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Old Apr 21, 2008 | 1:10 pm
  #16  
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Originally Posted by drat19
I do. Thus, we respectfully disagree.


Again, not sure of your seriousness or sarcasm re the above points, so I'll address as if serious.

I don't consider "not packing right" or "not paying attention to constantly changing/undocumented rules" to be partially/wholly complicit with the issue/problem of theft from checked baggage. If I choose to pack my baggage however I darned well please, while it may be true that that results in a "harder" search of my bag, it in no way justifies the THEFT of any of the items contained therein.

As to the changing/undocumented rules, well like most here I'm a weekly business traveler and I do try to keep track of the latest nonsense, and if *I* (or any of us here) can't keep track and it results in "harder" bag searches, it still in no way justifies the THEFT of any of the items contained therein (and don't even get me started on how that would impact Ma and Pa Kettle who DON'T keep track, although once again, there is still no justification for THEFT even in those cases).

As to your third point about not reporting baggage violations, I believe I've addressed that in my other post above as to TSA's blanket denials of responsibility.
Actually, I agree with all your points. However, I was only semi-tongue in cheek when I said I don't think TSA denies responsibility. They go further - I think they frequently point out to us specific ways in which we have caused or contributed to problems.

By 'changing/undocumented rules', I meant the discrepancy between what is documented on the website and what takes place at the checkpoints or in the baggage areas, as well as the differences in interpretation from airport to airport and even from screener to screener. I also try to keep up with changes, but I can't keep up with undocumented requirements and the varying ways in which they are interpreted. I get so tired of TSA posts here and on the TSA blog that blame the pax for not "going to the website and reading the rules and following them'. Yeah, right.


And no, none of this EVER justifies harassment of PAX or their belongings in any way. We are in complete agreement on that.
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Old Apr 21, 2008 | 1:49 pm
  #17  
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Originally Posted by chollie
Actually, I agree with all your points. However, I was only semi-tongue in cheek when I said I don't think TSA denies responsibility. They go further - I think they frequently point out to us specific ways in which we have caused or contributed to problems.

By 'changing/undocumented rules', I meant the discrepancy between what is documented on the website and what takes place at the checkpoints or in the baggage areas, as well as the differences in interpretation from airport to airport and even from screener to screener. I also try to keep up with changes, but I can't keep up with undocumented requirements and the varying ways in which they are interpreted. I get so tired of TSA posts here and on the TSA blog that blame the pax for not "going to the website and reading the rules and following them'. Yeah, right.


And no, none of this EVER justifies harassment of PAX or their belongings in any way. We are in complete agreement on that.
I had a feeling we were "all good" in our points of agreement/disagreement; just had a little trouble reading thru the semi-tongues-in-cheek, was all.
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Old Apr 21, 2008 | 4:11 pm
  #18  
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Originally Posted by drat19
As annoying as Christopher Elliott's column can be sometimes, it is nice to see this issue getting some "mainstream" press/exposure
But the issue has been getting mainstream exposure. Even CE points this out in his usual trailing-edge timeframe:
It doesn’t help that hardly a week goes by without another story about alleged TSA pilferage making headlines. Here’s one from a Miami TV station, where 1,500 items have been reported stolen at the airport since 2003. Here’s someone who had his engagement ring filched by screeners in Los Angeles. Here’s another one involving a 12-year-old’s heartbreaking loss of $265 in birthday money.
Other half-baked assertions sputtered by the witless Mr. E:

Although the TSA has taken steps to discourage these government workers from helping themselves to our personal effects — including background checks on new hires, video cameras in screening areas and rules forbidding backpacks or lunchboxes at checkpoints [...]
Let's address each of the TSA's "steps" to discourage screener thievery:

1) Background checks. We already have enough reports, documented in this forum with news links, that criminal history checks were not conducted consistently (across stations) or in a timely manner in the early-going of this agency.
Furthermore: Are all c/p TSOs and baggage screeners continuously rescreened throughout their employment with the TSA? If there's a standard for initial hiring, then the standard should remain in effect throughout one's career with the TSA. I'm not saying that a DUI subsequent to hiring should necessarily result in termination, but that objective stressors in one's life can lead to criminal temptation. And certainly, burglary and theft are relevant flags.
2) Video surveillance. Are the cameras on and rolling everyday, and that tapes functioning properly? Who ensures this? And who reviews the tapes? How long after the footage is captured? Are all tapes reviewed?

3) Forbidding backpacks and lunchboxes at checkpoints. What about at CPX stations, Mr. Elliott, most of which are located far from pax sight (and even supervisory oversight)?

