|
bruceb - No worries about your UA comments, and I quite agree.. they are losing pax and money, and pulling out service items by the loads right now (geez, no more godivas in C?! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif ). I can only think, though, that at some point the tide will turn (as it always does) and things will get better. I happen to personally find the Star RTW fares are good value for me vs. the oneworld(tm) fares, but it's all personal. As always bruce, your comments are valuable and welcome http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
ozstamps - a purely personal comment here - sure, your deal is good, you are using 1K status, 15% off certs, and SWU's to great advantage... but let's face it, normal joe's aren't going to get anything like that and it's not really so great to keep telling everyone how wonderful your deals are. It makes you look very condescending to many other people - specially the joes who fork out for paid C and F class. Just my opinion though http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif ------------------ UA 1K MEL A Star Alliance(tm) Member. |
RichardMel .. your name does not have to be JOE to get these. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
You just pick up the phone to UA and ask for LAX or SFO ($A999) or NYC ($A1299). No special handshakes, no vouchers, no passwords needed. 131777. And your next door neighbout gets to NYC, and gets a free flight anywhere in OZ at the end of it. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif ------------------ ~ Glen ~ |
Richard .. this is one time you need a visible email. please phone me FAST if you are reading this.
10 mins later: Maybe Richard is having dinner now? Anyone in OZ who is not dining, and wants to try and book RT fares OZ to Europe for $US60, give me a call before the web glitch gets fixed! o2-9958 1333 http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif [This message has been edited by ozstamps (edited 03-18-2001).] |
Hi Glen,
<<wants to try and book RT fares OZ to Europe for $US60>> Yep! How? Cheers... Bruce |
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/004301.html
I'll keep this brief as I am still playing with travelocity to try and snag one somehow! Thanks for the heads up ffhound! ------------------ ~ Glen ~ |
Cool Oz, i take back my other comment http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
------------------ UA 1K MEL A Star Alliance(tm) Member. |
Bruce,
I think you have done a great job in telling everyone about the new Qantas FF scheme. I don't think I will change from Qantas, even though I said I might. I have never had any problems with them and they have always been fantastic. I thought that Ozstamps was saying that anyone could get 40000 miles out of a return trip to NYC.... but that is only if you are a silver or something. I am just looking forward to seeing the new tables for one world to come up so I can decide which is the best way to redeem my points. Cheers Aaron |
Hi All,
As promised please find below the details for status matching. Qantas sometimes do one-offs (although not usually to Platinum). Please write to the following contact (no commitments given) – with a copy of your current card and last FF statement: Darren Peisley Manager Loyalty and Airline Alliances Qantas Airway Qantas Building QCA8, 203 Coward Street Mascot, NSW 2020 Cheers… Bruce |
Bruceb,
Re your query about my experience with getting upgrades..I can only say lately it's been a bit odd! Every time I have tried lately using the 'official' phone service, I have been told flatly that no upgrades were available..but when I get to the airport and ask nicely at checkin or the QC lounge, it's 'no worries mate!' (despite the fact that this is contrary to the published policy). Maybe I am getting preferential treatment for being Silver? Anyway, I hope international upgrades work a bit more predictably. On the general issues, I have been doing some detailed sums on what will happen to me, and I must agree that I personally will be considerably better off..the gains on economy swamp the losses on BC. However, I still think it's a bit bizarre that it will take *fewer* economy flights to earn a BC reward flight, but *more* BC flights to do the same! Finally, can you tell me what will happen with the 3000/5500km upgrade certs that elites get now..if unused by 15/9, how many 'upgrade credits' will they translate to? |
bruceb - but, but the $60 fare to europe is NOT on QF !! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif
As an aside to this, I just last night did some sums to help out a guy in rec.travel.air decide which FF program to go to: AN or UA. I worked out that for his desired award he could get 2.6 trips by going with UA vs. 1.1 (!) on AN. Crazy stuff! (I would have done *new* QF, but for two reasons: 1. he's flying in May/June, and b) he's flying * Carriers http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif ). Thought I'd throw this one in as an aside. Thanks for the comp info. I'd shout you a beer when I pass through SYD in a few weeks 'cept you wouldn't go near the GW Club would you? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif ------------------ UA 1K MEL A Star Alliance(tm) Member. |
Hi whughes3,
