I too often find the TSA folks who process me friendly or at least couteous. I think the issue for many on this board including me is that a smile while it is being "suggested" you remove your shoes, or a kind word when you are yet again sent to the SSSS line doesn't make it more acceptable.

In other words, I have general respect for many of the individuals who work the front line for the TSA, but not the mission they are on or asked to do.

I really cannot understand -- and maybe I'm losing patience with -- people who say that they respect the individuals who work the front lines for the TSA but not its mission. This is internally contradictory. People who would work for an agency with such a befuddled mission and incompetent execution do not deserve our respect. I would respect them much much more if they just quit. I can't believe that the articulate TSA employees who post here (and many of them military veterans besides) can't find real jobs.

Bruce

Well said, this has been my experience as well. ^ ^

I see your point but at the same time, there are alot of government agencies we must interact with that have missions I disagree with for one reason or another. I have never asked an employee of the TSA if they support their mission or what they are doing. But whether I agree or not, I have a feeling many of them do, and if that's the case, then I have to choose to agree to disagree, and get through security. That is how I can come to terms with supporting the individual and not the employer.

You, too, have a very good point. Occasionally, I meet a TSA employee (or, even better, a supervisor) who admits that much of what they have to do is stupid. It happened to me on March 16 in Newark. That's a breath of fresh air that's much too rare, unfortunately. Most TSA employees are gung ho maniacs who insist in their peculiar thuggish way that they are "keeping us safe." With guardians like that, who needs terrorists?

Anyway, the real answer over the long term is for TSA employees to complain as loudly as we do about stupid procedures. Then management would have to listen to us -- and things would change.

Bruce

Good thing I don't fit in that category as I do support the mission of the TSA.

tismfu ducks to avoid hurling of tomatoes.


And how do you know that "Most TSA employees are gung ho maniacs"? Have you done psychiatric evaluations on more than 50% of the TSA employee base? Have you even encountered more than 50% of the TSA employee base? Maybe you've talked to about a dozen other FlyerTalkers who say it's so, so it is?


Your declaration of the TSA having a 'befuddled mission' and 'incompetent execution' is merely opinion. Just because you believe it to be true does not make it so. And I'm glad people don't quit to gain the 'respect' of others who don't like what they do.

While I might not agree with a certain agency or political party's position it doesn't mean that I don't respect the individuals who are a part of the organization. An example: you support Proposition X in order to achieve Z and work for a group who promotes X. I vehemently oppose X and instead support Y to achieve Z. Does that mean that I cannot respect you? I have many friends who have fundamentally different beliefs than I, many of which I can't even begin to comprehend. I still respect them. If I didn't I would hope they didn't respect me either. I don't think I would be deserving of their respect, for that matter. The important issue is that we are both trying to reach the same goal, we merely prefer taking different paths in order to get there. If we don't respect each other we fail at common decency, in my humble opinion.


Excellent point.

What is your favorite flavor of Kool-Aid? I bet you buy pre-mixed, so that you do not have to measure any sugar, but rather just add water.

Oh well, different strokes for different folks.

^

This is not a contradictory position to take - many say the exact same about our military today (love the troops, hate the Iraq mission).

I guess you don't quite understand the whole respect thing. I must be on something if I don't agree with you, right?

No wonder some of you have such terrible TSA experiences... they probably spot your mean-spiritedness and detestation for them from a mile away.

Are "mean-spiritedness" and "detestation" security risks? TSA screeners should concentrate on the real security risks, lest they miss butcher knives (EWR several weeks ago). Maybe concentrate on the tons of unscreened cargo that is currently transported on passenger airliners.

Moreover, respect is a two way street. As an attorney in the field of litigation, I routinely go through screening at courthouses. Sheriffs and bailiffs that I have seen as a general rule treated people entering courthouses much better than TSA screeners treat passengers.

I am guessing lemon-lime.

TISMFU,
Please keep in mind that virtually every FF in this forum has their agenda towards TSA. In many ways, I agree with them. In many ways, I disagree. If there is one thing I have noticed here, no positive comment will go unchallenged. If you have something positive to say about TSA and decide to post it here, be prepared for an attack. It's just that some folks are very passionate for their hatred towards us.

It that Freedom of Expression that makes us the great country that we are.

You know, after thinking about it, I think I feel the same way about the guy at Chipotle tonight who made my chicken burrito. The way he scooped the bin full of rice....simply fluid. The effortless way the black beans were delicately danced around that tortilla of taste...yummm. The way he put the sour cream on there -- MAGNIFIQUE!

Ridiculous paragraph? Pretty synonymous with the way I feel about some comments in this string.

If you think people who disagree with the TSA have agendas, think again. We are simply pointing out our frustrations with the inconsistencies and lack of security outside of the $5b dog-and-pony show. Pardon me for thinking that $5 billion a year should produce consistent secuirty measures, consistently catching things like butcher knives, and at least the retrieval of fake bombs. I don't think we should have to pack the items in our checked bags by prioritizing by what we think the TSA may or may not steal.

We might have Freedom of Expression, but when we're dealing with an government agency that skirts the Fourth Amendment and classifies 99.6% of their information as SSI, the Constitutional warm and fuzzies don't work.

Perhaps because a court house isn't exactly like a busy airport terminal where passengers and flight crews are often hurried and the TSA has to search tons of carry-ons? Also, the few times I have been through court house security I was treated fine, but not with the same courteousness and friendliness that I have recently been receiving from the TSA. Does that mean it's true for everyone? Certainly not. But merely because your experiences don't sync with mine doesn't mean I am on something.


I am guessing they didn't teach you about respect at law school. You can't seem to resist insulting a fellow FTer who doesn't hold your opinions on the TSA. What a great way to further your point. Do you also engage in ad hominem arguments in your trials?

As I said previously, respect is a two-way street. A wise Jesuit once spoke to my class about escalation. That is a lesson I have always remembered.

The worst thing I said about another attorney at trial was to refer to a point he made during his closing argument as a bunch of crap. He objected and the judge cautioned me, but the jury convicted the dope dealer and his appeal was denied, so no harm, no foul.

"Drinking the Kool-Aid" is not an ad hominem attack, in my opinion, especially not with respect to defending an agency that has lied about collecting passenger data, that routinely threatens and intimidates passengers, and that tramples First and Fourth Amendment rights. Let's not even get into internal TSA problems, such as sexual harassment, cronyism, waste of taxpayers' money on lavish parties and "lifetime" awards, etc.

So once again, because you don't agree with my position on the TSA, because clearly I must have a few screws loose, it's okay to insult me? Must be lawyer-speak.

I have not experienced any of the things above which you list. Does that mean they don't or haven't happened? No. Does that mean I am going to let them taint my good experiences with the TSA? No. Just like I won't stop flying an airline because people complain about being treated poorly by an FA, I won't change my opinion of the front-line personnel of the TSA until I have an experience where they threaten or intimidate me or do something else which leaves a bad impression.

And internal problems (at least the problems you listed that are problems and not just your opinions)? I would venture a guess that nearly all large organizations have internal problems. Let's shut 'em all down and disrespect anyone who works for them!