If 200 screeners have actually been dismissed for theft, how many counts of stealing are left unaccounted for? If more than one, either airline baggage handlers are to blame or more TSA personnel have yet to be caught.
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Old Apr 21, 2008 | 4:30 pm
  #19  
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Originally Posted by chollie
"If your bag was searched because it alarmed the CTX, the TSA should have a record of exactly which screener conducted the search, if you keep the airline bag tag with the barcode on it.

At the very least, that person probably will be questioned, and if a pattern of complaints emerges, they may well be reprimanded or fired over it."
Interesting tidbit. Thanks for brining it to our attention.

Once again, it's probably not TSA's fault, it's most likely the fault of the pax or the baggage handlers.
Absent of evidence this really isn't a credible claim. The finger-pointing has got to stop with the agency responsible for the policy on unlocked luggage.

Speaking of this treacherous policy, check out the sidebar of Elliott's column -- same link the OP provided, about half way down the page or search for this heading: Discuss: Has the TSA stolen from you? Here's the penultimate paragraph:

TSA-approved locks are useless, so don’t even bother

Anyone can access your luggage after you’ve checked it. Anyone. Don’t believe me? Here’s how to break into a bag without the benefit of a TSA master key. Besides, the TSA likes to confiscate the locks after they’re done rummaging through your belongings, according to readers like Paula Craig. “Sometimes, I get the Dear Paula, we have been through your luggage letter — and sometimes not,” she says. “It’s maddening.”

Last edited by essxjay; Apr 21, 2008 at 4:35 pm
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Old Apr 21, 2008 | 4:36 pm
  #20  
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Originally Posted by essxjay

If 200 screeners have actually been dismissed for theft, how many counts of stealing are left unaccounted for?
I didn't follow the link, so I guess you got that figure from it... How many TSA employees are there? Is 200/(the total number) a big/small number compared to other jobs in similar position of power (like Customs agents)?
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Old Apr 21, 2008 | 6:02 pm
  #21  
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Some interesting responses on there. I particularly like the flag waver who is OUTRAGED.......... not that people are being ripped off but that someone might suggest that the TSA could be responsible.....
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Old Apr 21, 2008 | 7:50 pm
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Originally Posted by drat19

My checked baggage has been cherry-picked. TSA, you're a bunch of thieving thieves. Clearly others agree.


Hmmmm...no argument here.
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Old Apr 21, 2008 | 9:10 pm
  #23  
 
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Has anyone tried the recommended tactic for opening locked luggage? Is it really that easy and does it really re-zip/lock that easily?

Pretty scary in "security" terms, but may be handy in another context.
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Old Apr 21, 2008 | 11:28 pm
  #24  
 
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I sent an email to Mr. Elliott

from: Christopher Elliott <[email protected]>
[email protected],

date: Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 4:30 PM
subject: Re: Theft by TSA - I'm a TSO at SEA.
mailed-bygmail.com

hide details 4:30 PM (5 hours ago) Reply


Ms. @@@@@, thank you for taking the time to write. You make a very
valid point. I appreciate it.

Chris


--
Christopher Elliott
Blogger/syndicated columnist/TV host



[email protected],

date: Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 12:49 PM
subject: Theft by TSA - I'm a TSO at SEA.
mailed-bygmail.com

hide details 12:49 PM (9 hours ago) Reply


Mr Elliott,

I am a TSO at Seattle Tacoma International Airport. Do you know how many people leave behind items in the bins as they hurry through security? How many of these people that are missing things that they put in bins call the airport lost and found? We turn in rings, glasses, laptops, umbrella's, camcorders, jackets, medication, wallets, keys, cell phones, purses and whole carry on bags. How about a study on airport lost and found? How many items that are never claimed there being blamed on a TSO when you go through security? We even had a gentlemen walk away without his shoes, he came back for them 15 minuets later after his feet became cold. Do you know that it's not necessary to remove rings and glasses but people do it. When I see men place their wallets in bins I tell them to remove all metal from them and put them back in their pockets. If they have a money clip attached to the wallet I tell them to remove the cash before sending it through. People pull money clips out of their pockets that are full of cash thinking nothing of tossing it in the bin. When I see people doing things that put them at risk of losing their items from theft I educate them. Theft also comes in the form of their fellow flying public. It's so easy for the person in front of you or behind you if you are delayed to snag something from your bin. We even tracked down one passenger who took his laptop and the person's behind him. My favorite is after a passenger has finished packing up their items then blames us for their missing purse, glasses, wallet, boarding pass, cell phone, ipod....you get the idea here. First they start off by yelling that we stold the item. Never does anyone think that they already put it in their bag on their shoulder in their pocket, on top of their head or never took it out of their pocket to begin with. After listening to someone yelling at you, accusing you of stealing their purse it's hard to not make a mean comment as you point out that it's resting on their shoulder. Most people are so embarrassed by their behavior that they leave as quickly as possible never apologizing for the false accusation. When a passenger can't find an item after he's packed back up we can run the items back through the x-ray and find them in the jacket or bags. Folks are in such a hurry that they don't remember placing them in the bag before putting them in the x-ray or forgot they already put them away. If you want to know how to get through security fast, easy and safe the best person to ask is a TSO because we've seen and heard it all.

