TSA Spends $1200 for Coffee
#16
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Originally Posted by Dovster
I can tell you this -- in private industry, anyone who authorized the rental of these extension cords would be fired. Presumably, Telluride has a hardware store where all 14 could have been bought for a total of about $60 and then kept for future conventions.
I know the food catering costs ran fairly high (the meetings ran long enough each day that we had three meals plus coffee breaks catered), but from having used the same caterer myself before, I know the coffee didn't run anything near what the TSA paid--we just had plain black and decaf, not some Starbucks blend!
#17
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Originally Posted by copwriter
I have zero first-hand knowledge of these charges, but I am betting that the phone call was a conference call. The charge for coffee is pretty much in line with hotel catering costs I have encountered. Hotels charge exhorbitant prices for AV equipment rental, and they often forbid anyone from bringing it in from off site. About the elevator operator charge, I haven't a clue.
I am annually involved in the planning of a law enforcement trainers conference that is always held at a full-service hotel or convention center, and the charges detailed here are not inconsistent with what we have to pay.
I am annually involved in the planning of a law enforcement trainers conference that is always held at a full-service hotel or convention center, and the charges detailed here are not inconsistent with what we have to pay.
#18
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Abuse of public funds should be punished. That's how it was in the military and how I presume it to be anywhere else in the government. As a commander, I've taken UCMJ action against those in my command who abused government resources.
What I object to is the presumption that these practices are officially condoned by TSA. I think what's most likely happened in these instances are:
a) Ignorance of the law. People who were authorized to perform a legitimate function but went about it the wrong way by purchasing something that was outrageously expensive. There's no excuse for this, and the people responsible are still liable for their actions.
b) Unintended consequences. Similar to the first one except this is one where a legitimate purchase may have hidden costs that the buyer was not aware of. Still, no excuse. Part of resource management is a thorough research of a contract before finalizing the purchase. Again, the people responsible for this should still be held liable.
c) Deliberate violation. This is the ol' "damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead" approach, which I witnessed in the military. The real sticky issue here is with who ends up being the "stuckee" once it hits the fan. Usually ends up being the poor purchasing officer who was just following orders. Still, there's no excuse. The problem is that a good person (the purchasing officer) may end up being fried because he/she was following the orders of whoever it was that ordered the purchase. Whenever I served in the capacity as a contracting purchase officer or other job that entailed disbursement of funds, I always kept a file of memorandums for retribution, er, uh, I mean, memorandums for record, which I could later use as get-out-of-jail-free cards should something come up.
Point here is that TSA is not the only government organization to misuse government funds, and it certainly won't be the last. It draws attention because there's a lot of journalism mileage to be made by showing the contradictions between undermanned staffing and old technologies at checkpoints while headquarters is garnished in lavish luxury. Beats the hell out of trying to make the same point with GSA or the Post Office. Still, it should not be condoned, and I hope an investigation is initiated to punish the real culprits.
See, I'm a taxpayer, too. I also want to make sure my tax dollars are being spent wisely.
What I object to is the presumption that these practices are officially condoned by TSA. I think what's most likely happened in these instances are:
a) Ignorance of the law. People who were authorized to perform a legitimate function but went about it the wrong way by purchasing something that was outrageously expensive. There's no excuse for this, and the people responsible are still liable for their actions.
b) Unintended consequences. Similar to the first one except this is one where a legitimate purchase may have hidden costs that the buyer was not aware of. Still, no excuse. Part of resource management is a thorough research of a contract before finalizing the purchase. Again, the people responsible for this should still be held liable.
