Welcome!

Just in case you're wondering, the entire internet is rife with TSA complaints.

Do a search for "TSA abuse" and you'll see that it's not just this place that is fed up with the TSA, but many many Americans and non-Americans are fed up with the TSA.

Here are some links I found within 5 seconds of searching:

http://www.tripso.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2748

http://www.dba-oracle.com/travel_tsa_reform.htm

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul220.html

http://www.aclu.org/privacy/gen/15777res20041221.html

So you see, it's clearly not just people here who are recognizing the abuse of the TSA, but the entire world as well.

Welcome to reality 101.

I was YG 81, so I did my time in Weegotcha 10 years after you were there. Went back again for my MIOAC in 86. I was originally a 36A CI/HUMINT officer which was later redesignated to 35E among other letters, suffixes and qualifiers.

One of my bosses I respect a lot was a Mohawk pilot in Vietnam. He used to joke that there was no such thing as a survivability rate among Mohawks, it's just a matter of pure dumb luck.

You know, you're pretty convincing sometimes.

Then I think back to history.

People didn't speak up when the Germans rounded up the Jews, gave them special tags to wear. Just a minor inconvenience, a tag is, really, right?

Then the Germans rounded up the Jews and sent them to special labor camps (or so the population thought). Hey, this was during a time of war (WWII), so surely it can't be too bad, right? The US also rounded up Japanese Americans and sent them to concentration camps as well, so surely it can't be wrong, can it?

Little bits "hey it's a little inconvenience, it's no big deal" over time adds up to a whole lot of inconvenience, by which time it's too late to recognize that it's a big deal.

When good men do nothing, evil prevails.

You're one of those people who either work for the TSA, or don't care enough about fair treatment of innocent travelers, and now are a TSA shill, fighting against the majority of people who see that the TSA is abusive and lacks accountability.

Hey, it's just a minor inconvenience, so we should just shut up right?

While you directed your comments to someone else, I don't advocate shutting up about it. In fact, I advocate the opposite. But do more than just b.tch and whine on FlyerTalk. And that's the huge difference, my friend. Passengers DO have the right to do something about it, but many of them DON'T. Look at some of the comments made in here by the frequent whiners, and all of them believe it is a waste of time to submit a complaint either directly to the TSA checkpoint supervisor or to submit a letter/email to the FSD or airline station manager. Very few, if any, even bother to consider the notion of writing their Congresscritter.

No such options existed for the Jews in Nazi Germany or, for all intents and purposes, for those Germans who disagreed with the Nazis.

What I find stupid about the comparisons with Rosa Parks or the Jews in Germany is that passengers today DO have an option. THEY didn't. But not once have I advocated "shut up and do as you're told." I know you didn't accuse me of this, but I want to make this distinction so you understand why I think the Rosa Parks comparison is so inappropriate.

I agree with you: when good men do nothing, evil prevails. I don't think what happens at TSA checkpoints is evil, but I do agree that there's plenty of room for improvement, and that no one deserves to be verbally abused.

Bart, thanks for your reply.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I know that writing complaints to the TSA has resulted in absolutely nothing. Sometimes we get a form letter replay, other times nothing.

My family and friends have had bad experiences, resulting in the loss of vaulables from their luggage, having to toss medication in the trash, being subject to "do you want to fly today" type comments. I have helped them write letters and complaints to the TSA, and I can tell you not one has resulted in any type of meaningful result.

The TSA is truly not accountable, that's why there are many here trying to make fellow Americans aware as well as sending the complaints to the big black hole we call the the TSA complaint department.

I also don't find the Rosa Parks comparison invalid. Rosa Parks could have chosen not to ride the bus in the first place (as in fact many did after the event). It was just a bus ride, right? Just like the "do you want to fly today" comment, it's "do you want to ride the bus today?" attitude that exists when TSA abuses occur.

Now you're comparing security screening to the Holocaust?
Seriously?

Are you really that dense to see the comparison of your "hey it's a minor inconvenience" to the analogies of what happened during the Holocaust, when it was a lot of "hey it's a minor inconvenience" over and over again which led to the tragedy? It's about the attitude that led to the Holocaust, not a comparison of security screening to the Holocaust. You can't even comprehend this???

Seriously?

What I do see is you minimalizing Rosa Parks and the deaths of Millions of Jews during WWII to justify your hatred for TSA

BZZZZZZZZZ

Sorry, try again.

I highly admire Rosa Parks and highly sympathetic to the tragedy of the Jews.

Unfortunately, your attitude of "hey it's a minor inconvenience" is what could well lead to a repeat of the Holocaust in the future, as government continues to refuse to be accountable to its citizens.

And for the record, I don't hate the TSA. I hate stories of abuse of the TSA, and the non-accountability of the TSA.

Nice try putting words in my mouth. Sorry you're dead wrong.

No putting words in your mouth, it is the comparison you made.
Maybe you should proof read?

I'm sorry, but I feel I must ignore you for the time being because of your trivialization of Rosa Parks and the deaths of millions of Jews (and more) during the Holocaust of WWII.

It is sad that people would not only try to make such a comparison to make a point, but actually believe there is any common thread between them.

