LTN Phobia

I think it should read "Qantas simply does not reward/look after its frequent flyers very well, unless they are Platinum One, and to a much lesser extent, Platinum, but mainly only so far as they are based in Australia".

Platinum One benefits are pretty good, and they get a lot of benefits that aren't published.

Actually QF doesn't do too badly with acknowledgement on long haul flights, as long as you are Platinum or above. Neither do I particularly find QF to be so rigid. For instance when I arrive on a QF international flight and want to take an earlier domestic flight, booked on the same ticket, they usually offer it to me (often proactively). They often release reward seats for me by talking to revenue management too (the main reason why I keep my Qantas Platinum while being BA GGL/CCR).

I am far from being a QF fan but I do not think that they are entirely under-recognising "real" frequent flyers (i.e. those who do fly on QF flights rather frequently).

But I hate their baggage allowances and high burn ratio. I am too used to getting far more. I also really dislike it that they tend to neglect non-Australia-based members. I am also still holding grudges against them for failing to settle the flight cancellation-related expenses they promised to pay - in writing, of all things!
I also think their exit row policy on international flights for Platinum members suck.

As you can see, I have lots of complaints about Qantas but flexibility and on-board recognitions aren't included in my complaints.

mandolino

Qantas FF scheme is fine by me - I've been Platinum in the past but now am a mere Gold, yet they greet me by name on all International and Domestic flights (not that I care a jot about such fripperies). The lounges in Australia are good by any standard and my upgrades generally come through when I ask for them. Baggage allowances are also fine by me - I don't travel particularly light, but nor do I take golf clubs, surfboards or kitchen sinks.

I just wonder what is the benchmark people are measuring Qantas FF against and finding it lacking?

Globaliser

Earning status is, I think, OK.

But earn and burn rates are horrible.

In addition (to stray into purely personal territory), QFFF points won't get me upgrades on BA flights, which inevitably account for a lot of my flying. And QFFF (and QF in general) makes next to no effort to attract non-Australians with promotions, so there are few special offers targeted at the UK audience.

So for me, QFFF became much less good value when premium economy became an established part of the landscape, which made earning and burning miles through BAEC much better value.

mandolino

I guess Premium Economy made it better for me, as the cost was acceptable to my employer, and then I could upgrade to Business easily with points. I don't really travel far enough with BA to worry about upgrades, although I've been PE to BOM recently.

I agree QF doesn't make much effort with non-Australians, or more correctly, non-Australia residents, however I did get a good mixed class multi-stop itinerary from Qantas Business Essentials (UK-based QF flyers only, if on business) at a good price. However that is undermined by the poor options from Perth which is always the final Australian stop for me. Still, it does suggest someone is making an effort. (or was - who knows if they've survived the cull).

savitar

Here are the issues I have with QFF :

- Twice I have achieved the required status credits but did not have the ~ required as I was living OS. Both times they said, tough - you dont get to keep your status (even though in both cases I was moving back to OZ to continue travelling). Yes yes yes, I get its a requirement that they are entitled to enforce BUT what about saying, sure, I will give you the status you want BUT you have to achieve all ~ and credits in the next year or you lose it.
- The worst customer service I have received on an airline has been on Qantas, with one business class experience being particularly bad
- Unless you are platinum or above there are very limited privileges for lower levels (gold). For example, no priority boarding for gold, no priority check in for gold.
- Qantas does not (officially) recognise OneWorld status members for things like additional baggage (again, for less than Emerald), therefore they are not getting custom from people in other OW member airlines
- The redemption rates are TERRIBLE for getting tickets. I looked at AA Vs Qantas for the same flights (one way from LHR to MEL) and AA was 45,000 points Vs 65,000 points for Qantas but the key was the taxes were more than DOUBLE for Qantas. Looking at a return flight, the cost of 130,000 points plus tax was about 100 pounds less than just getting the tickets directly through a normal purchase. So why bother using points for buying tickets?????
- Lack of upgrades to higher classes. Now this is one where many people disagree that it should happen but there seems to be very limited situations where Qantas upgrades people from lower classes which I disagree with. I certainly agree that you don't NEED to upgrade every seat but if Qantas realised that if they looked after their FF's but the occasional upgrade, they would get far more people choosing Qantas for a chance of a nice surprise....Sure, you can use points but in my experience, its really hard to actually get the upgrade through purchase of points unless you are platinum...

My overwhelming feeling at QFF is that if you are at the highest level, live in Australia and travel in high classes, you are probably happy however for the majority of their FF's (say silver and gold) there is almost no real benefits other than a slight luggage allowance. They just don't make their FF's feel special, don't offer any real redemption that makes you want to use it (other than upgrades, which are impossible to get unless you are platinum)....my view anyway....

Himeno

Can we get rid of Alan Joyce yet?
I hear Tom Horton needs a new job.

im.daniel

You get priority boarding for gold on international flights and priority check in, regardless of class.

I don't think OW has a standardised baggage allowance for members below Emerald.

I've been quite happy with gold on QF for the last few years and think that the benefits are perfectly acceptable. The 75% points bonus is great, and the lounges in Australia and abroad are excellent compared to their counterparts in the US/Canada for example. But I do share the same sentiments that the burn rates are terrible and the taxes are ridiculous.

lokijuh

Agree. I actually have found the gap between Gold and Platinum has narrowed (with the increase of points bonus from 50% to 75%) and the advent of the EK partnership which allows access to EK lounges in MEL & SYD, which whilst not as quite as good as QF F lounges at both ports, are a step up from the QF J lounges. Burn rates are bad, but ameliorated by the status bonus, and bottom out at 0.67c per point - as you can use points in for vouchers (woolies, DJs etc) and use or sell the vouchers, and use the cash to make a commercial booking.

