Logic and the SSSS

Old Dec 27, 04, 10:40 pm
  #1  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Programs: DL DM, AA Plat, Hilton Diamond, SPG Gold
Posts: 12,171
Logic and the SSSS

Can the experts help me out on this one?

3 out of 5 people in my family were SSSSed at OGG yesterday. We were on Hawaiian to HNL on the second half of a standalone r/t (we connected to IND on different airline, we checked in for our other flight upon arriving at HNL).

Lots of fun watching my wife, 7 year old son and 9 year old daughter getting the full SSSS "treatment". Even more comical was "the treatment" in light of their attire: shorts, t-shirts and flip flops. Full wanding, pat down ect. OGG was busy, they did not do a through search of our carryons (or a residual scan).

My questions: First, all 5 members of my family were on the same PNR, why only SSSS 3 of us? Second, why does the TSA wand bare feet? Or are the agents programmed to follow a certain SOP regardles of how dumb it looks?
skofarrell is offline  
Old Dec 28, 04, 5:26 am
  #2  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 704
Thousand Standing Around (TSA) is afraid that your family might be packing several pounds of C4 masquerading as toe jam. Of course, we all know that it can't be detected by "the wand".

If you're looking for logic behind the haraSSSSment, expect none. This agency is just like a spoiled child at times, beyond logic, compassion, or reason. And as a spoiled child, needs to be punished (preferably disbanded) for some of the asinine things they concoct.
Peetah is offline  
Old Dec 28, 04, 7:07 am
  #3  
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Arizona, USA
Posts: 2,247
I think the logic is quite clear:
Your wife, daughter, and son are probably terrorists; the other two members of your family are not.

I mean--how much do you really know about your 7 year-old? Is he who he says he is? Have you looked at his driver's license? For all we know, your 7 year-old could be a 30 year-old female Chechnyan terrorist with plastique hidden in his flip-flops.

Don't you think you're being just a little naive?

There has been an increasing amount of "chatter" involving brainwashing children to carry exploding flip-flops. Of course this information is highly classified. Fortunately TSA personnel have been briefed on a particular terrorist "profile"
- School-age
- Flip-flop wielding
- In a t-shirt
- Appearing to be "on vacation" with "siblings" and "parents"

Thank goodness the Department of Homeland Security is staying one step ahead of these "bad guys!"

I think you need to go frisk all of your children before it's too late for all of us!
Mats is offline  
Old Dec 28, 04, 9:14 am
  #4  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: An NPR mind living in a Fox News world
Posts: 13,370
Hey, buddy... I think it's about time you had a random home search. It's for your own protection. You have nothing to hide, of course...
FliesWay2Much is offline  
Old Dec 28, 04, 2:55 pm
  #5  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 704
Originally Posted by Mats
I think you need to go frisk all of your children before it's too late for all of us!
And guess who goes to jail for child molestation?
Peetah is offline  
Old Dec 28, 04, 11:59 pm
  #6  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: AA, WN RR
Posts: 3,122
Originally Posted by Peetah
And guess who goes to jail for child molestation?
We all know who will not go to jail for child molestation, or for that matter molestation of adult travelers.
PatrickHenry1775 is offline  
Old Dec 29, 04, 10:04 am
  #7  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Colorado
Programs: TSA
Posts: 2,745
what?

You are overlooking the fact that on the PNR there is no place for age. The computer doesnt know if the person is 9mo or 99 years old.
eyecue is offline  
Old Dec 29, 04, 12:00 pm
  #8  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Nashville -Past DL Plat, FO, WN-CP, various hotel programs
Programs: DL-MM, AA, SW w/companion,HiltonDiamond, Hyatt PLat, IHF Plat, Miles and Points Seeker
Posts: 9,028
Excuse me, but you are missing the most obvious lack of logic in this whole thing.

They tell you IN ADVANCE that you are subject to SSSS. Therefore, if you have anything dangerous, you give it to somebody else to carry on. If you are really a bad guy, maybe you opt not to fly. Of you buy another ticket for another flight to get through security.

In this particular case, your terrorist kids could give the bad stuff to you to carry on.

