massive QF FF programme changes
Mar 15, 2001, 12:53 am
#16
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 108
Hi Ozstamps and wannabe flyer,
You get the 20% bonus on any credit card points transferred to QFF points before 30th June. There is no limit (so yes Ozstamps you get 200,000 bonus points for 1,000,000 amex points transferred).
It is better to transfer before the 30th June if you want the bonus.
Reason – promote the changes to points expiry and as a promotion for the announcement of the new program.
Hi Guava,
I like you ingenuity in finding tier credit loopholes.
Complicated/less complicated: all tables are now based on the same 5 zones – tier credits, redemptions and upgrades. One of the reasons you can find loopholes – that is what happens when you simplify a structure. In the past the tier credit table was based on geographic table that had to be updated every time Qantas added another route, the upgrade table was completely separate from redemption table and the redemption table had 11 zones (including a separate international and domestic section).
Redemption example negative:
1. The km to miles conversion is incorrect (although I understand why you think it would work that way) – as discussed above you earn more points for flying the same distance under the new program and other points (credit card, etc) continue to transfer at the same rate (exception is the current bonus on credit card transfers.
2. 11,000 km distance is not realistic for most Australian redemptions (e.g. SYD-PER return is only 4060 miles / 6540 kms) so it is difficult to clock up an 11,000 km redemption wholly within Australia (although that is not to say it can’t be done). It simply doesn’t impact most redemptions. Most Domestic redemptions will fall into zone 1 or 2.
3. Stopover rule discussed in the above post.
4. Partner program redemption rates will most likely update to reflect the new QF tables.
Cheers… Bruce
You get the 20% bonus on any credit card points transferred to QFF points before 30th June. There is no limit (so yes Ozstamps you get 200,000 bonus points for 1,000,000 amex points transferred).
It is better to transfer before the 30th June if you want the bonus.
Reason – promote the changes to points expiry and as a promotion for the announcement of the new program.
Hi Guava,
I like you ingenuity in finding tier credit loopholes.
Complicated/less complicated: all tables are now based on the same 5 zones – tier credits, redemptions and upgrades. One of the reasons you can find loopholes – that is what happens when you simplify a structure. In the past the tier credit table was based on geographic table that had to be updated every time Qantas added another route, the upgrade table was completely separate from redemption table and the redemption table had 11 zones (including a separate international and domestic section).
Redemption example negative:
1. The km to miles conversion is incorrect (although I understand why you think it would work that way) – as discussed above you earn more points for flying the same distance under the new program and other points (credit card, etc) continue to transfer at the same rate (exception is the current bonus on credit card transfers.
2. 11,000 km distance is not realistic for most Australian redemptions (e.g. SYD-PER return is only 4060 miles / 6540 kms) so it is difficult to clock up an 11,000 km redemption wholly within Australia (although that is not to say it can’t be done). It simply doesn’t impact most redemptions. Most Domestic redemptions will fall into zone 1 or 2.
3. Stopover rule discussed in the above post.
4. Partner program redemption rates will most likely update to reflect the new QF tables.
Cheers… Bruce
Mar 15, 2001, 1:01 am
#17
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 108
<<Also, if that 1000 mile minimum thing applies to segments, there are going to be quite a few popular trips of less than 2000 miles which earn 4000 points (eg from Sydney to many Queensland locations which must be accessed via Brisbane). Can this be right?>>
Yes. If you travel 4 segments then you earn a minimum of 1000 points for each segment
Cheers... bruce[/B][/QUOTE]
Yes. If you travel 4 segments then you earn a minimum of 1000 points for each segment
Cheers... bruce[/B][/QUOTE]
Mar 15, 2001, 1:07 am
#18
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Sunny SYDNEY!
Programs: UA Million Miler. (1.9M) Virgin Platinum. HH Diamond + SPG Gold
Posts: 32,330
Well answered thanks Bruce. Do you work for QF or one of the plans? Seems like you have a lot of info there that is very specific.
