Behavior of Passengers on 1549
Jan 22, 2009 | 7:30 am
#16
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: somewhere in F, hopefully
Posts: 670
I think that we are making much ado about nothing. What got those pax safely onto their rescue ships was the calm and orderly egress without hysteria, after a controlled landing in the HUDSON river. If upon all violent motion stopping and the overwing doors being opened and the FA announcing that it was time to start deplaning, I really have no issue with someone pulling there bag stored underneath their seat out or even an overhead if it does not incite a riot or hinder deplaning. Now that bag may not make it all the way to rescue, but if having a carry on bag deflect the hysteria that could easily come with shock and being separated from one belongings, then I would say the seconds it would take to reach under your seat and grab your laptop bag is well worth it.
People do strange things when they are in shock. How you treat a person in shock is OFTEN the difference between life and death in traumatic situations. Sorry, but if some obnoxions lady went for the rear door, was stopped by the FA's. redirected up front and she grabbed her bag along the way, that is small potatos. If that is going to calm her down and get her safely off of the aircraft then YOU would be the idiot to try and spout some FAA reg at her and endanger all of the other PAX. Once on the liferaft or whatever, if there is on other room for additional PAX, then you may need to toss a carry on overboard, but until then, big deal. Get on with the business of helping others.
People do strange things when they are in shock. How you treat a person in shock is OFTEN the difference between life and death in traumatic situations. Sorry, but if some obnoxions lady went for the rear door, was stopped by the FA's. redirected up front and she grabbed her bag along the way, that is small potatos. If that is going to calm her down and get her safely off of the aircraft then YOU would be the idiot to try and spout some FAA reg at her and endanger all of the other PAX. Once on the liferaft or whatever, if there is on other room for additional PAX, then you may need to toss a carry on overboard, but until then, big deal. Get on with the business of helping others.
Jan 22, 2009 | 7:52 am
#17
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yes, absolutely!
As a medical professional, I can assure you that someone in a state of physical and/or emotional shock would not be able to get up and retrieve their luggage from the OHB. These kinds of actions can cost precious seconds, and lives, including the offending pax. I wouldn't hesitate to take action.
Jan 22, 2009 | 8:18 am
#18
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As a medical professional, I can assure you that someone in a state of physical and/or emotional shock would not be able to get up and retrieve their luggage from the OHB. These kinds of actions can cost precious seconds, and lives, including the offending pax. I wouldn't hesitate to take action.
3 extra seconds X 150 pax = 7.5 minutes!! I don't want to be on the end of that line in a burning plane.
Jan 22, 2009 | 9:47 am
#19
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As a medical professional, I can assure you that someone in a state of physical and/or emotional shock would not be able to get up and retrieve their luggage from the OHB. These kinds of actions can cost precious seconds, and lives, including the offending pax. I wouldn't hesitate to take action.
For a civilian i would say that surviving an airplane mishap might create a similar state of shock. Just my opinion and not a medical one.
Jan 22, 2009 | 11:45 am
#20
Join Date: Mar 2008
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I am NOT questioning your medical qualifications but I absolutely disagree with this statement. When a person is in shock, they default to all sorts of ingrained training or even habits. I have seen soldiers with severed limbs leave a MEDIVAC area because they realized a piece of their gear was still unaccounted for in a destroyed vehicle. I do not know how to explain that medically other than to say that they were in shock. I AM NOT A DOCTOR, so you may dismiss this as medically impossible.
For a civilian i would say that surviving an airplane mishap might create a similar state of shock. Just my opinion and not a medical one.
For a civilian i would say that surviving an airplane mishap might create a similar state of shock. Just my opinion and not a medical one.
At any rate, as far as the luggage lady, I stand by my statement that I would let her have it.
Jan 22, 2009 | 12:16 pm
#21
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,704
Or maybe I'm 100% wrong here. That happens a lot.
Jan 22, 2009 | 12:29 pm
#22
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I do not want to get in an argument about this with Sunnyjl. I don't know what kind of MD they are or what kind of experience with traumatic injury or traumatic brain injuries they may have. Their statement is just not validated by the injuries I have seen and worked on in a trauma environment. Concussions and shock do very strange things to the human body. I was only trying to say that I would not put it past somebody who was in shock to be overly concerned about their belongings on any other seemingly minutia detail. I know that is a slippery slope because perhaps the passenger in question was just being a PIA. Having dealt with what in my non medical opinion were people experiencing shock, instead of "letting them have it", I'd let them carry their silly bag to the wing and then deal with it once the dust settled. I would not try and get in a rational argument with someone expeiencing any form of shock and I certainly would not try and get physical with somebody experiencing shock. Just not a smart call unless your life is in jeopardy or the lives of somebody else.
Jan 23, 2009 | 9:13 pm
#23
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Medical shock and crisis-reaction "shock" can overlap. I find Paolo01's account of combat injury behavior entirely credible. Trained responses or priorities can be virtually automatic in extreme stress.
Someone carrying an object may be head-injured, responding in crisis mode, OR being a self-important PIA. If they're not impeding the evac, let it go. If they are, redirect them nonconfrontationally. Sparking a brawl in the aisle can kill, too. That's my 2.
Jan 23, 2009 | 10:05 pm
#24
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Lead, follow, or get out of the way.
Jan 24, 2009 | 9:50 am
#25
Join Date: Apr 2003
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I gotta agree a $10k fine is justified for them. Or whatever the federal maximum is in this case. How else are you going to teach pax to actually take emergency instructions seriously, and not be selfish .....es? What if the plane had blown up while Ms. My stuff is so important was obstructing the exit?