LTN Phobia

This is almost always enforced by OW carriers. BA would be no different. To be honest there are plenty of people who move overseas and meet the sector requirements, or they would change the programme so that they can get one. If you choose not to gain the required number of QF sectors, then how can you blame the airline for not giving you the status?

I must say the worst in-flight crew experience I have ever had was on Qantas also.

You certainly get priority check-in as a Gold. Also, it's only on domestic that only Platinum members get priority boarding, isn't it?

There is no OW baggage benefits for a level under Emerald. Some airlines offer it at their discretion but other than for Emerald, OW extra baggage allowance is not part of the OW arrangement.

However, QF has difficulties granting OW extra baggage allowance for Emerald members when flying QF domestic J, although they are generally persuaded once 'thrown the book'.

Admittedly the redemption rates are not great. However, they do have extra benefits such as Any Seat Award that is not always available with other carriers (e.g. BA does not offer this).

I am not sure why you expected to be upgraded without paying for it? I do not even know any QF Platinum member who would expect a free upgrade. Besides, QF will upgrade when they have to. I do not think 'space available upgrade' system that some US carriers are offering would make much business sense.

Business class check-in, perhaps? Extra points on flights?

I will be honest and blunt. Since it is so easy to attain/retain Silver/Gold, I really do not see how they should expect to be treated to special deals to be honest.

I have made a very large number of redemptions using QF points despite the poor redemption rate, and I particularly think Any Seat Award is a great benefit that is available to everyone.

Like anything else in life where you have a choice, if you are very unhappy with a carrier or its frequent flyer scheme, you need to consider other options and jump ship.

mandolino

Yes, definitely - I am puzzled at people claiming that you don't. Priority boarding for gold in Australian domestic, especially on flights connecting to FIFO runs, would be a farce, as the golds frequently outnumber the other classes.

I must be lucky as I can't recall a bad customer experience with Qantas. The worst was definitely with MAS who left us at Sydney after a long-haul from AMS with no onward arrangements when the Melbourne baggage handlers went on strike. But that was the 1980s.

With modern yield management or whatever it's called, there should be little scope for free upgrades as a smart airline will have sold all its Business and First seats already. .

Globaliser

I had a ~ complaint about QFFF that was slightly different. For very many years, this requirement was not enforced. It can't have been an accident, given how many years it had gone on for. The situation was in effect the same as at AA, which has a four-sector requirement but doesn't enforce it.

QFFF decided to start enforcing this requirement. That, in itself, was perfectly legitimate. But the way it did so was not. It effectively introduced the requirement at an arbitrary date, and without advance warning. I think that we first knew this only when reports started coming in of people who thought they'd requalified being told that they hadn't, and that the four-sector rule was the reason why.

For us, that date fell half-way through my companion's membership year. It meant that QFFF status suddenly became unachievable in that membership year, which was (unusually) one in which we had no QF flying planned. But by then, it was too late to reverse the SC earning we'd already put into QFFF in that year. They were truly wasted SCs. If that earning had all gone into BAEC instead, the equivalent status would have been easily earned there.

This approach was, for me, an illustration of the arrogance and inward-thinking focus that has infected QF generally for too many years. That was a change that wouldn't have affected Australian members hugely, but QF's geographical position meant that it had a dramatic effect on its overseas customers. But culturally, QF just doesn't think like this. In this and so many other ways, the chickens have now come home to roost.

Himeno

Not to mention there are ways to get the 4 ~ without even going to Australia (or in some cases, even stepping on QF metal).
You could travel EDI-LHR-DXB-SIN-NRT using QF codes and get the required 4 ~.

Globaliser

That assumes that there is actually enough demand for all of the first and business class seats on every flight. Often, there isn't. One of the difficulties faced by airlines is that there will be times when it could sell (say) 18 first class seats on a particular flight, but other times when however hard they try, they can't sell more than (say) 4 at some or other first class fare level. But each aircraft has a fixed number of first class seats that can't be changed - eg 14.

One of the sophistications of modern yield management software is for flights in the latter category, it can be set up to pretend that the aircraft only has 4 first class seats, but has (say) 10 more economy class seats than it actually does. Given that times of low premium travel demand often correlate to times of high economy travel demand, this can result in the aircraft being more effectively filled, because the airline has sold 10 more economy class tickets, and has 10 more passengers on board, than it otherwise would. But on the real aircraft, this can only be managed by upgrades, and often these have to be done for free at the last minute.

However, the idea that these should automatically go to higher-tier passengers is commercially dangerous. If a certain category of passenger comes to expect free upgrades to the cabin they want to fly in, they will stop buying tickets in that cabin but instead buy tickets in the next cabin down. And that would be a real cash cost to the company, which will not want to encourage such market behaviour.

LTN Phobia

I must say I entirely agree with that. I think they should have enforced it in the first place or if they suddenly changed the policy, they should make it clear, in fairness to passengers.

QF really treat overseas-based passengers pretty poorly, as I found out to my cost also. One agent even treated my booking with utter contempt and I was shocked as I do not tend to look at things that was but this was totally obvious. Thankfully I have no such experience after I 'moved back' to Australia but the damage is done - I am not fond of QF as a result of various poor ways QF handled things.

I believe the instances of arrogance glimpsed in various parts of the official statement sadly reflects the generally arrogant way the business is run, losing touch with various aspects of reality.

mandolino

That's me, really. I buy PE in the hope of getting an upgrade (but on points, not "free") .
If I don't get it, well then, PE is not so bad. When it comes to upgrades , it's really only the long DXB-SYD/MEL leg I care about anyway.

There are issues surrounding a Europe-Australia connection (and subsequent domestic multi-stop Australia & NZ itinerary) when one is based in a "regional" UK city that I still find Qantas and its partners are best at, albeit imperfectly.