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Originally Posted by DEVIS
(Post 8289949)
Now now... not everyone at TSA and DHS is a bonehead, or even thinks like one. I am sure there are plenty of smart cookies working there, regardless of how they feel about the work they do. A paycheck is a paycheck, and if you happen to earn it working in the cubicles of Uncle Sam's Shack o'Conformity, so be it.
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Originally Posted by DEVIS
(Post 8290115)
It's ok, because you'll go to heaven where all is good...
They will find the streets are guarded By United States Marines." ... until the TSA takes over that too. I am right that Heaven is part of the US, aren't I ? |
Originally Posted by exerda
(Post 8281871)
Likewise, unless the feds somehow demand a "Universal Secure ID Card" for all citizens, there's no way any amount of training is going to make it so the screeners can verify the legitimacy of an ID. There has to be some way to mechanically scan the ID and have it validate against a central DB, and I'm not even going to start on the privacy and technical concerns entailed therein.
http://www.peterson.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123064311 8/13/2007 - PETERSON AFB -- For those entering Peterson, a simple flash of the ID card won't be enough. DEFENSE ID, a new security device to help secure the installation, is being put into use here, base officials announced in early August. The advanced identification card verification system will be used at all Peterson and Cheyenne Mountain gates. The system uses a handheld computer to check ID cards, making sure they are valid, authentic, and the person is not wanted. --- The system is already in use at other military installations worldwide. Its implementation here will help better secure the base, according to Master Sgt. Isaac Lopez, operations support for the 21st Security Forces Squadron. The system resembles a heavy-duty PDA with a bar code and magnetic stripe reader. Guards and security forces will use the device to scan the identification cards currently used by military members and government employees. Information is checked through more than 100 databases of individuals who are wanted for criminal offenses or are barred from military installations. It takes about one to three seconds to check the ID, Sergeant Lopez said. "We have a base barment list, a wanted list, (be on the lookout) list, missing (identification) card list; there is a huge amount info on people who shouldn't come on base," Sergeant Lopez said. "So if someone has a bad (identification) card, currently the only way we can verify it is to check against a paper copy or manually input the (identification) into a computer. This scanner will check all the databases in three to five seconds." Databases include the FBI and Office of Special Investigations most wanted lists, and others. Each night the scanner will be updated with current lists. More than 70 local, state and national sources are checked. A desktop station at the visitors center will check contractor and other visitor identifications for wants and warrants. http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/...re/0291642.htm The information that is scanned from an identity card is compared to over 100+ databases of individuals who are wanted for criminal offenses or are barred from military installations. The system works with military IDs, US and Canadian Drivers Licenses and other government ID cards and therefore requires no need to issue or create special badges -- a major cost savings to the government. DEFENSE ID® is credited in helping security personnel identify and prevent nearly 25,000 unauthorized individuals from gaining entry onto military and federal installations in the last two years. ============Now, imagine this system (or a similar one) being deployed at the airports. Of course, that would be pure speculation as the person doing our periodic security briefing didn't really answer the questions posed about doing just that..... |
Originally Posted by Wally Bird
(Post 8289770)
Saving "face". Somebody at DHS decided, in the immediate post-9/11 meltdown, that ID was security. Since the DHS/TSA has never done a volte-face on anything of substance, they will never admit this was a bonehead move; assuming they even recognize that fact, which I seriously doubt.
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Are they going to be harassing me about carryon size too?
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Originally Posted by xyzzy
(Post 8289593)
No -- it's revenue protection for the airlines. Remember the day of the newspaper ads that read, "EWR-SFO July 4th, 9:00 AM male" ?? I do.
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Originally Posted by clarence5ybr
(Post 8299504)
There's nothing to stop that now, provided you have Acrobat or Photoshop. If I buy a ticket in my name, and for whatever reason, I want you to travel on it, all I do is save a copy of the real OLCI BPs, spend a few minutes on the computer creating a new version that changes the name from "clarence5ybr" to "xyzzy". I give you copies of both versions. You use the "xyzzy" BP and your own ID to get through security, then use the "clarence5ybr" BPs to board the flights. Since you never have to show ID past security, this will work fine.
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Originally Posted by exerda
(Post 8301052)
Shhhh--we don't want the airlines to hear and go back to the days of checking ID at the gate. :eek:
If the airlines hadn't figured out how easy this was already, surely the guy who got arrested for having the online NW BP generator opened their eyes. His site was big news about a year ago, and neither NW nor any of the other airlines have gone back to checking ID at the gate. |
Originally Posted by xyzzy
(Post 8288398)
How many of the ID checkers actually utter more than a grunt (if that) before handing the ID/boarding pass back? That's right, just about zero. Since you admit that this check has nothing to do with security why are we doing it? :confused:
The obvious answer, then, is to get better people to do it. |
Originally Posted by law dawg
(Post 8310553)
So this would be a failure of implementation and not of principle.
The obvious answer, then, is to get better people to do it. About the only time this makes sense is for international flights to ensure you have a passport. |
Originally Posted by law dawg
(Post 8310553)
So this would be a failure of implementation and not of principle.
The obvious answer, then, is to get better people to do it. |
Originally Posted by law dawg
(Post 8310553)
So this would be a failure of implementation and not of principle.
The obvious answer, then, is to get better people to do it. |
A friend/co-worker has a stack of scuba certification cards with his picture on each, and they look like the goodie bag for a secret agent as how he looks in each picture is very different from every other.--it's quite amusing to see.
Steve |
Originally Posted by Superguy
(Post 8310595)
Why? It's still a waste of time. Terrorists don't have an ID saying terrorist on them and they can even use valid ID's. And of course, if you're willing to deal with the haraSSSSment, you don't even need an ID.
About the only time this makes sense is for international flights to ensure you have a passport. |
Originally Posted by exerda
(Post 8313838)
As xyzzy pointed out above, the problem is with the principle... it may be compounded by a poor implementation, but as I laid out way upthread, no amount of training or "good people" will ever turn IDs into security.
This is much like traffic stops, which are often done with the intent of looking for something else. The stop (for a legitimate purpose) results in discovery of something greater. |
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