<<On the general issues, I have been doing some detailed sums on what will happen to me, and I must agree that I personally will be considerably better off..>> Good to hear http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif Now help spread the word to the other 2.6 million members. <<Finally, can you tell me what will happen with the 3000/5500km upgrade certs that elites get now..if unused by 15/9, how many 'upgrade credits' will they translate to?>> Darren will post the procedure. There is a translation process that benefits all, but gives a special bonus to the higher tiers. Have to sign-off for a few weeks - will be OS for 6 weeks. Thanks for positive feedback. I check the forum occasionally to see what scams you guys have going http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif so if you have any questions post them and I will try to respond (although could be a few weeks. Cheers... Bruce |
Originally posted by bers: I think they were having some problems - I was getting 500 Errors (internal server error) but things are back. Even more positive is the complimentary Gold (current silver) card for a partner for 2100 credits (cheaper than BA!) and the 250 Credits = 1 Upgrade Credit idea. And the 7000/14000 lifetime statuses are just amazing. That means there are some very easy ways to get lifetime. That's only 233 trips in Business from SYD-MEL. Not much really. The upgrades look pretty reasonable value and I love the status bonuses (25% extra for me!). The Bus to First upgrades are especially attractive. No expiry is a sound marketing decision - doesn't cost them much I assume but removes a great barrier in perceptions. I know they got rid of the service fee now but what about joining fees? Award levels will be signifcantly higher though. 40,000 New points for PER-MEL-PER Business class. I can get it for 37,500 old points today. Unfortunately domestic upgrades are now 1.6 times more expensive. It doesn't say anything about converting your 80,000 points to 50,000 after September, so maybe they are pricing awards high at this point as people will have lots of the "old" points to use up. I think maintaining it as a special balance and the old table (like AA did) would have been better. However, gone is the days of getting "bonus" points in the States on a D Class RTW but flying in first as AA doesn't have Business Class. Under 2700 miles, Business and First earn the same. But the miles thing has got me stumped. I just simply don't understand that bit. With kms used on UK roads soon (so I'm lead to believe), its inevitable that BA will change to Kms. Clearly, they've done a lot of matching to US programs. Maybe even too much! I am genuinely considering my decision to have AA as my top choice program. At this stage in my life, QF will be my main airline that I fly on and these changes take out most of the problems that caused me to give the check in lady the shock of her life last month when I asked to have my QF number removed to put an AA number in instead. She'd never done it before! Good series of changes and I suspect market forces will make them drop some of the levels of award bookings. For me, awards are not my priority - upgrades and status are. This is therefore great for me! Just my first thoughts. |
Bers - I do this thing for a living and am impressed by the enthuisiasm!Where have you got to - are you going to give Qantas your preferred program status. There are further recognition benefits to be announced for high value customer s and some surprise and delight as well.
Originally posted by bers: I think they were having some problems - I was getting 500 Errors (internal server error) but things are back. Even more positive is the complimentary Gold (current silver) card for a partner for 2100 credits (cheaper than BA!) and the 250 Credits = 1 Upgrade Credit idea. And the 7000/14000 lifetime statuses are just amazing. That means there are some very easy ways to get lifetime. That's only 233 trips in Business from SYD-MEL. Not much really. The upgrades look pretty reasonable value and I love the status bonuses (25% extra for me!). The Bus to First upgrades are especially attractive. No expiry is a sound marketing decision - doesn't cost them much I assume but removes a great barrier in perceptions. I know they got rid of the service fee now but what about joining fees? Award levels will be signifcantly higher though. 40,000 New points for PER-MEL-PER Business class. I can get it for 37,500 old points today. Unfortunately domestic upgrades are now 1.6 times more expensive. It doesn't say anything about converting your 80,000 points to 50,000 after September, so maybe they are pricing awards high at this point as people will have lots of the "old" points to use up. I think maintaining it as a special balance and the old table (like AA did) would have been better. However, gone is the days of getting "bonus" points in the States on a D Class RTW but flying in first as AA doesn't have Business Class. Under 2700 miles, Business and First earn the same. But the miles thing has got me stumped. I just simply don't understand that bit. With kms used on UK roads soon (so I'm lead to believe), its inevitable that BA will change to Kms. Clearly, they've done a lot of matching to US programs. Maybe even too much! I am genuinely considering my decision to have AA as my top choice program. At this stage in my life, QF will be my main airline that I fly on and these changes take out most of the problems that caused me to give the check in lady the shock of her life last month when I asked to have my QF number removed to put an AA number in instead. She'd never done it before! Good series of changes and I suspect market forces will make them drop some of the levels of award bookings. For me, awards are not my priority - upgrades and status are. This is therefore great for me! Just my first thoughts. |
Richard - email Darren on [email protected] on the qantas status issues.