What a joke! What GOOD CAN THIS POSSIBLY DO?
NoStressHere is offline  
Old Dec 29, 04, 12:04 pm
  #9  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Colorado
Programs: TSA
Posts: 2,745
whoa

Originally Posted by NoStressHere
Excuse me, but you are missing the most obvious lack of logic in this whole thing.

They tell you IN ADVANCE that you are subject to SSSS. Therefore, if you have anything dangerous, you give it to somebody else to carry on. If you are really a bad guy, maybe you opt not to fly. Of you buy another ticket for another flight to get through security.

In this particular case, your terrorist kids could give the bad stuff to you to carry on.

What a joke! What GOOD CAN THIS POSSIBLY DO?
ITs called displacement. IT is an active theory of security.
eyecue is offline  
Old Dec 29, 04, 12:08 pm
  #10  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Northern Colorado
Programs: UA 1K - 2MM, Hilton Diamond, Lifetime Marriott Platinum Elite, Hertz President's Circle
Posts: 10,286
Originally Posted by skofarrell
Can the experts help me out on this one?

3 out of 5 people in my family were SSSSed at OGG yesterday. We were on Hawaiian to HNL on the second half of a standalone r/t (we connected to IND on different airline, we checked in for our other flight upon arriving at HNL).

Lots of fun watching my wife, 7 year old son and 9 year old daughter getting the full SSSS "treatment". Even more comical was "the treatment" in light of their attire: shorts, t-shirts and flip flops. Full wanding, pat down ect. OGG was busy, they did not do a through search of our carryons (or a residual scan).

My questions: First, all 5 members of my family were on the same PNR, why only SSSS 3 of us? Second, why does the TSA wand bare feet? Or are the agents programmed to follow a certain SOP regardles of how dumb it looks?
Ok, you can tell us. What was really in those Leis?
RobotDoctor is offline  
Old Dec 29, 04, 2:46 pm
  #11  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Programs: Alaska Airlines, Delta, UA Premier 1K, Hawaiian Air
Posts: 112
Originally Posted by eyecue
You are overlooking the fact that on the PNR there is no place for age. The computer doesnt know if the person is 9mo or 99 years old.
You are missing the point...there is an inherent lack of common sense here as it's obvious to both your agency and the airline whether or not the passenger is a minor.

Regardless, since you apparently do not appreciate the basic common-sense arguement regarding this issue, the carrier or TSA have the authority to deselect minors for haraSSSSment. Time for you to review your SOP.
MMA95D is offline  
Old Dec 29, 04, 10:31 pm
  #12  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Programs: DL DM, AA Plat, Hilton Diamond, SPG Gold
Posts: 12,171
Originally Posted by eyecue
You are overlooking the fact that on the PNR there is no place for age. The computer doesnt know if the person is 9mo or 99 years old.
What you are overlooking is my original question, why only 3 out of 5 on the same PNR? I'd feel better if we were all secondaried.
skofarrell is offline  
Old Dec 29, 04, 10:32 pm
  #13  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Programs: DL DM, AA Plat, Hilton Diamond, SPG Gold
Posts: 12,171
Originally Posted by RobotDoctor
Ok, you can tell us. What was really in those Leis?
Caught. They were poppy leis. But they handed 'em to me and I made it thru!
skofarrell is offline  
Old Dec 29, 04, 10:48 pm
  #14  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: AA, WN RR
Posts: 3,122
Originally Posted by skofarrell
What you are overlooking is my original question, why only 3 out of 5 on the same PNR? I'd feel better if we were all secondaried.
I am not privy to TSA SOP and I do not know security theory, but common sense dictates that if 3 of 5 people on the same PNR were flagged with SSSS designation, the other 2 should also be SSSS. More evidence that the entire security/screening regimen is dog and pony show. If we are truly serious about security, then screen everyone. If resources is an issue, then concentrate on travelers most likely to be terrorists. The Israeli model of looking for dangerous people, not dangerous things, is probably the best method.
PatrickHenry1775 is offline  
Old Dec 29, 04, 10:50 pm
  #15  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Arlington VA
Posts: 5,734
Originally Posted by eyecue
ITs called displacement. IT is an active theory of security.
Yep. It gives terrorists advance warning to 'displace' their bad items into a un SSSS'd colleague's carry on.
AArlington is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread