Weighing all wheelie cases

Old Dec 8, 2018, 12:31 am
  #91  
og
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QF has a specific policy and the punters say “that sucks” and we want change. Simple.
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Old Dec 8, 2018, 12:41 am
  #92  
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Originally Posted by LHR/MEL/Europe FF
It matters because the airline has rarely enforced this before and have created an expectation that, winthin reason, your cabin baggage will be fine. Future tickets have already been purchased with the expecation that bags will be fine as long as they meet current practice.
Current tickets have been purchased with the rules in place - that the people are flaunting it , does not mean that the rule is not there

The speed limit on a road may be 70mph and people may regularly exceed it - that gives no excuse for the day that a speed camera is installed

Originally Posted by Platy
So you really do perceive a world wherein an airline should disregard the thoughts and perceptions of its customers? That a business should design its product, set its service levels, and define its T&Cs without any input from its actual target market?

That there is no value in attempting customer retention?

VA appears to allow 2 carry ons for international long haul business class - I can't find any reference to an exception for USA originating flights so VA would be offering twice the allowance of QF for their business class passengers compared that of QF's business and first passengers.

QF is thus completely out of step with every competitor offering direct business / first flights (VA, UA, AA, DL) between USA and Australia!

Actually I perceive a world where the customer chooses a product based on what that product offers - if that product isn't as much to their liking as someone elses, then they use someone elses

Not every Qantas flight is between USA and Australia - for those routes, f being able to take excessive cabin baggage, then one of the other airlines may be a better choice. If someone still chooses Qantas, then expect to comply with Qantas's rules

I have no desire to fly on an airline where boarding can start 40 minutes before departure and the overhead storage cam often become full and those that may have perfectly reasonable bagggage are forced to check it in

There are few people who are forced to fly Qantas, it is a choice to book flights on it generally
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Last edited by Dave Noble; Dec 8, 2018 at 12:47 am
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Old Dec 8, 2018, 12:51 am
  #93  
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble
Current tickets have been purchased with the rules in place - that the people are flaunting it , does not mean that the rule is not there

The speed limit on a road may be 70mph and people may regularly exceed it - that gives no excuse for the day that a speed camera is installed
People know the speed limit, and it is always applicable. 'Not being caught' is not the same as 'we've never enforced the 7kg, until now'.

Speed cameras have a clear basis in safety (speed limits need to apply in all conditions, not just when the road is dry and the weather is good). Refusing an 8kg bag does not.
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Old Dec 8, 2018, 1:23 am
  #94  
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Originally Posted by LHR/MEL/Europe FF
People know the speed limit, and it is always applicable. 'Not being caught' is not the same as 'we've never enforced the 7kg, until now'.

Speed cameras have a clear basis in safety (speed limits need to apply in all conditions, not just when the road is dry and the weather is good). Refusing an 8kg bag does not.
People agree to terms when making a booking - that the rules may not have been enforced are no different to a road with an unenforced speed limit suddenly being enforced
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Old Dec 8, 2018, 1:35 am
  #95  
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble
People agree to terms when making a booking - that the rules may not have been enforced are no different to a road with an unenforced speed limit suddenly being enforced
They are completely different. The speed limit is always in force. How parties approach a purely contractual issue is up to them.
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Old Dec 8, 2018, 1:59 am
  #96  
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Originally Posted by LHR/MEL/Europe FF
They are completely different. The speed limit is always in force. How parties approach a purely contractual issue is up to them.
The speed limit is rarely enforced - there are some places with speed cameras where it is enforced

otherwise, except on an odd occasion where a mobile speed camera is temporarily placed , there is little enforcement

In many cases a margin over may be allowed without giving a ticket, but there is no requirement to do so

even if you didn't know before, you now know the QF limit - if you choose to ignore it, then if you happen to be on a flight where it is enforced then if over, then c'est la vie
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Old Dec 8, 2018, 2:28 am
  #97  
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble
The speed limit is rarely enforced - there are some places with speed cameras where it is enforced

otherwise, except on an odd occasion where a mobile speed camera is temporarily placed , there is little enforcement

In many cases a margin over may be allowed without giving a ticket, but there is no requirement to do so

even if you didn't know before, you now know the QF limit - if you choose to ignore it, then if you happen to be on a flight where it is enforced then if over, then c'est la vie
The issue of enforcement (prior or otherwise) has no bearing on statute law around speed limits. Cabin bag limits are merely a potential contractual issue. You cannot draw any correlation between the two.
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Old Dec 8, 2018, 4:08 am
  #98  
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Originally Posted by LHR/MEL/Europe FF
The issue of enforcement (prior or otherwise) has no bearing on statute law around speed limits. Cabin bag limits are merely a potential contractual issue. You cannot draw any correlation between the two.
Both are published limits
In either case, if a person exceeds the piublished limits , that they havent been caught before or that the limit hasnt been enforced, is irrelevant
I still haven't seen enough to indicate that Qantas has finally started to enforce it consistently though
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Old Dec 8, 2018, 8:29 pm
  #99  
 
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble
Current tickets have been purchased with the rules in place - that the people are flaunting it , does not mean that the rule is not there

The speed limit on a road may be 70mph and people may regularly exceed it - that gives no excuse for the day that a speed camera is installed




Actually I perceive a world where the customer chooses a product based on what that product offers - if that product isn't as much to their liking as someone elses, then they use someone elses

Not every Qantas flight is between USA and Australia - for those routes, f being able to take excessive cabin baggage, then one of the other airlines may be a better choice. If someone still chooses Qantas, then expect to comply with Qantas's rules

I have no desire to fly on an airline where boarding can start 40 minutes before departure and the overhead storage cam often become full and those that may have perfectly reasonable bagggage are forced to check it in

There are few people who are forced to fly Qantas, it is a choice to book flights on it generally
On the rules;

As has been explained in other posts the between a baggage rule under a contract of sale and a road rule specified by state government legislation (on road operations, etc) are different legal beasts.