I actually find that offensive

Just one final thought on this issue:

Standing up for passenger rights is never wrong. Standing up for one's rights and asking for professional treatment will never lead to a security lapse or a terrorist attack.

However, not standing up for one's rights or asking to be treated professionally can lead to disastrous consequences, such as bullying, theft of one's property, loss of essential items like medication, being falsely detained and worse.

I fail to understand those shills who claim, in spite of overwhelming and complete evidence all over the net and the media, that the TSA doesn't abuse and if a traveler "shuts up and puts up with the minor inconvenience" that there's no big deal.

Unfortunately it IS a big deal, and will continue to be a big deal, until TSA policies are changed to ensure consistency, professional and courteous treatment, accountability, and removal of bad apples when eregious passenger treatment occur.

Heck - add to the list the revolutionary crowd at Disney
http://disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1632416
It looks like the Kettles are starting to see the light.

CLAP CLAP CLAP

Wow you refuse to acknowledge or pretend to understand the comparison of attitudes, instead pretending to be offended by a false interpretation of my debate.

So you are unable to debate logically and now have to ignore me?

Just like in the "TSA coffee" thread where you were proven incorrect over and over again, and yet you persisted in sidestepping the real issues, you're doing this as well here. Thanks for playing though.

Well done. Readers can truly see who is the offensive one here. Good job. ^

Just one final thought on this issue:

Standing up for passenger rights is never wrong. Standing up for one's rights and asking for professional treatment will never lead to a security lapse or a terrorist attack.

However, not standing up for one's rights or asking to be treated professionally can lead to disastrous consequences, such as bullying, theft of one's property, loss of essential items like medication, being falsely detained and worse.

I fail to understand those shills who claim, in spite of overwhelming and complete evidence all over the net and the media, that the TSA doesn't abuse and if a traveler "shuts up and puts up with the minor inconvenience" that there's no big deal.

Unfortunately it IS a big deal, and will continue to be a big deal, until TSA policies are changed to ensure consistency, professional and courteous treatment, accountability, and removal of bad apples when eregious passenger treatment occur.

Wow, say it ISN'T SO!! Even mom and pop going to Disney are fed up.

So it's NOT just us in this forum that are fed up with this TSA BS.

Shocking.

Thanks for the link. Very interesting.

As you well know, there is a right way to complain and a wrong way. Compliments can be generic ("everyone is so friendly" "there's a nice positive atmosphere" etc.) but complaints need to be specific. "Everyone is so rude" doesn't cut it. However, "TSO Smith threatened to have me removed from my flight. He refused to allow me to explain my concerns. He refused to notify the supervisor after I requested one." These are the proverbial nails in the coffin. But you have to be willing to swing the hammer. From time to time, I get to read some of the negative comment cards. Unfortunately, some of them have generic statements or fail to specify any details. It makes it very difficult to follow up. Others are obviously written while angry, and it's difficult to determine how much of it was actually rude behavior by the TSO as opposed to a chip the passenger may have already had on his or her shoulder. This is basic stuff, and I know you know this already. However, some folks do sabotage themselves with emotionally-laden complaints or with general comments that don't specify anything.

As for the "do you want to fly today" comments. Ask for a supervisor, and ask the supervisor to defend that comment. If the supervisor is dumb enough to try to defend it, then ask for that supervisor's name, the TSO's name (all that's required is the name and number that appears on the name plate), and then submit your complaint through the airline station manager (you should be able to obtain the email address/mail address from the airline representative at the departure gate).

Threatening passengers in this manner is a direct violation of TSA policy. You don't have to tolerate it.

The only thing a TSA supervisor can do is deny you access into the sterile area. But that supervisor needs to be able to support that decision with solid facts (e.g. possessing a knife but not wanting to surrender it, failing to resolve an ETD alarm, etc.). Otherwise, if there is a violation of law (e.g. possessing a firearm at the checkpoint), then it's a LEO issue. Whenever a TSA supervisor denies access into the sterile area for matters such as inability to resolve an ETD alarm, the first person that needs to be notified is the airline GSC.

I'm not defending TSA with the comment I'm about to make, but I think I do have an explanation for why some supervisors were ineffective. When NCS Pearson hired the first generation of supervisors, it did a sloppy job. It was a first-come-first-hired basis. The standard was, essentially, if you didn't have anything in your background that disqualified you, then you were hired as a supervisor INSTEAD of hiring only those with the strongest qualifications. I think FSDs have slowly weeded out these supervisors, but I can't speak for all airports. What I can tell you is that at my airport, only one supervisor has been promoted to screening manager who was originally hired by NCS Pearson as a TSA supervisor. Everyone else who was promoted to screening manager were screeners who worked their way up the ladder either starting off as basic screeners or as lead screeners. This tells me that our FSD was not impressed with what he was given as his initial crop of supervisors. As for the rest of that initial generation, many of them have subsequently resigned, some have been terminated, and others are slowly realizing that they will never advance. I'm not speaking on behalf of my FSD. I'm just reading between the lines. I'm no dummy. I can read patterns and trends with the best of them. While I know I can't apply this model across the board, I think it's safe to assume that other FSDs may have applied it at some airports. If this assumption is valid, then there should be less and less supervisors who are unresponsive to customer complaints today than there were five years ago.

Again, you don't have to tolerate rude behavior.