Why is the Opt Out available?
#46

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,964
And every experience is going to be different, every single time, no exceptions.
Airports are different, TSO's are different, the guy in front of you is different, as is the loud-mouth behind you. TSO's are not robots, each of us was raised differently than every other TSO, we have different experiences, different opinions, different lives. If you are looking for the exact same experience every single time then go sit in a dark room somewhere, that will be as close as you ever get.
Airports are different, TSO's are different, the guy in front of you is different, as is the loud-mouth behind you. TSO's are not robots, each of us was raised differently than every other TSO, we have different experiences, different opinions, different lives. If you are looking for the exact same experience every single time then go sit in a dark room somewhere, that will be as close as you ever get.
I can certainly make a judgement based on my own personal experiences at TSA checkpoints as well as at checkpoints around the world as to how well TSA in general performs, and what trends are like at certain airports.
#47
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 240
I had a really spirited discussion with my dentist (well as spirited as I could be while having my teeth cleaned) recently about the NoS. Her comment: "I wouldn't go near those things. Our x-ray machines are calibrated every 6 months and I know the exact amount of radiation given off every time we use it."
It's not the dosage I get from one scan that concerns me. I'm sure it's low enough to not make me turn green or sprout a third eye. What concerns me is the cumulative effect of being scanned 100, 200, 300+ times a year over many years. I fly about 150 flights a year. Over a 5 year period, I could get scanned 1,500 times. That much extra x-ray radiation can't be good.
I have a family member who worked in regulatory compliance for a major company that made CT scanners. His stories about their products scare the living hell out of me.
It's not the dosage I get from one scan that concerns me. I'm sure it's low enough to not make me turn green or sprout a third eye. What concerns me is the cumulative effect of being scanned 100, 200, 300+ times a year over many years. I fly about 150 flights a year. Over a 5 year period, I could get scanned 1,500 times. That much extra x-ray radiation can't be good.
I have a family member who worked in regulatory compliance for a major company that made CT scanners. His stories about their products scare the living hell out of me.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewr...ves/86199.html
UPDATE from Marc:
I flew from SFO to Long Beach Sunday night on Jet blue, which is located in the international terminal. When I got to the screening point the TSA agent was standing in the metal detector and motioning everyone into the porn scanner. I immediately said that I was opting out. I was told that I would have to wait longer and I replied thats fine I can wait a little longer and take the extra few years of my life on the back end. When it came time to do the screening the TSA agent, who was polite, asked what my reasoning was. I told him that I was a Chiropractor who was licensed to take X-RAYS and was very hesitant about unnecessary radiation. I also explained when taking X-rays I must wear a meter to measure X-ray radiation, and I asked, in a concerned voice, why the TSA staff wasnt wearing these. He looked puzzled and at that point I explained that he and the rest of the staff should see an Oncologist every six months or so until the scientific studies come out fully detailing their safety. The TSA officials while amicable,actually look shell-shocked, as if they know they are stuck in a dead end job.
#48
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 30,986
Don't x-ray technicians LEAVE the room when you get an x-ray? Here's a brilliant quote from this website about one tso's reaction to the radiation risks:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewr...ves/86199.html
UPDATE from Marc:
I flew from SFO to Long Beach Sunday night on Jet blue, which is located in the international terminal. When I got to the screening point the TSA agent was standing in the metal detector and motioning everyone into the porn scanner. I immediately said that I was opting out. I was told that I would have to wait longer and I replied thats fine I can wait a little longer and take the extra few years of my life on the back end. When it came time to do the screening the TSA agent, who was polite, asked what my reasoning was. I told him that I was a Chiropractor who was licensed to take X-RAYS and was very hesitant about unnecessary radiation. I also explained when taking X-rays I must wear a meter to measure X-ray radiation, and I asked, in a concerned voice, why the TSA staff wasnt wearing these. He looked puzzled and at that point I explained that he and the rest of the staff should see an Oncologist every six months or so until the scientific studies come out fully detailing their safety. The TSA officials while amicable,actually look shell-shocked, as if they know they are stuck in a dead end job.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewr...ves/86199.html
UPDATE from Marc:
I flew from SFO to Long Beach Sunday night on Jet blue, which is located in the international terminal. When I got to the screening point the TSA agent was standing in the metal detector and motioning everyone into the porn scanner. I immediately said that I was opting out. I was told that I would have to wait longer and I replied thats fine I can wait a little longer and take the extra few years of my life on the back end. When it came time to do the screening the TSA agent, who was polite, asked what my reasoning was. I told him that I was a Chiropractor who was licensed to take X-RAYS and was very hesitant about unnecessary radiation. I also explained when taking X-rays I must wear a meter to measure X-ray radiation, and I asked, in a concerned voice, why the TSA staff wasnt wearing these. He looked puzzled and at that point I explained that he and the rest of the staff should see an Oncologist every six months or so until the scientific studies come out fully detailing their safety. The TSA officials while amicable,actually look shell-shocked, as if they know they are stuck in a dead end job.
Dead ending job may be very close to the truth
#49
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,389
Please don't expect credence in what you espouse here when so many TSA screeners do exactly the opposite. You remind me of gsotso suggesting to file complainants when the reality is your exalted management ignores them.
Really quite sad Bart, you could be so more productive if only you would realize how little the TSA is going to change even with your input.
Really quite sad Bart, you could be so more productive if only you would realize how little the TSA is going to change even with your input.
I think it's pretty arrogant of you to tell me how I can be more productive in your eyes. You could be more productive if you quit your whining and become more active in the community. How's that? Why don't you run for office and fix it from the White House on down?
Sharing ideas is one thing, and I'm open to a good discussion and exchange of different views. However, when you think you have the right to tell me how I can live my life better, I have a tendency to tell you to pound sand. So let's agree to keep the personal stuff out of it and just stick to sharing ideas.
#50
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,657
And until that changes, TSA will continue to be viewed by the public as less effective than fast food restaurants. After all, I can walk into a McDonald's anywhere in the country and get the exact same experience as the McDonald's down the street from my home. Why TSA can't achieve that same level of consistency, with a higher quality work force, is beyond my comprehension.
#51
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: RDU
Programs: OnePass
Posts: 772
We should all be able to transit every airport and be able to expect exactly what will happen to us.
But instead, we get inconsistency. What I experience at RDU is miles different from what I expect at EWR or MCO or SAN.
And that shouldn't be the case. The rules are what they are, and they should be enfoced evenly and uniformly.
But that makes sense, therefore the TSA won't do it.
Until this happens, and until the SOP is released to the public so we can be aware of what is expected and what will happen, the TSA will practice security theatre instead of real security.
#52