c) Deliberate violation. This is the ol' "damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead" approach, which I witnessed in the military. The real sticky issue here is with who ends up being the "stuckee" once it hits the fan. Usually ends up being the poor purchasing officer who was just following orders. Still, there's no excuse. The problem is that a good person (the purchasing officer) may end up being fried because he/she was following the orders of whoever it was that ordered the purchase. Whenever I served in the capacity as a contracting purchase officer or other job that entailed disbursement of funds, I always kept a file of memorandums for retribution, er, uh, I mean, memorandums for record, which I could later use as get-out-of-jail-free cards should something come up.
Point here is that TSA is not the only government organization to misuse government funds, and it certainly won't be the last. It draws attention because there's a lot of journalism mileage to be made by showing the contradictions between undermanned staffing and old technologies at checkpoints while headquarters is garnished in lavish luxury. Beats the hell out of trying to make the same point with GSA or the Post Office. Still, it should not be condoned, and I hope an investigation is initiated to punish the real culprits.
See, I'm a taxpayer, too. I also want to make sure my tax dollars are being spent wisely.
#19
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Originally Posted by Bart
Abuse of public funds should be punished. That's how it was in the military and how I presume it to be anywhere else in the government.
If it was close to the end of the fiscal year and there were still funds left over in a unit's budget it was almost mandatory to spend them. If you did not they would be returned to the Treasury and you would risk having future budgets reduced by an equivalent amount.
In the type of units that you and I both served in, ICF monies were the most at risk. By their very nature they were kept for unforeseen events and generally there was still quite a lot left over at the end of the year. It was interesting to see how creative commanders could become in finding ways to spend them.
Is this still the case in the military today? Is there a similiar situation at the TSA?
#20
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Originally Posted by Dovster
Bart, that was not the case when I was in the military. In fact, there was one situation where wasting public funds was very strong encouraged:
If it was close to the end of the fiscal year and there were still funds left over in a unit's budget it was almost mandatory to spend them. If you did not they would be returned to the Treasury and you would risk having future budgets reduced by an equivalent amount.
In the type of units that you and I both served in, ICF monies were the most at risk. By their very nature they were kept for unforeseen events and generally there was still quite a lot left over at the end of the year. It was interesting to see how creative commanders could become in finding ways to spend them.
Is this still the case in the military today? Is there a similiar situation at the TSA?
If it was close to the end of the fiscal year and there were still funds left over in a unit's budget it was almost mandatory to spend them. If you did not they would be returned to the Treasury and you would risk having future budgets reduced by an equivalent amount.
In the type of units that you and I both served in, ICF monies were the most at risk. By their very nature they were kept for unforeseen events and generally there was still quite a lot left over at the end of the year. It was interesting to see how creative commanders could become in finding ways to spend them.
Is this still the case in the military today? Is there a similiar situation at the TSA?
Yes, the end-of-year rush still exists; however, not as haphazardly. They must still comply with all the rules and regulations. The way I've seen it done is that commanders identify and prioritize unresourced requirements so that as funds become available, then they may be resourced. They still have to go through all the wickets and permissions as they would with resourced requirements. It's a matter of differentiating between the "gotta have" and "nice to have" but not in terms of luxury; usually in terms of mission priorities (need a new tactical vehicle first before purchasing an upgraded computer LAN).
As for the "other" funds, interesting point. I've seen people fried because they were off by a few bucks on their accounts, yet have also witnessed thousands of dollars spent on something that I couldn't quite comprehend as legit yet was somehow rationalized as such. I also saw it where we had to hang onto receipts and track everything by the penny yet in other instances wads of bills handed out like candy. It's a very strange and goofy world you and I participated in.
#21
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off topic, but....
The CONUS DOD per diem rates are set by the GSA. So they are the same and are applicable to TSA.
Originally Posted by exerda
Wouldn't the Marriott Marquis exceed the published GSA (and DoD, although DoD isn't applicable to the TSA) per diem rates for lodging? Wonder who authorized having meetings / a conference there?!! 

Last edited by aljacket; Jul 2, 2005 at 7:20 am
#22
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Originally Posted by Dovster
Presumably, Telluride has a hardware store where all 14 could have been bought for a total of about $60 and then kept for future conventions.
#23
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Originally Posted by Bart
It's a very strange and goofy world you and I participated in.
#24


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Originally Posted by Dovster
* $1,540 to rent 14 extension cords at $5 each per day for three weeks at the Wyndham Peaks Resort and Golden Door Spa in Telluride, Colo;
I can tell you this -- in private industry, anyone who authorized the rental of these extension cords would be fired. Presumably, Telluride has a hardware store where all 14 could have been bought for a total of about $60 and then kept for future conventions.
I can tell you this -- in private industry, anyone who authorized the rental of these extension cords would be fired. Presumably, Telluride has a hardware store where all 14 could have been bought for a total of about $60 and then kept for future conventions.
For the conference that I mentioned previously, our AV costs have sometimes approached $20,000 for four days of presentations. This can always be negotiated with the hotel to make a complete conference package, but they're going to get their money, one way or another.
While I agree that $1540 is an unconscionable amount of money to spend to rent extension cords, hotels have no hesitation in charging it.
#25


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Originally Posted by exerda
I know the food catering costs ran fairly high (the meetings ran long enough each day that we had three meals plus coffee breaks catered), but from having used the same caterer myself before, I know the coffee didn't run anything near what the TSA paid--we just had plain black and decaf, not some Starbucks blend! 
I just looked at the price list for catering at the Boardwalk Hotel/Casino in Las Vegas, where there is another conference I am involved in planning. Coffee (plain old coffee, not Starbucks) is $21 per gallon or $13 per Silex. In my experience, this is a very good price.
TSA may not have negotiated well in planning their conference, which is typical for government meetings in my experience, but the prices they were charged are not all that out of line, either.
#26


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Originally Posted by Bart
Yes, the end-of-year rush still exists; however, not as haphazardly. They must still comply with all the rules and regulations. The way I've seen it done is that commanders identify and prioritize unresourced requirements so that as funds become available, then they may be resourced. They still have to go through all the wickets and permissions as they would with resourced requirements. It's a matter of differentiating between the "gotta have" and "nice to have" but not in terms of luxury; usually in terms of mission priorities (need a new tactical vehicle first before purchasing an upgraded computer LAN).
#27
Join Date: Jan 2003
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Originally Posted by Bart
Yes, the end-of-year rush still exists; however, not as haphazardly. They must still comply with all the rules and regulations. The way I've seen it done is that commanders identify and prioritize unresourced requirements so that as funds become available, then they may be resourced. They still have to go through all the wickets and permissions as they would with resourced requirements. It's a matter of differentiating between the "gotta have" and "nice to have" but not in terms of luxury; usually in terms of mission priorities (need a new tactical vehicle first before purchasing an upgraded computer LAN).
As for the "other" funds, interesting point. I've seen people fried because they were off by a few bucks on their accounts, yet have also witnessed thousands of dollars spent on something that I couldn't quite comprehend as legit yet was somehow rationalized as such. I also saw it where we had to hang onto receipts and track everything by the penny yet in other instances wads of bills handed out like candy. It's a very strange and goofy world you and I participated in.
As for the "other" funds, interesting point. I've seen people fried because they were off by a few bucks on their accounts, yet have also witnessed thousands of dollars spent on something that I couldn't quite comprehend as legit yet was somehow rationalized as such. I also saw it where we had to hang onto receipts and track everything by the penny yet in other instances wads of bills handed out like candy. It's a very strange and goofy world you and I participated in.
#28
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This was in the SFBay area. Prices are higher there than in Tupelo, MS.
As for the elevator operator fee - I was at a union controlled construction site in Las Vegas last month, we had to fork over $500 cash to use the elevator to get to the top floor and conduct some tests. Back in Feb. I was at another union controlled building in downtown Chicago - 48th floor - I was not allowed back on the elevator until I produced some cash (200 asking price). I elected the stairs since I only had my briefcase and photo equipment.
As for the elevator operator fee - I was at a union controlled construction site in Las Vegas last month, we had to fork over $500 cash to use the elevator to get to the top floor and conduct some tests. Back in Feb. I was at another union controlled building in downtown Chicago - 48th floor - I was not allowed back on the elevator until I produced some cash (200 asking price). I elected the stairs since I only had my briefcase and photo equipment.
#29
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Originally Posted by tsadude
What really irks me about this whole deal is that TSA won't allow money to go for such things as safety awards (plaques, coffee mugs,frames for safety certificates)
Assuming you're not kidding, what would the criteria be? Most number of retaliatory secondaries? Fewest number of prohibited items missed? Number of bags searched?
Originally Posted by tsadude
but they are screaming about how high the injury rate is. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
I'm sure there are some physically fit people who get injured, but having seen what I've seen, I would imagine physical fitness standards would greatly reduce the number of OTJ injuries.
Last edited by LessO2; Jul 2, 2005 at 7:03 pm Reason: quote box fixing
#30


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Originally Posted by LessO2
I'm sure there are some physically fit people who get injured, but having seen what I've seen, I would imagine physical fitness standards would greatly reduce the number of OTJ injuries.
My old department had an annual physical fitness test that everyone had to take, but that no one had to pass (no, I'm not sure what the point of it was, either). One of the tests was a sit-and-reach flexibility test. Every year, the same officer would take the test and then put himself in for an on-the-job injury to his back from overstrain. He would be off work for at least a month, and I have no idea what medical costs ensued.
Where the TSA is concerned, their OTJ injuries come from the same sort of activities that warehousemen and stock handlers perform - lifting and carrying things. Proper techniques, wearing back braces/lifting belts, and asking for assistance when something is too heavy can all prevent injuries, and safety awards promote this. It's a practice widely used in private industry, and tends to reduce injuries. If it didn't have a positive effect on the bottom line, private industry wouldn't do it.