Yes, I can concur the ANZ bank scheme guy answered my first question as your post indicates - i.e. my EXISTING QF points balance in number will all become "miles" despite them being earnt flying KMs. All my ANZ 200,000 balanace will get transferred 1=1 PLUS the 20% bonus.
Bruce .. triple checking that are you 100% sure that Amex MR balances definitely attracts this bonus 20%??? Just all seems to good to be true to me!
------------------
~ Glen ~
Yes, I can concur the ANZ bank scheme guy answered my first question as your post indicates - i.e. my EXISTING QF points balance in number will all become "miles" despite them being earnt flying KMs. All my ANZ 200,000 balanace will get transferred 1=1 PLUS the 20% bonus.
Bruce .. triple checking that are you 100% sure that Amex MR balances definitely attracts this bonus 20%??? Just all seems to good to be true to me!
------------------
~ Glen ~
Mar 15, 2001, 1:10 am
#19
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Melbourne, Vic., Australia.
Programs: QF Platinum One (LTG), UA Plat IHG Plat
Posts: 5,836
So Bruceb do you work for QF? 
Does QF comp status? I may be interested in jumping ship if they might match my UA status or at least give me Gold.
I still have a problem with the tier credits though. If I book a RTW on UA I can get at least the first elite level (Star Silver) I doubt I can do that with QF's tier credits system, which is a little annoying.
I am sure it will take time for the changes to sink in and people to work out just what is the best feature for them.
One bonus for me: I refused to pay the QF admin fee and suddenly I've been reinstated as a loyal bronze flyer. cool!
Bonus for oz flyers: Global Rewards will _have_ to match. There is no way they can stay the same way they are and as we know AN has always closely mirrored QF. Oh, they will change the names, fiddle with it, maybe only have a 500 mile minimum (like big brother UA) etc, but they will have to match the major points of this: 100% for all Y fares for one, and others. If they don't they can kiss goodbye to a whole lot of flyers who will simply say "You are the weakest link Ansett. Goodbye!" and jump ship.
Interesting times ahead!!
The question that has not been asked yet is "why?" - ignoring the QF press hype, QF already has a very strong position: They have over 2 million FF members (way more than AN) and a dominant share of the domestic market. If you assume that people interested in FF programs are going to ignore budget carriers like DJ and VQ and focus on AN/QF then the old system worked fine where both programs happily screwed you royally (and they ignored the people who went offshore for membership benefits). It would be interesting to know how much prodding QF got from oneworld partners on this one, because now their program is far more in sync, and on some levels better than, some of their own partners.
This can only be good for everyone is my conclusion!
------------------
UA 1K MEL
A Star Alliance(tm) Member.
Does QF comp status? I may be interested in jumping ship if they might match my UA status or at least give me Gold.
I still have a problem with the tier credits though. If I book a RTW on UA I can get at least the first elite level (Star Silver) I doubt I can do that with QF's tier credits system, which is a little annoying.
I am sure it will take time for the changes to sink in and people to work out just what is the best feature for them.
One bonus for me: I refused to pay the QF admin fee and suddenly I've been reinstated as a loyal bronze flyer. cool!
Bonus for oz flyers: Global Rewards will _have_ to match. There is no way they can stay the same way they are and as we know AN has always closely mirrored QF. Oh, they will change the names, fiddle with it, maybe only have a 500 mile minimum (like big brother UA) etc, but they will have to match the major points of this: 100% for all Y fares for one, and others. If they don't they can kiss goodbye to a whole lot of flyers who will simply say "You are the weakest link Ansett. Goodbye!" and jump ship.
Interesting times ahead!!
The question that has not been asked yet is "why?" - ignoring the QF press hype, QF already has a very strong position: They have over 2 million FF members (way more than AN) and a dominant share of the domestic market. If you assume that people interested in FF programs are going to ignore budget carriers like DJ and VQ and focus on AN/QF then the old system worked fine where both programs happily screwed you royally (and they ignored the people who went offshore for membership benefits). It would be interesting to know how much prodding QF got from oneworld partners on this one, because now their program is far more in sync, and on some levels better than, some of their own partners.