Originally posted by RichardMEL: I would say that the move to Miles by QF is to bring them in-line with oneworld(tm) partners. The 1000 mile minimum is definately novel, and amazing for flights like MEL-SYD (439 actual miles according to UA). Imagine how much you could rack up on all those funky regional flights or even CBR-SYD shuttles? I wonder if QF would comp me gold or plat level if I show them my UA 1K card and statement. This certainly makes QF a viable and attractive option and Ansett has a large stake in it's coffin if it does not match/revamp GR which now seems even more sad and tired than before. Also of note 7500 credits for lifetime. If you need 1400 in a year to make plat, and given you make 10 minimum you could make lifetime gold in around 6 years of heavy flying or 750 short haul flights. If we assume 1000 miles/flight, that's 750,000 miles. That's *cheap* compared to AA/UA's million miler lifetime status! I wonder if these changes will impact the US programs in any way? |
Bruce has been doing a great job in answering all the queries as he did in being a key member of the design team and clearly he believes passionately that what we have designed is an enhanced program that balances both additional benfits without becoming unsustainable. To confirm the 20% bonus applies to all credit cards that enable points transfers to the QF program.
Originally posted by ozstamps: Well answered thanks Bruce. Do you work for QF or one of the plans? Seems like you have a lot of info there that is very specific. Yes, I can concur the ANZ bank scheme guy answered my first question as your post indicates - i.e. my EXISTING QF points balance in number will all become "miles" despite them being earnt flying KMs. All my ANZ 200,000 balanace will get transferred 1=1 PLUS the 20% bonus. Bruce .. triple checking that are you 100% sure that Amex MR balances definitely attracts this bonus 20%??? Just all seems to good to be true to me! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cool.gif |
You may find its a little difficult to buy 750 Red-E-Deals and fly them within the period! And gees do you really want to fly this route 750 times? For $49,000 I am sure we can make you a lifetime Silver member without having to fly .....
The change in name from Tier Creits to Status Credits was an atempt to make them more easily understood by members - our research showed few understood what they were for and how they were calculated; its really just a change of name.However, in doing so we did change this from a geographic (i.e. between x and Y) onto the distance basis. At the same time we generally increased the amount of credits for each route. The differences between discount and full economy for credits remains. The end result is that we have removed the anomalies which generally worked against members and have made it easier to get or retain tier status. The new levels apply for flights on or after 15 Sept. Originally posted by futaris: Something that nobody has mentioned is what happens to our status credits, after the changeover? Do they get converted to Tier Credits, or what? A good way to earn status would be to buy a head of Qantas Red-E-Deals for $66/flight, ie BNE-SYD, SYD-MEL, etc. If you get the flights after Sept 15, then you'll get 1000 points/flight, rather than the ~500 points you get now, plus 10 status points a flight. So for 750 short flights * $66 = $49,500 you could get 750,000 points, and lifetime membership? (Assuming all you did was fly between Sept 15 & Dec 31)... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif Does anyone know about special itineraries, containing overland segments? We used to be able to get those on the Old System. ie. BNE-DPS & JKT-BNE. Will these be available on the new system? What about the $999 BNE, SYD, MEL - LAX airfares? They'll still fall under the old 70% discount economy ones, right? But on the new system, you'd get ~23,000 points, and only 80 Tier Credits? Seems to be almost the same amount of Tier/Status for Discount Economy. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif I wish Commonwealth Bank True Awards didn't charge a fee of 2,500 points/yr to transfer to Qantas FF. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif Do Woolworths Ezy Banking charge any fees to xfer to Qantas FF? I know they are offering 1 Ezy Rewards point for every $1 transferred to their CC. And I guess you earn 1.25 points at Woolies. The one thing I really dislike is the stopover fee... Also, don't forget about: Make an Award booking using the online service between 1 March and 30 June 2001 and you'll earn a bonus 1,000 Frequent Flyer points for each booking. |
Richard. Like all other programs I am aware of you will only be able to upgrade one class. The booklet you have to date is only the announcement booklet. The new member benefit booklet is being finalised.
