If QF do still want to (as I suspect) one day spin off their FF Program, it's in their interests to have as many members as possible. I didn't read it as a "bugger-off" I read it as the opposite, just badly worded. As we know, QF seem to be very good at badly worded statements...

Another reinforcement of my cynical opinion is that I noticed since becoming non-Australia based, QF have been treating me increasingly with what I could call 'disdain' that I never used to experience when I was based in Australia. I have been feeling rather unwanted as a result. I just get the general feeling that non-Australia-based QFF high tier members are something of a nuisance to QF?

Maybe we are a bit expensive for them, which would be quite understandable if they are having to pay for the lounge use on our frequent visit to BA F lounge, for instance, and maybe they could even be thinking of kicking us out. Similarly to BA not acceptig BAEC members from Australia (and maybe NZ? I'm not sure), and maybe QF will tell us to bugger off to BAEC.

That would be nice. It will save me juggling timings. I'll qualify for BD G by late December so I'll be back to flying mainly BA, and I think I'll have enough SCs for LTG by around Nov 2011, which will still leave me enough time to retain BA Gold if status matched in March 2011 or later, and maintain (if M&M honours BD Gold) or obtain another Star G (thinking of Aegean or ANA) at the same time.

I hope QF does not forget that some of the non-Australia-based members actually fly QF quite a lot though. I have been flying QF on QF-served routes, adding up to more than most Australia-based QF Golds would fly per year. I suspect many non-Australia-based QF WPs are the same.

I completely agree. There was a period where the staff would almost fawn. Those days are completely over though, although I am not 100% sure whether it was connected to me having PG at the time.

You never know. It might happen sooner than we think.

Personally I am looking forward to the day when I can stop crediting to QF. I really don't like how it has become a frequent shopper programme rather than a frequent flyer programme.

I am going to strongly recommend you stick to BD. If they do swap to M&M next year as predicted, you should in theory get *G for a further 2 years, with re-qualification only required in the last of those years. M&M anyhow is very generous for short hops which is generally what I use *A for these days. That said, I do really like NZ long haul.

Next year will be a very interesting year for us BD members, and we will finally need to decide which programme to move to. I suspect our choices will be LH and BA, although I would not be surprised to see AF put it's oar in, especially with all their CityJet services which now make them an increasingly important provider of even domestic services here in the UK.

Yes - I am in the same boat. As you will well know, I am not the biggest fan of BA long haul, especially with the massive catering cuts. QF is therefore pretty much assured of getting my L/H sectors.

BA short haul J is ok (just), but Y is so bad it is actually better to fly on other carriers and pay for F&B.

I'm a PG (last membership year I earned more SCs than required to qualify for PG twice, so not a 'just made it to PG' either) and treated much worse than when I was a 'simple' WP but based in Australia, so I suspect it is due to location. From what I read here, WPs based in Australia seem to be still treated quite well.

I thought I was being taken for granted when I was racking up a silly number of SCs and thought that was the reason for poor treatment, but this year I've toned down a bit (mainly due to flying Star Alliance quite a lot for the first time) although still flying OW more than enough to get PG under the 2,400 rule, and I still seem to be largely ignored by QF.

So, I came to the conclusion that it must be 'outside of Australia' that cause the inferior treatment.

I fully agree. It's rather lamentable. I'll keep using my QF credit card in Australia (mainly because I can't think of anything else to do with them) but I am looking forward to changing my programme once I qualify for LTG.

If I felt that I was getting more recognition for my loyalty, I would have stuck to QF. It's been rather disappointing lately.

Absolutely. I am definitely sticking to BD until the scheme is swallowed into M&M.
I mentioned Aegean or ANA as possibly something to credit to once BD is no more (I think M&M's redemption is not as generous, although I am not sure), but not before it is scrapped.

I came to rather like LH short haul. I like the fact that they give you a sandwich, albeit a small one, even on a short sector in Y. I just do not care for those crackers and chocolate bars that BA gives out in Y, so I am mainly flying BA for longer short haul (you still get a hot breakfast for Band 4 in Y) and short haul J.

As for QF long haul, pity about the A380, as I do not mix well with QF 747 sloped bed. I'm fairly short, which makes you more prone to sliding down, and I travel in a lined skirt which makes me very prone to sliding down. I find trousers uncomfortable (probably just not used to them), so this is leaving me in a bit of a pickle for trips to Australia on OW.

I've never flown NZ long haul but I have been meaning to try it because I keep hearing good reports.

My plan for 2011 is to maintain OWE and Star Gold, and stick to those two. Once I qualify for QF LTG, I'll be with BAEC.

I already credit to M&M those ultra-cheapo flights that do not get anything on BD, so unless I find Aegean and ANA are substantially better, I may well just stick to M&M for Star Alliance.