This can only be good for everyone is my conclusion!
------------------
UA 1K MEL
A Star Alliance(tm) Member.
Mar 15, 2001, 2:09 am
#20
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Melbourne,Victoria,Australia
Programs: QF Plat (Life Gold), SQ PPS
Posts: 1,072
Having had a chance to read the fine print, all I can say is: NOT IMPRESSED!!
1) most flights (except short domestics) score *fewer* points (as I surmised above, the change to miles is just a kludge to conceal this).
2) most reward flights (especially domestic and/or BC) require *more* points.
Most of the other changes are just a great leap sideways; international upgrades are the only real 'plus', assuming that they are actually available in practice.
1) most flights (except short domestics) score *fewer* points (as I surmised above, the change to miles is just a kludge to conceal this).
2) most reward flights (especially domestic and/or BC) require *more* points.
Most of the other changes are just a great leap sideways; international upgrades are the only real 'plus', assuming that they are actually available in practice.
Mar 15, 2001, 2:34 am
#21
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Sydney, Aus
Programs: QF WP, Starwood Gold, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Gold, Avis President's Club, Amex Platinum
Posts: 2,880
An another interesting change - as a member living in the UK. I've stayed with Qantas as I am only living here for a couple of years - but have of course always used an Australian address so that I can still earn points on discount economy flights. It seems that the restrictions as to residents of the UK and Europe have been lifted - I can actually use my real address !
Mar 15, 2001, 2:58 am
#22
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 108
whughes3,
1. Earning changes: Qantas will give away more points under the new system than the old.
· Short domestic earn substantially more points.
· Just about all long-haul economy travel was classified “discount” under the old system and therefore moves from 70% to 100%.
· Tier bonuses have a big impact – for example SYD-LAX on just about all economy tickets you earn 11% less as a Bronze, 11% more as a Silver, 33% more as a Gold and 77% more as a Platinum. Also combine this with a reduction in the redemption cost of 20%(100,000 to 80,000).
2. Cost of reward changes:
· Ultra short-haul has increased as stated – but is more than offset by the number of points earned on those routes (see number of trips example above).
· Other short-haul is mixed 17,000, 25,000 and some of the 30,000 zone combined into the 20,000 zone – although earn rates also increased (e.g. SYD-MEL number of trips to earn a free one has dropped)
· Medium-haul (SYD-PER, SYD-AKL) remain unchanged.
· Long-haul (SYD-HKG, SYD-LAX, SYD-LHR) – dropped. For example, SYD-HKG from 80,000 to 50,000; SYD-LAX from 100,000 to 80,000; SYD-LHR from 130,000 to 110,000.
· Business class prices have been increased but this is offset by the availability of upgrades (both tier credit based and points based). Unfortunately there are only a limited number of seats at the front of the plane.
Ozstamps and RichardMEL,
Tier credits (RTW): the new tier credit structure should make it possible to get to Silver on an economy RTW ticket – as you do earn tier credits on other OneWorld carriers – depends on the number of sectors. Also the change from geographic to distance will make it much easier if you are travelling in non-Qantas areas (e.g. North to South America).
Yes, AMEX transfer gets a 20% bonus – no limit.
Does QF comp status? No official program, but they do sometimes do one-offs (I will ask who you should write to and get back to this thread).
Why? Be more competitive both Internationally and Domestically. Programs are becoming more global…. As I have read previous posts by ozstamps it is possible to join another program and “arbitrage” the benefits across programs. Therefore QF needs to be roughly inline with our major partners (some things better and some not). The list goes on and on….
Cheers… Bruce
[This message has been edited by bruceb (edited 04-30-2001).]
1. Earning changes: Qantas will give away more points under the new system than the old.
· Short domestic earn substantially more points.
· Just about all long-haul economy travel was classified “discount” under the old system and therefore moves from 70% to 100%.
· Tier bonuses have a big impact – for example SYD-LAX on just about all economy tickets you earn 11% less as a Bronze, 11% more as a Silver, 33% more as a Gold and 77% more as a Platinum. Also combine this with a reduction in the redemption cost of 20%(100,000 to 80,000).
2. Cost of reward changes:
· Ultra short-haul has increased as stated – but is more than offset by the number of points earned on those routes (see number of trips example above).
· Other short-haul is mixed 17,000, 25,000 and some of the 30,000 zone combined into the 20,000 zone – although earn rates also increased (e.g. SYD-MEL number of trips to earn a free one has dropped)
· Medium-haul (SYD-PER, SYD-AKL) remain unchanged.
· Long-haul (SYD-HKG, SYD-LAX, SYD-LHR) – dropped. For example, SYD-HKG from 80,000 to 50,000; SYD-LAX from 100,000 to 80,000; SYD-LHR from 130,000 to 110,000.
· Business class prices have been increased but this is offset by the availability of upgrades (both tier credit based and points based). Unfortunately there are only a limited number of seats at the front of the plane.
Ozstamps and RichardMEL,
Tier credits (RTW): the new tier credit structure should make it possible to get to Silver on an economy RTW ticket – as you do earn tier credits on other OneWorld carriers – depends on the number of sectors. Also the change from geographic to distance will make it much easier if you are travelling in non-Qantas areas (e.g. North to South America).
Yes, AMEX transfer gets a 20% bonus – no limit.
Does QF comp status? No official program, but they do sometimes do one-offs (I will ask who you should write to and get back to this thread).
Why? Be more competitive both Internationally and Domestically. Programs are becoming more global…. As I have read previous posts by ozstamps it is possible to join another program and “arbitrage” the benefits across programs. Therefore QF needs to be roughly inline with our major partners (some things better and some not). The list goes on and on….
Cheers… Bruce
[This message has been edited by bruceb (edited 04-30-2001).]
Mar 15, 2001, 3:10 am
#24
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 1,424
Something that nobody has mentioned is what happens to our status credits, after the changeover? Do they get converted to Tier Credits, or what?
A good way to earn status would be to buy a head of Qantas Red-E-Deals for $66/flight, ie BNE-SYD, SYD-MEL, etc. If you get the flights after Sept 15, then you'll get 1000 points/flight, rather than the ~500 points you get now, plus 10 status points a flight.
So for 750 short flights * $66 = $49,500 you could get 750,000 points, and lifetime membership? (Assuming all you did was fly between Sept 15 & Dec 31)...
Does anyone know about special itineraries, containing overland segments? We used to be able to get those on the Old System. ie. BNE-DPS & JKT-BNE. Will these be available on the new system?
What about the $999 BNE, SYD, MEL - LAX airfares? They'll still fall under the old 70% discount economy ones, right? But on the new system, you'd get ~23,000 points, and only 80 Tier Credits? Seems to be almost the same amount of Tier/Status for Discount Economy.
I wish Commonwealth Bank True Awards didn't charge a fee of 2,500 points/yr to transfer to Qantas FF.
Do Woolworths Ezy Banking charge any fees to xfer to Qantas FF? I know they are offering 1 Ezy Rewards point for every $1 transferred to their CC. And I guess you earn 1.25 points at Woolies.
The one thing I really dislike is the stopover fee...
Also, don't forget about:
Make an Award booking using the online service between 1 March and 30 June 2001 and you'll earn a bonus 1,000 Frequent Flyer points for each booking.
A good way to earn status would be to buy a head of Qantas Red-E-Deals for $66/flight, ie BNE-SYD, SYD-MEL, etc. If you get the flights after Sept 15, then you'll get 1000 points/flight, rather than the ~500 points you get now, plus 10 status points a flight.
So for 750 short flights * $66 = $49,500 you could get 750,000 points, and lifetime membership? (Assuming all you did was fly between Sept 15 & Dec 31)...
Does anyone know about special itineraries, containing overland segments? We used to be able to get those on the Old System. ie. BNE-DPS & JKT-BNE. Will these be available on the new system?