Originally posted by RichardMEL: Bruceb - thanks for the feedback - good to have you answering stuff. Thank you http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif Now I made a boo boo above with my comment about lifetime status. I thought I read it was 7,500 credits, but it's 14,000 (re-reading the physical brochure) and that makes it much harder to make lifetime than before, but brings you into line with AA/UA who require 1,000,000 miles flown, but their top tier levels require 100k each year to qualify, ergo: 10 years at elite level and you're million miler/lifetime. At QF it's the same (basically) - 1400 credits for plat level, 10 years @ plat and you're a lifer. One other thing that I notice QF has not made any comment about in the booklet, and thus I would assume is permitted (but likely will be changed real soon now) is.... double upgrades There's nothing to say that an upgrade award can't be used on top of another so to go Y->J->F using miles. Did I read this wrong? I still think the tier credits screw most flyers. |
Koru Flyer
Bruce is correct in stating the requalification level at 600 points. We will be using the new levels immediately and for instance have moved the Platinum level to 1400 from this month. With all the changes we will be running a manual eye over things but the intention is (given we have made it easier) that we will not be reissuing cards for an extended period and normal membership terms will apply. Originally posted by bruceb: LHR/MEL/Europe FF, <<I used to be able to get Biz Cl. for 11250 points, but will now cost me 30000 - a huge jump.>> Correct, but this has been offset by a bigger increase in the number of points you earn on these routes. For example most economy members would earn 330 points for a return trip SYD-CBR under the old system and 2000 points for return under the new system. Koru Flyer, <<So does anyone (Bruce?) know what QF are doing with elite levels this time around and how are they rolling the changeover in terms of qualification dates.>> I am unaware of any changes to recognition program that are negative – that is all are positive for members (more tier credits for same flying and low qualification levels for some). Therefore it will be rolled through without any freezing or complimentary periods. I do know that members that have anniversary dates somewhere between now and 15 September will be reviewed under the most favourable option for you – in other words you should get the best of both worlds. New cards will be sent before 15th September based on your current status. You will continue to earn tier credits under the current zonal table until 15th September – no change. <<This is somewhat important to me anyway as the changes take place on 15/9 and my silver status expires end 31/10! >> You will receive the new card, but it will still expire on the same date - unless you meet the re-qualification level (600 points under the new system). Cheers… Bruce |
All correct as reported.
Darren Originally posted by tinkybelle: I was most concerned about the 5000 point penalty for changing and award flight date.I have a heap of tickets which I will not use untilwell into next year. i dont have a clue WHEN i will use them.I called the service centre and they told me that any ticket or booking issued BEFORE the changeover on 15th Sept will NOT iincur the penalty so it is my belief that anyone contemplating a flight next year get the ticket issued before then. I also asked if the points (as they are in kms) will be reduced by 40% to miles . they said definitely NO. bruce can U confirm this..????? if that is true then anyone booking an around oz fare can use it till 15th sept 2002!!!! |
Whughes,
We will be converting your upgrade certificates to new electronic ones on 15 Sep. At the same toime we will extend their validity to 24 months and extend their use to the family definition used for redemptions. Golds and Silvers will get bonus certs. Darren Originally posted by whughes3: Bruceb, Re your query about my experience with getting upgrades..I can only say lately it's been a bit odd! Every time I have tried lately using the 'official' phone service, I have been told flatly that no upgrades were available..but when I get to the airport and ask nicely at checkin or the QC lounge, it's 'no worries mate!' (despite the fact that this is contrary to the published policy). Maybe I am getting preferential treatment for being Silver? Anyway, I hope international upgrades work a bit more predictably. On the general issues, I have been doing some detailed sums on what will happen to me, and I must agree that I personally will be considerably better off..the gains on economy swamp the losses on BC. However, I still think it's a bit bizarre that it will take *fewer* economy flights to earn a BC reward flight, but *more* BC flights to do the same! Finally, can you tell me what will happen with the 3000/5500km upgrade certs that elites get now..if unused by 15/9, how many 'upgrade credits' will they translate to? |
I just want to say a bit thank you, and welcome, to Darren - QF's Loyalty and Airline Alliance manager. Folks, this is the man at the top of the tree, or at least in a very good position to take on board all of your comments and concerns.
