Bruce,

In reading your comments, I can't help but think of my own job and the folks I work for. As a flight attendant, I think people can respect me and question the company I work for...I don't think incompetent execution of which my crew and I have no control over has any reflection on me and the job I do. (Boy, there was a lot of "me", "my" and "I" in that sentence...sure hope it made sense!) It just is what it is. We do our best to deal with the crapola handed to us on any given day.

And, with all the annoyances that come with the security checkpoints, you have to admit, since its' inception, the TSA has completed their befuddled mission with 100% accuracy.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I do not consider "drinking the Kool-Aid" to be an insult. Depending on how the flight attendant treated me, I would stop flying on that airline if I had a choice. I do not patronize businesses that treat me poorly.

If you fly often enough, I can almost guarantee that TSA will do something which will leave a bad impression. For me, leaving a bad impression includes the Shoe Carnival, not changing gloves before rooting through my toiletries, pat-down searches, and the general power trip, such as screeners barking, "Keep your leg up!" when hand wanding. In fact, TSA screening is such a farce in light of the holes in our security, such as our lack of border security, the lack of screening of much of the cargo transported on passenger airliners, and the lack of attention paid to foreigners from countries whose nationals/citizens have attacked us, that it is difficult for me to have any positive feelings toward this agency. Compounding this litany of problems is the fact that my taxes are wasted on this agency.

We cannot be sure that TSA has completed its "befuddled mission" with 100% accuracy. In fact, given the number of knives, guns, and other truly dangerous instruments TSA has missed, it is not 100% by that measure. The lack of terrorist attacks does not mean that TSA has been effective. Terrorists may have decided not to attack U.S. aviation since 9/11. "Post hac, propter hac" - after that, because of that - is faulty reasoning.

The lack of terrorist attacks does not mean the TSA has been ineffective, either.

I have a magic rock that keeps terrorists away. You don't believe me? Well, since I've been carrying it, no terrorists have attacked me. So it works!

You want to buy it from me?

Bruce

My point exactly! Since I have not been treated poorly by the TSA, I am not going to disrespect them. How is that so difficult to comprehend?


Well, I'm not a top-tier flyer, but I am mid-tier on American; same as you. So I'd hazard a guess that we are somewhere in the same vicinity when it comes to BIS miles. Regardless, we both fly a lot more than the average passenger. I do have to take off my shoes. That's it. I never get secondaries and the TSA never searches my bag. Surely at 50,000 miles a year you would have figured out how to avoid the security hassles? I know I have. Like I have said to others on this thread, maybe one day we can fly together and you can observe how I pack and how I act at security to hopefully pick up some pointers... respectfully, with all the 'barking' and secondary screening you get it sounds like you need them!


I'll be the first to admit that we have a lot to do to further our national security. But simply because we don't have it done perfectly doesn't mean we should stop it all. If we followed that policy for all things imagine what would get accomplished. I'd guess nothing. Unless of course the TSA-bashers on FT ran the government... then it'd probably be perfect.

And if we paid more attention to foreigners from countries whose citizens have attacked us I'm sure there'd be plenty who'd be up-in-arms-livid about racial profiling and declaring the whole system a farce and a waste of their money.


That's a fact? Sure sounds like an opinion to me... or maybe just more lawyer-speak?

There is an old say that puts it very well: " Do something good and you are recognized for 5 minutes. Make a mistake and you are criticized forever." Such is the case with things like the butcher knife in EWR. THere is an agenda with some of the FF posters here. Some of them are totally anti-government. Some of them long for the good old days when you could just get straight on a plane and they would go back to that in an instant. Some of them have been mistreated and hold ill feelings forever. What ever the case may be, you wont get any slack from them and some will argue just for the sake of it.

I spent nearly a decade working for the Federal government -- and actually contributing something to our society! I'm clearly not anti-government. I don't care about the butcher knife at EWR, because a butcher knife could not be used to hijack a plane any more. I have had conflicts with TSA staff because I refuse to act like a sheeple. Given enough time, everybody will see bad behavior on the part of TSA staff, simply because the number of staff is so large and they are so unaccountable. Management is really, really bad. Front-line staff have learned that they can do almost anything as long as they claim it's to "keep us safe." Pedophiles should try that!

