I had an oddly not-too-unpleasant experience departing a CO flight over the Labor Day weekend. The screening area was very quiet with few people around. The guy suggested that I remove my shoes, and I told them that I didn't want doing that. I did not set off the metal detectory. He of course called for "male assist" and when the the other guy came over he asked what the matter was -- "shoes" was the answer. The guy doing the screening asked me why I didn't want to take my shoes off, and I just said that I didn't feel comfortable doing it. So all he did was swab my shoes -- I didn't have to take them off. I still got the full treatment otherwise, but at least I kept my shoes on.

The screenes were even more or less polite about the whole thing.

Another good answer is: "If you folks vacuumed periodically, I'd consider it."

Every airport has different rules!!!!!!!!!!!

Some want to see BP at security - others don't give a hoot!
At some airports I have never had to take off shoes and sometimes the same belt will/will not set of the alarm. It is and has always been a crap shoot!

i know i'm in the minority thinking this, but small differences such as that don't seem to amount to much. a lot of confusion seems to stem from people not being informed of what's going on. "i fly X amount of times a year" doesn't mean that a person is any more informed about any of it. it just means that you've successfully plopped down the behind into the well used seat and jetted said behind across the sky. (there are exceptions to the rule, as some people are more observant)

it's relatively apparent the layout of each of the checkpoints. how the airport, airlines & TSA decide to do it is up to them. if anyone has ever spent some time asking the airline personnel or TSA about their checkpoint, i've found that most are more than willing to explain it. the melodrama about checking of the boarding passes gets old after the person in front of you for the Nth time goes off into some tirade. complain if it makes you feel better, then move on! keep the people-conveyor moving.

message is a general statement, sorry...i had to vent a bit.

that being said, it's not too much to ask to be informed of what's going on. i've lost count of how many of those flying early mornings for business who just "gave up" on trying and brusquely tries to push his way through and then gets stopped so that someone can check his boarding pass. communication is the responsibility of the airline/TSA employee, but it takes two to tango...

Huh? People who travel frequently are the most informed. They are the ones that see the huge inconsistencies in security screening from one airport to another.

What do you mean? Ask whom? If a flier knows what the TSA screening SOP is supposed to be with regard to shoes, etc., why would he/she need to ask what's going on?

You go into two different paths in this paragraph. First, observations gathered during flying experiences don't count, but there are more observant people. ??????

Yes, there are varying degrees of FFers knowledge of what the SOP may or may not be. The majority of TSA front-liners are good people, but there are enough bad eggs out there to cast doubt on what the SOP might be, or its arbitrary application. Said majority provide proof as to what SOP should be. Common sense dictates how much the BS detector will go off.


What do you talk about to a TSAer about their checkpoint? Do they give you a tour of the area....let you run the x-ray machine....let you kick the WTMD or stick the HHMD down your pants for fun?

Y'know, I have trouble picking out just one or two out of the masses of the TSA and airport personnel who trip all over themselves to go into detail on security procedures.

Let's get real -- if I started asking questions about the procedure I will either A) get lied to, or B) get "extra attention."


You must have the most horrible luck. I couldn't imagine that every time you go through a CP, the person in front of you complains about the BP issue.

Some of us put the BP in the bag that's already in the x-ray machine. It's the TSA's inconsistent procedures that contribute to the back-up that horribly inconveniences you.

Tell you what, go to ONT and see the twin 32" TV that blare out instructions on how to put everything through the X-ray machine, only to be told by the person at the WTMD to have the BP with you through the WTMD.


Yes, but when two different airports have two different sets of procedures, is that the fault of the passenger?

huge inconsistencies that i've seen pretty much revolve around shoes on/off and ticket checking. there are many FT'ers who didn't know that the "airline selects" or that the person checking ID's works for the airlines. or that the airlines control a good portion of the line, but not the "checkpoint" itself. a lot of people that i see when i go through ask the same question: "why does that guy get to go and i have to be stopped". with the quoted premise above they should already know. many do not.

from the comments in TS&S many still don't get the somewhat obtuse statement that is consistant at most airports regarding shoes (since you're using that one as an example). some airports will say "all shoes off" (against the rules), others will say "we 'suggest' you take the shoes off". like Bart(?) and another screener said, you don't have to outside, but if you don't there's a good chance you'll be set aside for more checking.

or at least that was similar to how it was explained to me...

at least the old ways... anyone have the "pleasure" of experiencing the new policy?

sidenote: the comment was about checking boarding passes. for those who get disoriented easily, and don't want to keep the boarding pass with thiem (i would..), ask if they need the ticket out. same with shoes, ask if they want the shoes off.

least stress, although everyone is free to choose their own path of least or most resistance. ^

it's presumed that there are more observant people out of any given group of flyers. doesn't necssarily mean that they're all FF'ers.

true that.

for those that can't handle the multiple ticket checks, a general overview is given. although there are more requests for a "strip search" than explanation as to why there are more checks.

sad thing is that sometimes those making the "strip search" comments seem to think that it's being original.

oy...

i've never "demanded" to know about some portion of it, but i've been treated well (in general) when treating the individual in kind.

"keep the boarding pass out?"

"yes sir"

"aight..."

it's not every time, not even most of the time. enough times to make me cringe every time i hear it.

i was told once a while back that the way the lines are set up is "airport/airline property" . the different setups, and different checkpoints is the result of the airport and how they decide to build it, the airlines/airport on how they want to set up the lines to the place, and the federales in how they want to man them. so in short, nope-not the passenger's fault-if the screener or airline person has a different procecure they should make it known. like i said before, communication is their responsibility. (but when in doubt, it doesn't hurt to ask, like wearing sneakers...)

i know we all hate to hear the often yelled briefing at the front of the checkpoint, but i'd rather have that and people listen to it and keep things moving than scrambling around to do it right the 2nd time.

but enough of my ramblings...

ooo! one more! people who leave their trash or plastic trays on the table where you load up your stuff. pick it up so i can move!

ok, now i'm done.

So do any consipiracy theorists think that this is just so there can be a "planted" shoe-bomber type so they can increase usage of the shoe removal "rule"?

Hopefully not!

I'm WAY certain the "extra attention" of secondary is primarily for retaliation against anyone who would dare question Big Bro. It serves absolutely no other purpose and is safely beyond the inquiry of all us suspects. Due process?

Doo-doo process!

Enjoy for me, y'all. I don't even want to watch. Might step in somethin' with my wanded bare feet.

Unfortunately, I put nothing past this Administration when it comes to pushing its fascist agenda.

Wag the dog.

I just went through IAH Term B security and the shoe carnival is in full effect. Recommended that I take my shoes off, I say that they are less than an inch and offer him my plastic ruler if he wants to check. He starts to say that they are looking for things other than metal when he realizes that I just gave him the other part of the equation.

I clear the WTMD without alarming and he puts me in the holding pen and calls for a supervisor. When I asked him if it was for my shoes, he would not respond (which is interesting given the new SOP in which you have to know if the reason is for shoes and no WTMD alarm, then you only ETD).

The supervisor eventually makes it over. I am taken over to secondary and they only swab my shoes (so the new SOP is in effect here). I explain to the supervisor about the shoes issue and my offer for measuring. He says that it is up to the screener to make the decision and I understand that, but believe that additional training is needed as SOP is not being followed (which does delay my transist through security). He said that if it was his decision, he would have let me through. I told him that IAH has too much of a focus on shoes and should follow the SOP.

I ask him for a complaint form and he provides me the form with the telephone number on it. I hand him the TSA complaint form that SDF Traveler sent me and ask him about that. He says that form is the one that he is required to fill out and send in.

He asks me a couple of times if I am with the TSA and I ask him if that would really matter. He does give the right answer that it would not. We shake hands and depart.

So at least the new SOP is being followed, but I shouldn't have had the opportunity to check it out.

They should totally have the airport security map on The Weather Channel. Symbols on the map could indicate which security procedures are in effect at which airport.

- A little shoe to indicate "Shoe Carnival"
- A symbol of a ticket to indicate multiple boarding card inspections
- A pen symbol to indicate that the line will be held up due to writing initials
on the boarding cards
- A logo of a person yelling to indicate "screaming screeners"
- A skull and crossbones to indicate gate screening
- A hand logo to indicate "continuous" or increased secondaries
- An open lock logo to indicate that the TSA may "borrow" items from
checked baggage
- An @#!$! sign to indicate "swearing screeners"

Since it changes throughout the day, the Weather Channel could report back with changes.

Passengers could then plan accordingly--adding extra time, taking Valium, picking a different airport, or ensuring that they leave their dignity at home.

Newark will have so many symbols next to it that they'll need a separate box on the map.

Yesterday at Chicago the "new" procedure was not in effect.

Arrived at AA, line was very short (less than 20 people). Screener appeared to be asking everyone to remove shoes. She pointed at mine, I told her "Don't worry, they won't alarm, and they are less than 1"." I walk through, no alarm. She put me in holding pen and I got the full screening. (Totally polite, but no differentiation based on "shoes only, no alarm, first time through detector."

Supervisor doesn't have a ruler (he agrees that it is pretty weird that across the US they seem unable to find a ruler at the screening areas). He says that he "probably" wouldn't have selected my shoes, since they don't appear to be 1" to him. He was also "surprised" that I knew that the standard was "appears to be more than 1"

I can't wait unti they catch someone with a "bra-bomb"