What about the $999 BNE, SYD, MEL - LAX airfares? They'll still fall under the old 70% discount economy ones, right? But on the new system, you'd get ~23,000 points, and only 80 Tier Credits? Seems to be almost the same amount of Tier/Status for Discount Economy.
I wish Commonwealth Bank True Awards didn't charge a fee of 2,500 points/yr to transfer to Qantas FF.
Do Woolworths Ezy Banking charge any fees to xfer to Qantas FF? I know they are offering 1 Ezy Rewards point for every $1 transferred to their CC. And I guess you earn 1.25 points at Woolies.
The one thing I really dislike is the stopover fee...
Also, don't forget about:
Make an Award booking using the online service between 1 March and 30 June 2001 and you'll earn a bonus 1,000 Frequent Flyer points for each booking.
Mar 15, 2001, 3:28 am
#26
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 108
futaris,
<<Something that nobody has mentioned is what happens to our status credits, after the changeover? Do they get converted to Tier Credits, or what?>>
Tier credits and status credits are the same thing... no conversion. Just earn more now.
<<What about the $999 BNE, SYD, MEL - LAX airfares? They'll still fall under the old 70% discount economy ones, right? But on the new system, you'd get ~23,000 points, and only 80 Tier Credits? Seems to be almost the same amount of Tier/Status for Discount Economy. >>
Before 15th September you earn under the old structure (70% kms), after 15th September you earn under the new (100% miles + tier bonuses). No problem with the above fare - either new or old system.
Cheers... Bruce
<<Something that nobody has mentioned is what happens to our status credits, after the changeover? Do they get converted to Tier Credits, or what?>>
Tier credits and status credits are the same thing... no conversion. Just earn more now.
<<What about the $999 BNE, SYD, MEL - LAX airfares? They'll still fall under the old 70% discount economy ones, right? But on the new system, you'd get ~23,000 points, and only 80 Tier Credits? Seems to be almost the same amount of Tier/Status for Discount Economy. >>
Before 15th September you earn under the old structure (70% kms), after 15th September you earn under the new (100% miles + tier bonuses). No problem with the above fare - either new or old system.
Cheers... Bruce
Mar 15, 2001, 3:51 am
#28
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Mordialloc, Vic, Australia
Posts: 230
"No Account Service Fee"
Pft. Instead of an "account service fee", everyone gets service fees for:
Revalidation - change of ticketed flight/date (2500 points)
Issuing ad hoc copy of your statement (2500 points)
Booking less than 7 days in advance - Bronze only *BLEH* (5000 points)
Stopover other than your destination for circular journeys (max of five stopovers) (10,000 points per stopover) %
% Huh? I hope that means that if you've going LAX and had a stop over in NZ, that they're not going to charge you 10,000 points for it!?
Ticket re-issue (change of name, class or route) (5000 points)
Refund/re-credit of points after Award ticket cancellation (5000 points) %%
%% So much for "refund" or "re-credit"!
Reinstatment of cancelled Award flight or booking (5000 points) %%%
%%% If you cancel, don't bother trying to get it again! 10,000 points all up! Bleh!!!
Paper ticket surcharge where Qantas E-tickets are available (5000 points) %%%%
%%%% This, if it is as it sounds to me, REALLY concerns me. If my travel agent gives me a paper ticket, instead of an E-Ticket because s/he thought it was easier, then *I* get slugged 5000 points?! That SUCKS! What a rip off! I can just imagine that my next holiday, I'll have 5000 points disappearing (and probably wouldn't even earn that much in the flight, anyway!) ... That's stealing, if you ask me!
Replacement of lost ticket (A$50 or 5000 points)
Replacement of card (A$25 or 2500 points)
There are service fees, so don't be fooled by "No Account Service Fee"!!!! -_-
Pft. Instead of an "account service fee", everyone gets service fees for:
Revalidation - change of ticketed flight/date (2500 points)
Issuing ad hoc copy of your statement (2500 points)
Booking less than 7 days in advance - Bronze only *BLEH* (5000 points)
Stopover other than your destination for circular journeys (max of five stopovers) (10,000 points per stopover) %
% Huh? I hope that means that if you've going LAX and had a stop over in NZ, that they're not going to charge you 10,000 points for it!?
