now that it is easier to get Gold/Platinum I presume the First Class lunge will be even more packed. Which leads me to

4. For the very frequent traveller, who has had zilch success in getting other than a form reply from e-mails to Qantas (Adam where are you...) , I need to be convinced as to where to put my companies travel dollar. I had put a wishlist to Qantas about a year back, two of which have been granted : International upgrades and partner recognition.
Also included were things like a free car wash at the valet park, ability to donate points to charity and a few others. Such as letting your CIP's know in advance about the BA leased aircraft routes where there isn't a ticketed First Class so that the Business seats are First sleepers. I would be happy to fly home Singapore to Sydney via Denpesar Darren ,if that plane is a regular. I am sure this board could come up with some other suggestions to Darren?

5. BA Sleeper seats in business class will get my vote for future travel into Singapore, BKG and LHR to HKG. I am serious enuff to change my ticket next week to BA17 from Sing to Sydney via Melbourne. Extra sector BUT the joy of horizontal flight http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

The points for BC to Europe are now so horrendously high. Granted that the fact I am Platinum will help for future travel, But I guess the smartest thing for now is to lock in the tickets before Sept at the old rate of 195K points.? Any comments on this.?

Any input would be appreciated. I really am trying to be smart and put my and my employees spend into one company , whether it is QF or Star Alliance is the question.

.

[This message has been edited by brianf (edited 02-07-2002).]

Yes, the lack of response has been remarkable! The reaction you got from QF doesn't surprise me: in fact, even that is extremely generous. I wouldn't be surprised if they just decide to dump the whole idea, and either convert all purchased certs back into points, or honour them at face value for what's left of their lifetime.

Hi All,

Being a newbie (and a lurker), I hesitated to post this previously. I thought someone else would beat me to the punch, so to speak.
I emailed Darren about a month ago enquiring about upgrade credits, and this is his response.....

Trudy,

Complimentary upgrades will be converted on a one for one basis to the new upgrade credits. Purchased upgrades will not. I have read the thread and am impressed by the analysis the team does. People requesting multiples purchaes of upgrade certificates will be advised of this at time of purchase.

Regrds
Darren Peisley


[This message has been edited by TravelTil (edited 05-14-2001).]

I haven't yet been so advised - but then neither have I yet received any certificates!

Was worth a try.

I haven't yet been so advised - but then neither have I yet received any certificates!

Was worth a try.

.

[This message has been edited by brianf (edited 02-07-2002).]

Well, the original release did not specify the basis on which certificates would be converted to credits. Given that there are at least 9 different kinds of cerificates in effect at present, to suggest that *all* of them should be converted on a 1-to-1 basis would be pretty ridiculous. For example, the freebie certs that elite FF's get are good for 3000/5500km, which in the new system will require 2 upgrade credits.
In view of the wide difference between the old and new systems, I repeat what I said above: the only fair and sensible way to handle paid certs is to either re-credit the points or honour them at face value for as long as they are valid.

Brian, I also contacted FF centre and was told that any existing domestic upgrades (those freebies I received as Gold) would be converted on a one for one basis.

I also asked if the tier credits presently in this year would be granted credit certificates. No go. From 15 Sept every 250 status credits will be given one upgrade certificate. Shame that no recognition is given to those you have been loyal THIS year.
Especially in lieu of the jump for FF BC awards to UK etc.

If up to 4 certificates can be converted than I will purchase some as you have done.
To be honest I didn't even know about purchasing the upgrades and if it only 5K points it is well worth it.

Take whatever the FF phone people tell you with a LARGE grain of salt. In my experiemce, they are quite frequently inaccurate even about the current system, let alone the new one. In particular, I find it totally implausible that only tier points accrued after 15/9 will count for tier credits: that would turn the whole thing into a huge lottery dependent on what month your membership starts! There are still 4 months to go until the new system starts; that leaves lots of time for chopping and changing, and I'll bet there will be plenty!

Let us take two case studies: one good, one bad.

A Platinum frequent flyer goes return from Sydney to London in First Class. Under the current scheme this (Gold) FF would get about 51,000 points. This is enough for a Business class return ticket from Melbourne to Auckland (I know there are a lot of other destinations available, but this is just an illustrative example).

Under the new scheme this FF would get 21,500 miles x 1.5, making 32,250. The add the 100% bonus from the base rate which makes it 44,000. The FF is 7,000 points WORSE OFF. However they would get 2 upgrade credits. the airline is therefore pushing people away from earning points for masses of free travel and instead encouraging them to buy tickets which they then upgrade, soaking up space and improving yields.

However, this (not so) happy FF can redeem a flight to Hong Kong in First for 125,000 point, a reduction of 35,000. Swings and roundabouts.

My general observations are that Qantas wish to push people away from free premium travel to economy (business is x2 the points than economy) and reward their domestic clientele who go Sydney-Melbourne-Sysney weekly.

Robertson, your arithmetic is a bit out..under the new scheme, SYD-LON return in FC gets about 54000 pts, not 44000 as you say..ie about 3000 pts better off; still not really enough to enthuse about! But I agree with your main point..the obvious thrust is to discourage BC/FC award travel (see my previous diatribe some way above).

whughes3: My apologies! If a passenger is a non-tier status, then they get the 21,000 miles x 1.5 = 31,500 (approximately). If they are Platinum then they get the 21,000 + 21,000 + 10,500 = 52,500 (again, approximate). Certainly different to my previous calculations.

I notice also that the ceiling for the no. of kms able to be travelled has been reduced from 50,000 to 41, 800 (I think). Under the old system, it occurred to me that one could redeem a trip from Sydney to New York, via Bangkok and London, for the same number of points as from Sydney to London, return. Obviously that little perk has been canned.

.

[This message has been edited by brianf (edited 02-07-2002).]

This thread is getting to far down, so I am bumping it up so everyone can find this helpful info and not miss out on this change.

The info about the upgrade certs changing to upgrade credits is most interesting.

Brian - where was it ever written that existing u/g certificates would be converted to upgrade credits on a one-to-one basis? The only citation I can see [p19] is that they will be converted [but no indication of value]. Please let me know where you read the 1:1 information. Thanks heaps. Koala

Koala, there is an item in the last FF newsletter (delivered late June) which states explicitly that u/g certs will be converted in this fashion (up to a max of 4).

whughes - many thanks indeed.
I thought that I had read that issue, but clearly there was lack of due diligence on my part. Note that QF have spelt out the conversion limit of 4 certs per member. Koala.