Thank you for sharing with us your comments, and aluding to future plans to be released. I think it is wonderful that you have taken the time to stop by here and answer our various posts and comments and I hope you are able to find the time to stop back and keep in touch with this forum, as I know many "road warriors" will be reading, and apprieciating at the very least to know that their voice can be heard, and that you are listening, even if it is with a private hat on rather than speaking speficially for QANTAS. I might side with the rival alliance, but I certainly very much apprieciate you coming in here and taking the time to post. I hope to see more from you in the future. cheers, Richard ------------------ UA 1K MEL A Star Alliance(tm) Member. |
I endorse Richard's remarks Darren, and welcome you also to FlyerTalk! This thread has to be the most informative one on the Qantas board ever. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
My comment about the Amex point transfer has been answered - thanks. I read the literature brochure today, and noticed photos of a number of Ozzie cards that DID attract the 20% bonus, but no photo of an Amex card or mention of it. The 4 x J class seats OZ-NYC for a week at the W in New York sounded like a neat deal tho!! If I transfer my million or so Amex points, it reads to me like that gives 2,000 entries into that "W" prize draw? i.e. one entry for each 5,000 point transfer? I am flying out in 12 hours for 5 nights at the Waldorf Astoria in New York, but 5 nights FREE at the W is a great competition .. congratulations to those involved for thinking of it. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cool.gif Darren, to answer a previous query, do you envisage at some point in the future that Flyer points in the QF scheme might be themselves able to be transferred to Hilton or Starwood etc as is often the case with the USA airline schemes? ------------------ ~ Glen ~ |
Darren,
Welcome to the baord, and thankyou for answering my query although, sad to know that my status will finally revert back to the bronze at the end of october http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif But given I have only flown 6 flights with QF in the last 2 or so years, I consider myself lucky to have survived this far! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif A question or two though. From my reading I have two silver domestic certs valid until Oct'01. On 15 September they will be converted (if unused) to two upgrade credits which I could then use for a trans-tasman one way intl upgrade? For me one of the biggest hassles of the QF programme was that I could only upgrade domestic Australia (and NZ but not worth it for 30 mins!) and as most of my flying is NZ to MEL/SYD/BNE or NZ to Asia/USA/europe I do not do much traveling in Australia domestically. Second question will they be valid for 24 months if converted with only 45 days left? For me anyway, the status bonus for elites and lifetime credit tally is making me look very hard at shifting my 150,000km/year from NZ (which I lovely flying dearly) to QF. Time will tell, and I suppose the comments of members here about the experiences of QF post 15/9 will be telling. Also will be very interesting to see what AN/NZ do as the ante has been raised. Mark |
Darren, can you confirm ny calculations (and maybe comment)
I recently took an award flight SYD-MEL(stopover)-WLG-SYD for 30,000 points. My calculation under the new scheme for this itinerary is 70,000 points - a 133% increase!! Is this right? If so, then it's ridiculous. A straight SYD-WLG-SYD would still be 30,000 and a SYD-MEL-SYD would be 20,000 so 2 separate itineraries would 'save' 20,000 points (70,000 - 50,000) yet involve an extra flight segment. In other words the argument for charging 10,000 per stopover to free up seats seems a bit shallow when, in this case, it would be cheaper (in points) to take an extra unneccessary flight segment. Value your input Adam |
Gee, I fly to Hobart (using 9,000 AN points) for a couple of days, and look at the size of this thread while I'm away. A few comments:
1) QF should look at its other problems first. If I ask someone a question via email, chances I will get an answer, often not a decent one, eventually. Get realistic. Answer your email promptly and efficiently, or don't have email at all. In particular, I booked a redemption flight online, then saw that an even better (for me) flight was available one day. I emailed QF and they didn't bother to reply for 6 days, by which time the seat wasn't available any more. It's utterly pathetic. Would a caller on the phone be put on hold for 6 days? If not, why can't email that requires 1 min of someone's time be answered promptly? 2) I was QF Blue for 3 years. Out of my 3 free domestic upgrade certs, I managed to use just one. The upgrade certs are practically useless, can't be converted back to points, can't be converted to lounge passes, can't be converted to anything useful. 3) I gave up on QF after several years of elite status because of the introduction of the pathetic tier credits system. The new version is better, but still awful. I went through 2 of my recent Star RTW trips and calculated the status credits I would have got on QF for same trip. Totals: 28785 miles and 28919 miles. With UA, that equals Star Silver + 15% of the way to Star Gold for each. With QF, my itineraries came to 240 credits in both cases. That's 69% of the way to OneWorld Ruby. Still a long way behind. 4) I don't really care how "points" are derived, but Australia has been metric for decades. Most people know the city-city distances in km, if they know them at all. Yes, I'm prepared to convert them to miles to work things out on a US airline, but I don't see why I should have to for Qantas. At the very least, QF should list all their distance tables in the correct units. 5) One question I haven't seen anyone ask: What about open-jaw redemptions? Ansett officially allows open-jaw redemptions. Some of the US airlines allow open-jaw redemptions. (eg. UA, even though I've never seen it in print anywhere.) If the new QF scheme not only (effectively) kills multiple-stop itineraries, but also has no option for open-jaws, this makes it quite inferior to other schemes. |
Koru Flyer,
