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Originally Posted by ButIsItArt
(Post 9909061)
Understand your frustration, AngryDan, (father is a RET CW4 and LEO) but when you throw out "who here has served"? line, you are just going to get both sides digging in deeper, and you aren't likely to win many new signups either. And really, when getting screened, I care about as much about your combat experience as you do about the Ivy Schools I've attended. Yet both of us care about fulfilling our missions and getting the operation done efficiently and above all, correctly. I think law dawg said it earlier, that respect works both ways, and I really think in this day and age that common courtesy is appallingly rare, and creates a lot of unncessary friction in all our daily lives. In general I agree that a little bit of respect towards TSO's would go a long way towards making things easier for everyone. And what an amazing world it would be if TSO's had an impeccable reputation for courtesy and respectful behavior, and the world's top civilian organizations came to you to learn how to deal an increasibgly diverse and complex public.
I have had only one bad TSA experience, and that was way back in the day when everyone was just trying to figure out what to do, at a short-staffed podunk airport with apparently little accountability. OTOH I have had lots of TSO's send out a good vibe, and I have been keen to respond in kind. In the end, I think TSO's and FF'ers have a lot in common -- we both want safe aviation; we both want to go home at the end of the day instead of having out axxes blown into vapor; we want to be treated respectfully; and we want the TSA/DHS brass to be less brassy and conduct continuous improvement using data from those of us who are right there on the front line. For the record, I have never served. I do agree that the TSA has a lot of work to do. Some TSA employees act with professionalism and treat customers well, but not enough do. I do stand by my belief that accusations of treason and calling the TSA the worst thing ever to happen to the country are likely to marginalize the opponents of TSA. You won't do any good if you convince the American people that you are crazy. Angry Dan |
Originally Posted by AngryDan
(Post 9909439)
By working for the organization
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Originally Posted by dsquared37
(Post 9909932)
Which criminal ring is that again?
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Originally Posted by AngryDan
(Post 9909439)
fBy working for the organization, I have given up the right to speak out against it in my own name.
Angry Dan It is a sad commentary on the perspective of our populace that so many take this point of view. One thing to be considered with this announcement: It's election season people. We've seen this before. Victory through intimidation and fear. The domestic shock and awe if you will. |
Originally Posted by Spiff
(Post 9909960)
Hopefully one that will soon be in prison or better yet, shot, for what it has done to America.
Angry Dan |
Originally Posted by dsquared37
(Post 9910191)
Then you're a scared lackey who is content to let wrong and potentially illegal, certainly unethical, behavior happen out of fear.
It is a sad commentary on the perspective of our populace that so many take this point of view. One thing to be considered with this announcement: It's election season people. We've seen this before. Victory through intimidation and fear. The domestic shock and awe if you will. I said it wasn't my place to use my government job to advance my private political positions. Everyone who has ever worked for anyone else knows that no employee agrees with every stance on every issue taken by their employer. I personally would amend the prohibited items list to allow knives. And I personally welcome a legal challenge through a test case to challenge the TSA's argument about ID. I want to hear what the courts say. I simply don't trust the people on this boards cherry picked interpretation of court decisions. My disagreements with TSA don't rise to the level that would require me to speak out. They are policy disagreements. If I saw something that was illegal, immoral, or wrong I would first use the agency's vehicles but at some point I would speak out. The agency makes millions of small decisions every year, of course I disagree with some of them. Furthermore I don't see how your scenario would play out. I identify myself, and you arrive at my airport. Then we proceed to try to show each other up, possibly leading to a confrontation. A confrontation in which I can use my government job against you. This would not be responsible behavior. Angry Dan |
Originally Posted by AngryDan
(Post 9910360)
Thanks for proving my point.
Angry Dan |
Angry Dan:
One question. How can you work for these people ? |
Originally Posted by AngryDan
(Post 9910392)
And I personally welcome a legal challenge through a test case to challenge the TSA's argument about ID. I want to hear what the courts say. I simply don't trust the people on this boards cherry picked interpretation of court decisions.
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Is TSA federal government employees?:confused:
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Originally Posted by KDHawaii
(Post 9911639)
Is TSA federal government employees?:confused:
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Originally Posted by bocastephen
(Post 9902110)
Can we create a list of airports and concourses where these gate screens are occurring right now?
But they seem really hyped-up in general today. My normal "quick pat down" was a wanding AND pat-down today. When I asked if this was a new procedure, the "officer" got really defensive and replied, "No." When I pointed out that I fly from this checkpoint every week and have never seen this before, he just looked surly and didn't answer. I pondered complaining to the supervisor but just didn't feel up to the fight today. Anyway, since they're not TSA, they tend to make up even more rules than at normal airports, and they have even less accountability than real TSO's. As one FTer's signature line says, "This game just isn't as much fun as it used to be." |
Angry Dan:
My statement was broad and inflammatory, and purposely so. While I - like most on this board - have high respect for the US military and and am thankful to those who serve in it, I agree wholeheartedly with Spiff's point that previous service does not excuse one from later degrading core principles of our nation. I'm not going through airports shouting my views at TSA employees (though I'll certainly tell them if they ask). My post came from frustrated resignation and lack of understanding as to how any American can work for this organization and see himself as a patriot. Not agreeing with some policy decisions is one thing; I've had jobs where I've done things I didn't agree with. But TSA has crossed many of my "red lines" in recent years and I fail to see how any American who values liberty can get up in the morning and serve this Orwellian monstrosity. So I stand by what I said: you work for TSA, you are betraying core values of our highest law, the Constitution. That's treason. |
Originally Posted by KDHawaii
(Post 9911639)
Is TSA federal government employees?:confused:
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Welcome to Nuremberg!!!
:(
Originally Posted by AngryDan
(Post 9909439)
I don't think it would serve the interests of my organization for me to invite you to my airport for a confrontation.
We have a private political disagreement. I think it would be abusing my position to invite you to my airport so that I can use my government office to further my private aims. Furthermore I am anonymous so that it is clear that I don't represent the organization. Here I am a private citizen, and my views are my own. I happen to be a TSA employee, but I don't represent the organization as a spokesman. Also as a supervisory employee, at work I sometimes have to support policies that I privately disagree with. I am not going to undermine that support by making statements against the organization's policies using my real name. By working for the organization, I have given up the right to speak out against it in my own name. Angry Dan |
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