It's all a bit of an amusing juggling act. I'm thankful that I am not really keen on SkyTeam carriers overall (although AF short haul catering is better than BA's and so are the catering on others), or I'd be juggling three programmes.

To a large extent I agree. As other family members are WPs, I do get the impression that FFs are not treated quite as well as in previous years.

Likewise. When in Oz, I use my QF card, but overall I am not a frequent spender with the QF programme. That said, my BD balance is doing very nicely.

M&M is ok if you are a SEN as companion awards are reduced substantially bring many awards down to the same or below that of BD awards. The big shift however is the lack of cash+miles.

LH is ok, but other LH group carriers are better, namely LX and OS. OS in particular has extremely good catering.

I can deal with the 744 only due to height, but I agree that the 388 product is significantly better. This however is the case in all classes probably with the exception of PE where both are about equal.

I am disappointed to see the new TT services which have been announced as they smack of low cost. Removing J is pretty bad, especially if coming off a long haul flight from Europe and getting stuck with an A320.

NZ long haul though is a class act. Very impressive on most areas. It's not perfect, but I think pretty close to top of the pack of carriers offering a truly world class J product.

You should also look at AA. BA is great if you can get the BA Amex which actually makes their programme very competitive. If not, look at AA as even with the recent BA changes, AA is more competitive if the credit card is not put into the equation.

Also if you qualify on EQP rather than EQM (as I suspect you would), AA will treat you very well. My partner has always qualified on EQP over the last couple of years, and we regularly get invited by the airline to various movies, theatre, dance and other productions. Onboard your unlikely to notice much, but certainly on the ground, AA marketing here in London seem to lavish their top tier elites - even if much of their revenue is generated on partner airlines!! Many friends who only qualify on EQM don't get these "hidden" benefits.

Those EVIPs can also be useful for any TATL travel.

Despite us travelling on many of the same routes in similar fare classes, QF never offers me any of the perks above, despite the odd paid QF F flight.

To a large extent I agree. As other family members are WPs, I do get the impression that FFs are not treated quite as well as in previous years.

Likewise. When in Oz, I use my QF card, but overall I am not a frequent spender with the QF programme. That said, my BD balance is doing very nicely.

M&M is ok if you are a SEN as companion awards are reduced substantially bring many awards down to the same or below that of BD awards. The big shift however is the lack of cash+miles.

LH is ok, but other LH group carriers are better, namely LX and OS. OS in particular has extremely good catering.

I can deal with the 744 only due to height, but I agree that the 388 product is significantly better. This however is the case in all classes probably with the exception of PE where both are about equal.

I am disappointed to see the new TT services which have been announced as they smack of low cost. Removing J is pretty bad, especially if coming off a long haul flight from Europe and getting stuck with an A320.

NZ long haul though is a class act. Very impressive on most areas. It's not perfect, but I think pretty close to top of the pack of carriers offering a truly world class J product.

M&M is definitely the way to go here. BD is really only good for long haul and on particular carriers. Despite the usual BD mob banging on about how good the programme is, it has lots of shortcomings.

This year I would have easily made SEN, yet credit the same flights to BD's DC, and whilst I made the 55K programme, it was definitely not 100K miles.

AF is an interesting carrier. Decent short haul, bad long haul. Will be interesting to see where they go.

So far the only benefit I can see to flying them is that they will allow small dogs in the cabin. Beyond that....

[I should point out that I don't own a pet]

To get to family in France still requires me a CDG connection, and generally the timings are better through BA. No prizes for getting who get's this business. That said, LH is seeing the odd flight here and there.

Now.... I think we have gone truly OT.

I fully agree about OS. I was very impressed with their business class catering the other day. I also like LX short haul, especially in business class.

LH is usually better for ultra-cheap short haul flights though (LX is usually not *that* cheap for economy class, although their business class is good value).


That is very disappointing. I wouldn't like that at all.

I shall definitely have to try it. I have to go to NZ next year for a conference so that will be a good opportunity.

I would if I did 4 sectors on AA a year - but I currently do zero AA, and my transatlantic sectors stand at zero as well! Almost all of my travel is within Europe or to Asia and Australia/NZ, so I would almost never get to fly on AA, making it very difficult for me to achieve status. (That is, assuming AA enforces or plans to enforce the 4 AA sector rule.)

Also I'll almost certainly make BA GGL, because it looks like I'll be doing more Asia Pacific long haul in the future than I have been doing, plus European trips. GGL could be quite attractive for me.

As a solo traveller most of the time, I think it will be difficult for me to utilise the companion awards, although it's good to know, thank you.

LH permits small animals in the cabin too, although I am not sure if it is limited to cats, as I have seen cats in the cabin quite a few times but not dogs.