The old domestic upgrades werent highly regarded by our members what with the conditions/non-transferability etc. In revamping this we will extend validity for the full 24 months. Look forward to continuing the dialogue on how we compare. I probably wont be logging on to this site as regularly as you so feel free to email me with comments. Might even convert you over time. Darren Originally posted by Koru Flyer: Darren, Welcome to the baord, and thankyou for answering my query although, sad to know that my status will finally revert back to the bronze at the end of october http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif But given I have only flown 6 flights with QF in the last 2 or so years, I consider myself lucky to have survived this far! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif A question or two though. From my reading I have two silver domestic certs valid until Oct'01. On 15 September they will be converted (if unused) to two upgrade credits which I could then use for a trans-tasman one way intl upgrade? For me one of the biggest hassles of the QF programme was that I could only upgrade domestic Australia (and NZ but not worth it for 30 mins!) and as most of my flying is NZ to MEL/SYD/BNE or NZ to Asia/USA/europe I do not do much traveling in Australia domestically. Second question will they be valid for 24 months if converted with only 45 days left? For me anyway, the status bonus for elites and lifetime credit tally is making me look very hard at shifting my 150,000km/year from NZ (which I lovely flying dearly) to QF. Time will tell, and I suppose the comments of members here about the experiences of QF post 15/9 will be telling. Also will be very interesting to see what AN/NZ do as the ante has been raised. Mark |
Adam,
I dont have my table with me; but let me set out how this works. Calculate the mileage based on the actual routing, refer to the table and calculate the points required. Add 10000 points for the stopover. I think you will find the cost is 40,000 points. On circle journeys one free stopover is allowed. i.e. SYD/MEL/ADL/SYD allows one stopover in either MEL or ADL, an extra adds 10,000 points. Darren Originally posted by adenda: Darren, can you confirm ny calculations (and maybe comment) I recently took an award flight SYD-MEL(stopover)-WLG-SYD for 30,000 points. My calculation under the new scheme for this itinerary is 70,000 points - a 133% increase!! Is this right? If so, then it's ridiculous. A straight SYD-WLG-SYD would still be 30,000 and a SYD-MEL-SYD would be 20,000 so 2 separate itineraries would 'save' 20,000 points (70,000 - 50,000) yet involve an extra flight segment. In other words the argument for charging 10,000 per stopover to free up seats seems a bit shallow when, in this case, it would be cheaper (in points) to take an extra unneccessary flight segment. Value your input Adam |
Kremmen,
Dont like to hear we are not meeting your expectations. I'll answer what I can at the moment but may have to come back to you on some specifics.See my comments below. Originally posted by Kremmen: Gee, I fly to Hobart (using 9,000 AN points) for a couple of days, and look at the size of this thread while I'm away. A few comments: 1) QF should look at its other problems first. If I ask someone a question via email, chances I will get an answer, often not a decent one, eventually. Get realistic. Answer your email promptly and efficiently, or don't have email at all. In particular, I booked a redemption flight online, then saw that an even better (for me) flight was available one day. I emailed QF and they didn't bother to reply for 6 days, by which time the seat wasn't available any more. It's utterly pathetic. Would a caller on the phone be put on hold for 6 days? If not, why can't email that requires 1 min of someone's time be answered promptly? This is one I'll come back to you on. Can you advise me where you sent the email to? We do recognise sometimes emails get lost in the system and are currently working on a new system to manage emails across the organisation better. 2) I was QF Blue for 3 years. Out of my 3 free domestic upgrade certs, I managed to use just one. The upgrade certs are practically useless, can't be converted back to points, can't be converted to lounge passes, can't be converted to anything useful. Totally agree the old domestic ones didnt work. This is why we have relaunched them, opened them up to International and allowed them to be transferable to partner 3) I gave up on QF after several years of elite status because of the introduction of the pathetic tier credits system. The new version is better, but still awful. I went through 2 of my recent Star RTW trips and calculated the status credits I would have got on QF for same trip. Totals: 28785 miles and 28919 miles. With UA, that equals Star Silver + 15% of the way to Star Gold for each. With QF, my itineraries came to 240 credits in both cases. That's 69% of the way to OneWorld Ruby. Cant check the calcs based on the data you have given me but 2 times 240 is 480 which is 80%/64% of the retain/attain level for oneworld sapphire. This doesnt seem to be too far off the UA figures? Still a long way behind. 4) I don't really care how "points" are derived, but Australia has been metric for decades. Most people know the city-city distances in km, if they know them at all. Yes, I'm prepared to convert them to miles to work things out on a US airline, but I don't see why I should have to for Qantas. At the very least, QF should list all their distance tables in the correct units. The new guide will have distances in miles as you suggest. 5) One question I haven't seen anyone ask: What about open-jaw redemptions? Ansett officially allows open-jaw redemptions. Some of the US airlines allow open-jaw redemptions. (eg. UA, even though I've never seen it in print anywhere.) If the new QF scheme not only (effectively) kills multiple-stop itineraries, but also has no option for open-jaws, this makes it quite inferior to other schemes. Cheers Darren |
To be somewhat fair to QF (now folks, you have to understand this is a big thing for me personally, noting my sig! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif ).... Comparing the RTW's may be a little less helpful. While it is true that nominally a 29,000 mile Star RTW will, in theory, get you 29,000 status miles (plus bits here and there for min flight credits, and so on) let's not forget, that for UA members at least, and *definately* AN members, not all partners credit equally (eg: LH 50% credit on non trans-atlantic Y flying, AN 70% credit, AC domestic Canadian 50% credit, NH domestic credit restrictions on certain fares, etc). Now QF haven't released how this kind of thing looks under the new scheme with oneworld(tm) but excluding the _known_ AA/BA translatic issue (and noting Q class is not valid on AA transatlantic under the terms and conditions of the new QF system), it seems that 1 mile=1 mile. One question for Darren therefore is, will partners credit minimum mileage of 1000 points too, or would you be constrained by their systems (eg: 500 for AA)? And are the status credits equal across oneworld(tm) partners?