Ticket re-issue (change of name, class or route) (5000 points)
Refund/re-credit of points after Award ticket cancellation (5000 points) %%
%% So much for "refund" or "re-credit"!
Reinstatment of cancelled Award flight or booking (5000 points) %%%
%%% If you cancel, don't bother trying to get it again! 10,000 points all up! Bleh!!!
Paper ticket surcharge where Qantas E-tickets are available (5000 points) %%%%
%%%% This, if it is as it sounds to me, REALLY concerns me. If my travel agent gives me a paper ticket, instead of an E-Ticket because s/he thought it was easier, then *I* get slugged 5000 points?! That SUCKS! What a rip off! I can just imagine that my next holiday, I'll have 5000 points disappearing (and probably wouldn't even earn that much in the flight, anyway!) ... That's stealing, if you ask me!
Replacement of lost ticket (A$50 or 5000 points)
Replacement of card (A$25 or 2500 points)
There are service fees, so don't be fooled by "No Account Service Fee"!!!! -_-
Mar 15, 2001, 4:09 am
#29
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Mordialloc, Vic, Australia
Posts: 230
Tier Credits are easier to get?
Maybe for people who fly as part of their jobs, or who are rich!
Even if I flew 13,000 return, once a year, I'd only get 120 and be wiped!
I HATE THE TIER CREDIT SYSTEM! It's biased against people who can't afford to travel more than once a year, and biased against people who don't travel for business.
All that being a Bronze member gets you is FEES! ARGH!
*really pissed off after reading the non-service-account-fees page*
Maybe for people who fly as part of their jobs, or who are rich!
Even if I flew 13,000 return, once a year, I'd only get 120 and be wiped!
I HATE THE TIER CREDIT SYSTEM! It's biased against people who can't afford to travel more than once a year, and biased against people who don't travel for business.
All that being a Bronze member gets you is FEES! ARGH!
*really pissed off after reading the non-service-account-fees page*
Mar 15, 2001, 4:52 am
#30
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Melbourne, Vic., Australia.
Programs: QF Platinum One (LTG), UA Plat IHG Plat
Posts: 5,836
Bruceb - thanks for the feedback - good to have you answering stuff. Thank you
Now I made a boo boo above with my comment about lifetime status. I thought I read it was 7,500 credits, but it's 14,000 (re-reading the physical brochure) and that makes it much harder to make lifetime than before, but brings you into line with AA/UA who require 1,000,000 miles flown, but their top tier levels require 100k each year to qualify, ergo: 10 years at elite level and you're million miler/lifetime. At QF it's the same (basically) - 1400 credits for plat level, 10 years @ plat and you're a lifer.
One other thing that I notice QF has not made any comment about in the booklet, and thus I would assume is permitted (but likely will be changed real soon now) is....
double upgrades
There's nothing to say that an upgrade award can't be used on top of another so to go Y->J->F using miles. Did I read this wrong?
I still think the tier credits screw most flyers.
------------------
UA 1K MEL
A Star Alliance(tm) Member.
Now I made a boo boo above with my comment about lifetime status. I thought I read it was 7,500 credits, but it's 14,000 (re-reading the physical brochure) and that makes it much harder to make lifetime than before, but brings you into line with AA/UA who require 1,000,000 miles flown, but their top tier levels require 100k each year to qualify, ergo: 10 years at elite level and you're million miler/lifetime. At QF it's the same (basically) - 1400 credits for plat level, 10 years @ plat and you're a lifer.
One other thing that I notice QF has not made any comment about in the booklet, and thus I would assume is permitted (but likely will be changed real soon now) is....
double upgrades
There's nothing to say that an upgrade award can't be used on top of another so to go Y->J->F using miles. Did I read this wrong?
I still think the tier credits screw most flyers.
------------------
UA 1K MEL
A Star Alliance(tm) Member.