TSO/SEA
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Old Apr 22, 2008 | 5:05 am
  #25  
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Originally Posted by Richelieu
I didn't follow the link, so I guess you got that figure from it... How many TSA employees are there? Is 200/(the total number) a big/small number compared to other jobs in similar position of power (like Customs agents)?
By the TSA's own admission, there have been about double this number who have been caught stealing from luggage. I don't have the time to look it up, but this figure was released by an official Spokeshole during a particularly eggregious theft arrest last summer. The number he quoted was in the high 300's -- 10 months ago.
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Old Apr 22, 2008 | 5:05 am
  #26  
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Originally Posted by SMF TSO
I don't have anything to hide, I have cause to search and I'd rather not be accused of theft.
Too late and too bad. Thanks to your thieving thief co-workers, I will always suspect you of being a thief.
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Old Apr 22, 2008 | 10:02 am
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Clearly the TSA person who wrote the above letter to Elliott brings up some good points. I do not doubt that there are people who leave behind many things at checkpoints and automatically assume that someone stole them. But what irritates me about this particular letter writer is that they won't even acknowledge the possibility that there they have fellow employees stealing stuff. It gives them all a black eye, and hence the accusations of theft. Out of all of the cases where a PAX claims something was stolen at a security checkpoint, I'd grant that probably at least 25% of them are cases where the PAX is being an idiot and simply forgets something, another 25% are probably cases where other PAX are stealing. To me, that leaves another 50% where we're dealing with sticky-fingered TSA employees.
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Old Apr 22, 2008 | 1:20 pm
  #28  
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Originally Posted by SMF TSO
And I really, really wish the passenger was required to be notified of the search and allowed to be present during the search. They're there when we do bag checks upstairs, why not downstairs? I don't have anything to hide, I have cause to search and I'd rather not be accused of theft.
Yeah. I've been searched in China. Not only do you have to be present, you open the bag and show them whatever it is that's confusing the x-ray guys. They never handled anything other than the objects in question.
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Old Apr 23, 2008 | 12:55 am
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Medic1
Clearly the TSA person who wrote the above letter to Elliott brings up some good points. I do not doubt that there are people who leave behind many things at checkpoints and automatically assume that someone stole them.
Sometimes people forget and sometimes it's other passengers. But TSA procedures make both options more likely.

When you're juggling BP/ID, retrieving your shoes, Kip Zip, laptop, coat, carry-on bag, keys/coins/wallet/watch, and trying to put it all back together, while being yelled at to move along, it's easy to forget something or for someone to (accidentally/purposefully) take your stuff.

Last time through LAX the screener grabbed my handbag, with a digital camera, Palm computer, mobile phone and jewelry in it (as well as, you know, a wallet and credit cards) as it came out of the x-ray and said "need to send this through again." At least, I think that's what he said because he was walking away with it at the time. I had to keep an eye on him and collect my other stuff at the same time.

When you're getting a secondary and your bins are at the far end of the rollers, it's easy for someone to grab things. Another time through LAX (boy, I hate that airport!) Mr Radioman and I both got secondaries; when I finished first I picked up his wallet, watch and keys from the bin. No one questioned me or even noticed.

Here in Aus for domestic flights, I take the laptop out. No stupid sock hop, no stupid liquids baggies, my coat can stay on. On the other side, I pick up laptop, bag and purse, put the first in the second, and I'm off. Seems to be as successful as TSA's policies in preventing an attack....
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Old Apr 23, 2008 | 7:29 pm
  #30  
 
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Originally Posted by drat19
Too late and too bad. Thanks to your thieving thief co-workers, I will always suspect you of being a thief.
Sure, just like all Catholic priests and Boy Scout leaders should be suspected of being pedophiles.
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