------------------ UA 1K MEL A Star Alliance(tm) Member. [This message has been edited by RichardMEL (edited 03-21-2001).] |
Darren,
Thanks for your replies - although a bit hard to email you directly when no email address is supplied - although you are probably inundated expalining all these changes! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif Mark |
Darren,
1) I sent the email to the standard address published on your web site, [email protected] . Some days later, they passed it on to [email protected], whose response finally came 6 days after my original mail. Some time later, I noticed that my itinerary was marked online as having a change. The web site said to phone or contact [email protected] about it. I emailed to ask them what had changed, and they replied that I needed to phone reservations. When I emailed them back to tell them that their own web site gave their email address, they told me to contact [email protected] instead and to expect delays. I emailed [email protected], and they never replied. However, they did reset the status on my reservation so that I could see what the change was. (It was just a 5-min arrival difference on one flight.) 2) How will the new upgrade certificates be any different? The problem is having certificates at all. We turn up at the flight, there's no space in business class, so we can't use them. It should be a matter of having points deducted at flight time, not paying points for something that may never be usable. Also, I have been denied upgrades and yet seen space in business on the flight. 3) Yes, 2 times 240 is 480, which is 64% of the attain level for OneWorld Sapphire. And my 28785 + 28919 = 57704 UA miles is 115% of the attain level of Star Gold. 64% is a long way below 115%. 4) I was suggesting that the new guide should continue to use km, since those are the proper units in this country. We are not the 51st state of the USA. More importantly, I know distances, such as MEL-SYD being 707km, off the top of my head. Having to convert all your new tables from miles into km is tedious. (You could always print both, but the km are more useful.) 5) Good to see open-jaws will still be available. They weren't mentioned anywhere that I've seen. |
Koru - Darren can be emailed at
[email protected] as per his previous post in this thread http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif ------------------ UA 1K MEL A Star Alliance(tm) Member. |
Thanks
Mark |
I agree. This is not America, so we should use KMs.
I can not see the government and schools going *backwards* to teach children miles. Qantas has taken a huge step backwards by moving to a unit of measurement that is out moded and out dated, and only used in old fashioned countries. These countries need to move with the times. Qantas should not move backwards to cater for those who can't be bothered to update themselves from the old Imperial system to the modern metric system. DOWN WITH MILES! KMS ALL THE WAY! This is Australia, not America!! NO MILES! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/tongue.gif ------------------ Kun-chan... PS - Can you go and have a look at these URLs and tell me what you think at [email protected]? http://www.thekeep.org/~kunoichi/kunoichi/ax_images/ http://milesbar.com/join.asp?id=MBG1198 http://www.emailcash.com.au/join.asp?refer=C60997 BTW - Can you also have a look at my latest articles at: http://www.themestream.com/articles/237806.html |
Kunoichi doesn't need to worry about miles or km's - she can grab platinum status with posts http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif
I think it's time for a post to the "technical problems" section at the weird behaviour of the this thread.... ------------------ UA 1K MEL A Star Alliance(tm) Member. |
Hi Kunoichi,
Found an internet connection today http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif <<Qantas has taken a huge step backwards by moving to a unit of measurement that is out moded and out dated, and only used in old fashioned countries.>> Why don't we list all backwards and old fashioned countries that use miles for FF programs: 1. USA 2. Canada 3. England 4. Germany 5. Hong Kong 6. Singapore 7. Japan 8. France 9. Italy 10. Spain 11. Switzerland 12. South Africa 13. Mexico 14. South Korea 15. Mainland China 16. Thailand 17+. etc etc etc etc Did I leave out any other "backwards" countries? I think you will find it harder to list countries that operate FF programs in kms than vice versa. As you can see mileage for FF programs is not an American only thing. Also it is a bit hard for an International airline to shut out the rest of the world - "Pauline" style... We could just stick our head in the sand and pretend the rest of the world will switch there FF programs to kms! Cheers... Bruce |
Hi Kremmen,