(I don't own a pet either although I do play with cats and dogs whenever I get an opportunity)

It's been a long time since I did AF long haul, and that's probably for a good reason. However, I would be somewhat curious to try their new premium economy product.

We have indeed!

Back to the topic, I still think it's a 'please bugger off' message. It'll be interesting to see what happens in the next couple of years. I am suspecting that they might "reciprocate" BA and start telling UK (or maybe even Europe-based) members that we'll need to join BAEC.

I could always move my QF address back to Australia if they kick me out of QF scheme for being Europe-based - we still have a house there anyway. But regardless, it makes me feel more unwanted by QF than I have already been feeling.

As you've said, QF seem to be 'downgrading' the treatment of WPs anyway, compared to before, regardless of where they are, although Australia-based ones seem to be still treated much better than those of us in Europe. I'm not impressed (although I have recently been hearing some poor treatment of BA Gold/GGLs by BA too, so maybe it's an industry trend).

I don't believe it is yet enforced.

My partner's boss is a GGL, and I don't get the impression she notices an increase in service levels compared much to a BAEC Gold, although she is far from being an FF geek. Consequently I still see AA as the best of the OW programmes, especially whilst the 100% status bonus exists across most OW carriers (unlike BA where it is only BA, AA, IB & QF).

Mee too. Since the enforcement of the 4-Segment rule I really felt unwanted. Till now I had no problem with the 4 Segments, but it may come. My travel is form Germany to SIN or Australia and then quite a lot of domestic travel in Australia. So I feel like quite a good customer (as far as the amount of money that leaves my credit card account in direction down-under is concerned). Yes, I have some travel with BA and IB and I credit it to QF. LTS and PG will be hit in 2011 with 2 trips to Australia - still a long way to LTG.

And I am loyal to QF - long story: They helped me out during the AN collapse. I had a not so good relationship to BA (due their crappy DBA product) and hat to learn that they are not that bad.

Thanks for the info! In that case I'll definitely look into AA come the time to 'defect' from QF.

Folks, thanks for bringing this to our attention.

Apologies for any confusion here - there was a segmenting glitch and this message was not intended for our tiered Members.

In a nutshell, this is basically it. Probably less relevant for the FT audience, as you are all have high awareness of frequent flyer programs, however many of our customers outside Australia have greater points balance/tier in their home program and this is a message to create awareness around this option.

Naturally, you're still welcome to credit to Qantas Frequent Flyer.

Red Roo, thank you for your clarification.

While you are here, could I make a few points please?

Firstly I would like to ask if there is a policy of not treating overseas-based QFF status members as well as those based in Australia please?

I have been becoming increasingly disillusioned by Qantas lately, and as things currently stand, I feel that there is no incentive to stay with QFF/Qantas once I achieve the LTG, although I had intended to stay with QFF/Qantas. Based on this, I strongly believe that had I receive a better treatment from Qantas, I would have certainly stayed with QFF and continued to choose Qantas as my preferred carrier. I am also concerned about the recent general downgrade of benefits to Platinum members, which reduces the incentive to stay with Qantas even more.

Maybe it is better for Qantas if overseas-based QFF status members went to another OW frequent flyer scheme anyway, whether with LTG or not - many who achieve LTG and go to another carrier are unlikely to be using the LTG status as we would probably achieve OW Emerald with another scheme anyway and would use that status when flying OW, including Qantas.

However, I would like to mention that many overseas-based QFF members, particularly those who were initially based in Australia but moved overseas, would be returning to Australia at some point. Also many of us are doing many trips on Qantas-operated routes every year, often in premium classes, and therefore flying Qantas is one of the options we have and surely we are still somewhat valuable to Qantas?

I do not think I am alone in feeling quite unhappy about some of the recent developments regarding QFF, particularly downgrading of Platinum benefits, as well as the feeling that we (overseas QFF platinum members) are not treated as well as those based in Australia.

For instance, I have never used Anytime Access as I always chose to fly Qantas on Qantas-operated routes, but it is still a downgrade of benefits. Platinum members used to be able to book exit row seats free of charge while no-one else (except CLs) was given access to them in advance. This is no more. Redemptions are made harder by turning the QFF programme into frequent shopper programme, rendering those of us overseas at a disadvantage as we do not shop at Woolworths very often. Also, we (overseas members) often appear to be receiving inferior customer services and attention from Qantas compared to those based in Australia.

Perhaps you would consider reviewing some of the current situations, particularly customer services aspects, as I believe we still bring sufficient business to Qantas. Also, if those of us 'loyal Qantas customers' are treated well, we could be a good advocate of Qantas outside your home-market, where unfortunately many people currently only know Qantas as "the airline that had an A380 engine blow up" right now.

^ Well said. +1.

+2 ^