To add to the points already made in other posts:
  • QF would need to be careful not to expose itself to unconscionable conduct since it is presenting a "take it or leave it" contract without any opportunity for the customer to negotiate at the time of sale
  • The contract of sale cannot override operant legislation e.g. providing goods / services the the fit for purpose for the price paid, or making false or misleading claims
So QF would be exposed under making "misleading claims" in the instance of trying to police its one bag at 7kg policy (as stated on the contract of sale) for a US originating flight since the allowances defined in its terms of carriage (which link to they web page on carry on baggage which makes no reference to the one bag rule) as available to the consumer before making the purchase.

On Business Perceptions

Sure customers have choice to choose their supplier - that said, IME, it is an integral part of product development and evolution to accommodate some analysis of customer needs and expectations and to engage in a continual process of customer engagement to ensure customer satisfaction.


On USA Flights

QF is a niche airline with a significant reliance on the Australia- USA market for its revenue. For example, surely 50% or greater of its total first class market?!


On Overloaded Cabins

If you have no desire to risk experiencing full overhead bins, lengthy boarding processes, etc., presumably you fly VA and not QF since the risk of such must be lessened by the lower carry on limits on domestic flights?

Surely especially so if you travel business class, since their business cabins aren't always invariably filled up with staff and the overhead lockers jammed up per the QF 737 reality (?).
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Old Dec 8, 2018, 8:35 pm
  #100  
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Originally Posted by LHR/MEL/Europe FF
If the force of the impact on the aircraft is so great that the securely locked bin opens and the contents come flying out, you probably have more to worry about than the weight of individual pieces.

If it's a careless passenger dropping a bag when it's being taken out... why doesn't BA have the same problem? Their insurers would demand lower weights if this was actually an issue.
I've seen bags come out of bins in turbulence. Also it isn't always the case that the bins are securely closed - I've seen bins open on take-off or landing because they weren't shut properly (and this was missed in the cabin crew check).
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Old Dec 8, 2018, 9:16 pm
  #101  
 
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Thing is that what I have seen pop out of lockers are errant bottles of DF or small bags. I have never seen a wheely bag when placed wheels in fall out of a locker. Not saying they don’t, just that if that were to happen I think there would be bigger issues at play. No data just from a physics perspective would think that three wheely bags wheels first in a locker is safer than a hodge podge of smaller bags, coats and loose bottles.
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Old Dec 8, 2018, 9:44 pm
  #102  
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I have been hit on the shoulder by a falling bottle of plonk - this was during an attempt by another pax to stuff their DF booze on top of other stuff in the locker. It hurts! The owner was very apologetic, and no harm done in my case.

I suspect poor loading technique and poor use of space by many travellers results in some similar incidents and near misses.

If seated in an aisle I now consciously crouch away if someone is loading/unloading the locker above me....
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Old Dec 8, 2018, 9:52 pm
  #103  
 
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Originally Posted by Koru Flyer
...safer than a hodge podge of smaller bags, coats and loose bottles.
You forgot to include floor tile samples.
​​​​​​https://www.bangkokpost.com/news/gen...lane-passenger

​​​​​​“When the aircraft landed at the airport, one passenger I believed to be a Chinese tourist ... hurriedly opened the compartment, causing an object (floor-tile samples) weighing about 4kg to fall onto the middle of my head,’’ the singer wrote.

A Thai woman standing nearby quickly admitted the tiles were hers and apologised. The Chinese man who had opened the compartment walked away as if nothing had happened.

Flight attendants brought tissue paper to absorb the blood pouring from his head and put ice on it before sending him to Bangkok Samui Hospital.
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Old Dec 8, 2018, 10:43 pm
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The weighing of cabin baggage may be related to this Cabin Safety Bulletin No.8 (August 2018) where it states:
Ensuring crew members are comprehensively trained in all aspects of carry-on baggage compliance will serve to enhance their knowledge, particularly as it relates to the hazards and risks associated with the increase in carry-on/overweight baggage brought into the passenger cabin. Reinforcing and emphasising the requirement to proactively scrutinise carry-on baggage during passenger boarding should mitigate the risks to effective emergency evacuation.
(My emphasis).
I have always thought it is a safety issue as there must be a limit to what the locking mechanism on the overhead bins can withstand. This is even more important as the overhead bins have grown in size.
As for going over to Virgin, I imagine they are watching QF closely and about to begin their own enforcement policy.
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Old Dec 8, 2018, 10:52 pm
  #105  
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Originally Posted by goback
The weighing of cabin baggage may be related to this Cabin Safety Bulletin No.8 (August 2018) where it states:
(My emphasis).
I have always thought it is a safety issue as there must be a limit to what the locking mechanism on the overhead bins can withstand. This is even more important as the overhead bins have grown in size.
As for going over to Virgin, I imagine they are watching QF closely and about to begin their own enforcement policy.
Any posessions in the overheads will be sought for removal if an evac. A bag at 7 kg or the same bag at 10 kg will he the same level of obstruction if the owner really wants it. And the extra bag that the 7 kg policy now necessitates will double the obstructions in that evac.
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