As I've said a million times, here and elsewhere, I don't mind reasonable, European-style airport security. I do mind time-consuming, unnecessarily intrusive or just plain stupid procedures conducted by overbearing staff on a power trip. And that's all too common at U.S. airports today.

Bruce

Submitted respectfully, I think you're seeing this through blinders. DEN is probably the most attentive airport when it comes to PR...smiling, being jovial, being courteous. No question.

But eyecue, go to some other airports, IAD, EWR, LGA, SFO, SEA (to name a few) and go see how rude the other TSA screeners can be. I'm not stating the inconsistent security measures (different story), but the window dressing is totally different at other airports.

No...I don't want to mess up the anti-terrorist karma you and that rock have together...you keep carrying it, and keeping us safe!

I do not know why, but about 65% of the time I fly, I get chosen for selectee screening - SSSS on the boarding pass. A couple of times, I have flown a multi-city route, from home base to City B to City C and back to home base. My understanding is that the wonderful software the airlines have used for years under the direction of first the FAA and now TSA flags non-round trip travel as a heightened security risk. But most of the time, I fly on tickets bought 5-10 days in advance on the law firm's American Express card. I do not set off the WTMD's, because I know to put everything that is metallic into my briefcase. So no, I do not know how to avoid the security hassles.

As to profiling, taking into account a person's ethnic background is just one factor in profiling effectively. Several other countries know how to do it, so we should too. There was a time not too long ago when Americans knew that if something was right, we should do it, regardless of what the rest of the world thought. Now, from a 5 justice majority of the Supreme Court (the recent Simmons case from Missouri) to talk show hosts and big media, we have to take into account world opinion. Ha!

We do pay a lot of attention to people from those countries. Getting a visa from any country which requires a visa these days is an extremely lengthy and expensive process.

What more would you suggest we do?

And how does racial profiling of dark skinned people help keep us safe against the ever-increasing threat from white right-wing extremists?

PatrickHenry1775 are you saying that some screeners are tying to make pax balance on one leg while being wanded - or is this for someone graciously allowed to sit during the secondary:

This is so much fun reading I had to chime in...
I am a manufacturing accountant. I make my living in the world between beurocracy and practical execution (getting things done). I often deal with auditors who live on the letter of the enforcement of the law without considering the consequences. I also deal with manufacturing folks who want to (excuse the expression) �fly by the seat of their pants� with no controls. My job is to ensure one happens in consideration of the other.

As I travel (about 80k miles / yr), I watch TSA�s who �get it�, and many who don�t. I think it great when someone screening my bag says �what�s this?� regarding one of the many electronic gadgets I travel with. I have no problem explaining it to them since as far as their concerned it could be a bomb. Sorry some may disagree, but my view is I give up my right to privacy regarding what I bring on board that plane as part of boarding �public� transportation. (I am sure I will get zinged on that one, ouch ). However, it makes me nuts when I am told to take off my �slipper-thin shoes� (that I bought a couple years ago so they wouldn't set off the MD's) because that is the new reg just because one guy tries to light his on fire. I can�t wait for the guy who tries to light his underwear on fire. What are they going to ask me to do then?

The bottom line for me is as someone here has said, let�s have people who are willing to use their God given intellect do this job. I do agree with part of the originator of this thread that there are many, many who are. ( and no I do not have numbers for you, that�s the whole point of a vague comment ) The idea of screening to the letter of the law, may make your boss happy and get you a good review, but it most often will add nothing to the result of what you are supposed to accomplish. This is what makes me most upset. It drives me nuts to see people who �check their brain at the punch-clock� and quote the TSA manual.

I agree, the system stinks. Trash it, overhaul it, whatever it takes. I don't feel safe but then, like most travellers, I'm pretty ignorant anyway. (unofficial poll, geographically broad - USA, Germany, UK, Ireland, but limited to employees of my company - just in case anyone's going to ask)

Okay, that's enough for one post. That�s my 4 cents factored for inflation (my mother would have said 2 cents about 20 years ago)

Glad I found this forum, it looks like fun. Look forward to reading more from you all.

ROFL That mental image has got to give you a chuckle.

Or how bout this one...
"Uh sir, I'm sorry to inconvenience you but, could you rub your belly and pat your head one more time, my scanner wasn't working properly..."

I think there is a Leslie Nielson movie thing about that... Anybody see Airplane?