Jan 24, 2009 | 2:32 pm
#26
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 684
I gotta agree a $10k fine is justified for them. Or whatever the federal maximum is in this case. How else are you going to teach pax to actually take emergency instructions seriously, and not be selfish .....es? What if the plane had blown up while Ms. My stuff is so important was obstructing the exit?
Jan 24, 2009 | 2:50 pm
#27
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 340
Two instances of aircraft emergency that occurred to me come to mind...............well three actually.
The first was when I was on a USAF MAC flight in a C-130 from Incirlik to Izmir, Turkey. The cabin suffered explosive decompression and the flight crew initiated a screaming dive to 10,000 feet. No oxygen masks hence the over rapid descent. It took two weeks for my sinuses to catch up.
The second was when I was flying a friends Cessna 210 Centurion from Wichita where it had been re-engined to Manassas, VA. At 8,000 feet while descending and ten miles from my destination, the engine seized. I dead sticked it to my destination. Then suffered a case of the uncontrollable shakes for hours afterwards. The owner had a new oil Phillips X/C II oil that was later recalled because it was turning to sludge and locking engines. Phillips paid for a new engine.
The third was while departing McCarren International Airport in Vegas following the SHOT Show, the right engine in my T-310 suffered catastrophic failure at rotation. Turns out the crank, which I had replaced by Continental, was from a bad batch. The metallurgy was goofed up. Continental replaced the engine under warranty. Another bad case of the shakes.
The first was when I was on a USAF MAC flight in a C-130 from Incirlik to Izmir, Turkey. The cabin suffered explosive decompression and the flight crew initiated a screaming dive to 10,000 feet. No oxygen masks hence the over rapid descent. It took two weeks for my sinuses to catch up.
The second was when I was flying a friends Cessna 210 Centurion from Wichita where it had been re-engined to Manassas, VA. At 8,000 feet while descending and ten miles from my destination, the engine seized. I dead sticked it to my destination. Then suffered a case of the uncontrollable shakes for hours afterwards. The owner had a new oil Phillips X/C II oil that was later recalled because it was turning to sludge and locking engines. Phillips paid for a new engine.
The third was while departing McCarren International Airport in Vegas following the SHOT Show, the right engine in my T-310 suffered catastrophic failure at rotation. Turns out the crank, which I had replaced by Continental, was from a bad batch. The metallurgy was goofed up. Continental replaced the engine under warranty. Another bad case of the shakes.
Jan 24, 2009 | 2:55 pm
#28
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 684
Two instances of aircraft emergency that occurred to me come to mind...............well three actually.
The first was when I was on a USAF MAC flight in a C-130 from Incirlik to Izmir, Turkey. The cabin suffered explosive decompression and the flight crew initiated a screaming dive to 10,000 feet. No oxygen masks hence the over rapid descent. It took two weeks for my sinuses to catch up.
The second was when I was flying a friends Cessna 210 Centurion from Wichita where it had been re-engined to Manassas, VA. At 8,000 feet while descending and ten miles from my destination, the engine seized. I dead sticked it to my destination. Then suffered a case of the uncontrollable shakes for hours afterwards. The owner had a new oil Phillips X/C II oil that was later recalled because it was turning to sludge and locking engines. Phillips paid for a new engine.
The third was while departing McCarren International Airport in Vegas following the SHOT Show, the right engine in my T-310 suffered catastrophic failure at rotation. Turns out the crank, which I had replaced by Continental, was from a bad batch. The metallurgy was goofed up. Continental replaced the engine under warranty. Another bad case of the shakes.
The first was when I was on a USAF MAC flight in a C-130 from Incirlik to Izmir, Turkey. The cabin suffered explosive decompression and the flight crew initiated a screaming dive to 10,000 feet. No oxygen masks hence the over rapid descent. It took two weeks for my sinuses to catch up.
The second was when I was flying a friends Cessna 210 Centurion from Wichita where it had been re-engined to Manassas, VA. At 8,000 feet while descending and ten miles from my destination, the engine seized. I dead sticked it to my destination. Then suffered a case of the uncontrollable shakes for hours afterwards. The owner had a new oil Phillips X/C II oil that was later recalled because it was turning to sludge and locking engines. Phillips paid for a new engine.
The third was while departing McCarren International Airport in Vegas following the SHOT Show, the right engine in my T-310 suffered catastrophic failure at rotation. Turns out the crank, which I had replaced by Continental, was from a bad batch. The metallurgy was goofed up. Continental replaced the engine under warranty. Another bad case of the shakes.
Jan 24, 2009 | 3:06 pm
#29
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 340
But I am not a professional pilot. I am licensed as a Commercial Pilot, Instrument, Airplane Multi/Single engine land with King Air 200 and B-25 Type Ratings.
And I agree with the emergency type situations. People will not know how they will react until it happens to them.
Jan 24, 2009 | 4:43 pm
#30
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I think that we are making much ado about nothing. What got those pax safely onto their rescue ships was the calm and orderly egress without hysteria, after a controlled landing in the HUDSON river. If upon all violent motion stopping and the overwing doors being opened and the FA announcing that it was time to start deplaning, I really have no issue with someone pulling there bag stored underneath their seat out or even an overhead if it does not incite a riot or hinder deplaning.
I generally don't like obeying rules and consider myself a virtual cottage industry with regards to breaking every u.s. immigration, customs, and TSA regulation out there, but I hope I would not hold things up while deplaning in an emergency, and if I did, I would expect to be held accountable for endangering someone else's life.