<<I fly to Hobart (using 9,000 AN points)>> Short-haul comparison done previously... number of return trips required to earn a free trip has dropped on MEL-HBA from 10.4 to 10. <<I was QF Blue for 3 years. Out of my 3 free domestic upgrade certs, I managed to use just one. The upgrade certs are practically useless, can't be converted back to points, can't be converted to lounge passes, can't be converted to anything useful.>> That is why they are now electronic, valid for 2 years, can be used on spouses and can be combined with upgrade certs for international upgrades - to make them more useable. <<I went through 2 of my recent Star RTW trips and calculated the status credits I would have got on QF for same trip. Totals: 28785 miles and 28919 miles. With UA, that equals Star Silver + 15% of the way to Star Gold for each. With QF, my itineraries came to 240 credits in both cases. That's 69% of the way to OneWorld Ruby.>> Now redo the calcs for a mixture of classes. Qantas is faster for short-haul (compare SYD-MEL trips versus LAX-SFO trips), premium classes and full economy - slightly slower for long-haul discount economy. BUT for a normal mixture of travel it should come out about even (some SYD-MELs, 1 * RTW, etc) <<I'm prepared to convert them to miles to work things out on a US airline, but I don't see why I should have to for Qantas.>> Not just US airlines - see above post. Just about all other international airlines operate in miles <<At the very least, QF should list all their distance tables in the correct units.>> I am sure they will. The decision to list everything in miles was made to remove the confusion of having some stuff in miles and others in kms - thought it would be easier to evaluate and that members wouldn't think that by listing some stuff in kms and others in miles they were been ripped-off. Cheers... Bruce |
bruceb - Re: MEL-HBA - be careful with the wording. You say 10 trips, but you mean r/t trips (ie: 20 segments * 1000 min miles == 20,000 miles). Correct?
In the interests of equality though, I'll do the calculation for UA's program (we can say AN is 10.4 trips as their current program is identical to QF's previous...) MEL-HBA = 384 miles UA Credit = 268 miles * 70% for disc Y This would require 19 trips to get the 10,000 miles needed for an award on this route. QF wins Even at full 100% Y credit, you would need 13 trips to get 10,000 miles for an award. If a 500 mile minimum was given, it would be dead equal. Having said that, it's not a very useful comparision - a UA mileage plus member is *not* going to spend their lives flying MEL-HBA on KD metal to earn their miles - they'll fly transpacs and others where getting 10,000 miles is a piece of cake, specially for elite members. Personally I am not so sure that this is even a valid measure of how useful a program is. I mean, if I need to pay for 10 returns to get 1 free, it's likely I'd just pay for another - It would be an interesting exercise to see if FF members (this is a general comment, not aimed at QF btw) redeem awards that are *not* part of their regular travel patterns (classic example of the businessman who flies weekly MEL-SYD for work, and redeems to take himself and partner off to BKK for a holiday or something). ------------------ UA 1K MEL A Star Alliance(tm) Member. |
Originally posted by bruceb: Short-haul comparison done previously... number of return trips required to earn a free trip has dropped on MEL-HBA from 10.4 to 10. [ ... ] Now redo the calcs for a mixture of classes. Qantas is faster for short-haul (compare SYD-MEL trips versus LAX-SFO trips), premium classes and full economy - slightly slower for long-haul discount economy. BUT for a normal mixture of travel it should come out about even (some SYD-MELs, 1 * RTW, etc) [ ... ] The decision to list everything in miles was made to remove the confusion of having some stuff in miles and others in kms - thought it would be easier to evaluate 2) You're not being fair here. My RTW's are a mixture of long and short hauls. You're effectively saying that a "normal" mixture is some long hauls with some short hauls and a whole lot more short hauls thrown in too. I'm not sure it would even work then, since those short hauls are worth very few tier credits in discount economy. 3) Similar to point 1, people in this country have been measuring distances in km for, in some cases, all their lives. Putting distances in miles is a pain, since we already know them in km. Put a table saying zone 2 is 2001-5400 miles in front of Australians, and I suspect you will find they will generally have no idea what that means in practical terms. If the table said 3220-8690km, it would be much more useful. |
I suppose QF's view is that the clear majority of the people they are aiming the changes at are not people who fly around the world, but the MEL-SYD-BNE "road warriors" who fly a lot on business trips and the like. The benefits to them are twofold: business trips are likely booked in full Y (at least one previous employer I had booked _everything_ in full Y for business trips (or J for bigwigs) for the flexability of the fare) and thus the status credits pile up along with the mileage. Sure, you will have a bunch of longer haul pax doing runs to the US and europe, but I'd bet they would be in the majority of the 2 million+ QF FF members.
------------------ UA 1K MEL A Star Alliance(tm) Member. |
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