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,964
Let me clarify that I am not referring to 'consistent inconsistency' to fool the bad people.... (I think that is an excuse to cover poor training or reinforcement, frankly)
I am referring to the items which TSA lists on their website as permitted, and what they list as process.
Sometimes it feels as if the rules are made up as they go along. Airport A permits something if the sky is grey, there is an R in the month, and the screener is in the first hour of their shift. Airport B permits the same item only in months containing a A, the sky is blue, and the screener had chicken for lunch. Airport C permits the same item when the sky is black.
Yet the TSA website clearly states that the item is permitted.
As examples, take Nexus card, or the non-removal of certain medical devices. And here it is even more unclear - for instance the statement from at least one TSA poster than 1 gallon size bags are permitted at the checkpoint.
I am referring to the items which TSA lists on their website as permitted, and what they list as process.
Sometimes it feels as if the rules are made up as they go along. Airport A permits something if the sky is grey, there is an R in the month, and the screener is in the first hour of their shift. Airport B permits the same item only in months containing a A, the sky is blue, and the screener had chicken for lunch. Airport C permits the same item when the sky is black.
Yet the TSA website clearly states that the item is permitted.
As examples, take Nexus card, or the non-removal of certain medical devices. And here it is even more unclear - for instance the statement from at least one TSA poster than 1 gallon size bags are permitted at the checkpoint.
#53
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,425
I think I make a difference at my airport. I can't account for how things are done at other airports.
I think it's pretty arrogant of you to tell me how I can be more productive in your eyes. You could be more productive if you quit your whining and become more active in the community. How's that? Why don't you run for office and fix it from the White House on down?
Sharing ideas is one thing, and I'm open to a good discussion and exchange of different views. However, when you think you have the right to tell me how I can live my life better, I have a tendency to tell you to pound sand. So let's agree to keep the personal stuff out of it and just stick to sharing ideas.
I think it's pretty arrogant of you to tell me how I can be more productive in your eyes. You could be more productive if you quit your whining and become more active in the community. How's that? Why don't you run for office and fix it from the White House on down?
Sharing ideas is one thing, and I'm open to a good discussion and exchange of different views. However, when you think you have the right to tell me how I can live my life better, I have a tendency to tell you to pound sand. So let's agree to keep the personal stuff out of it and just stick to sharing ideas.
#54
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,389
Let me clarify that I am not referring to 'consistent inconsistency' to fool the bad people.... (I think that is an excuse to cover poor training or reinforcement, frankly)
I am referring to the items which TSA lists on their website as permitted, and what they list as process.
Sometimes it feels as if the rules are made up as they go along. Airport A permits something if the sky is grey, there is an R in the month, and the screener is in the first hour of their shift. Airport B permits the same item only in months containing a A, the sky is blue, and the screener had chicken for lunch. Airport C permits the same item when the sky is black.
Yet the TSA website clearly states that the item is permitted.
As examples, take Nexus card, or the non-removal of certain medical devices. And here it is even more unclear - for instance the statement from at least one TSA poster than 1 gallon size bags are permitted at the checkpoint.
I am referring to the items which TSA lists on their website as permitted, and what they list as process.
Sometimes it feels as if the rules are made up as they go along. Airport A permits something if the sky is grey, there is an R in the month, and the screener is in the first hour of their shift. Airport B permits the same item only in months containing a A, the sky is blue, and the screener had chicken for lunch. Airport C permits the same item when the sky is black.
Yet the TSA website clearly states that the item is permitted.
As examples, take Nexus card, or the non-removal of certain medical devices. And here it is even more unclear - for instance the statement from at least one TSA poster than 1 gallon size bags are permitted at the checkpoint.
#55
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,389
I'd like to set that aside and focus on ideas. Believe it or not, I use some of the comments I read in here for training purposes to help improve how TSOs interact with passengers. But it's hard sometimes to get past all of the silly rhetoric that some of these comments are laced with.
#56
Moderator: Smoking Lounge; FlyerTalk Evangelist



Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: SFO
Programs: Lifetime (for now) Gold MM, HH Gold, Giving Tootsie Pops to UA employees, & a retired hockey goalie
Posts: 29,078
*and changed to accommodate situations as they arise (i.e.: when orthopedic shoes became an issue) and properly transmitted to all stations and all employees.
#57
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: RDU
Programs: OnePass
Posts: 772
#58
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,389
But that in itself is the rub as that is not done. You know it and I know it. Rules are interpreted differently and/or made up and without a simple interpretation of the rules (i.e.: if a, then yes or if b, then no*), the current screening process will never work successfully. Imho, the only way they system can work effectively is to have the McDonalds approach where everything is the same from at all locations.
*and changed to accommodate situations as they arise (i.e.: when orthopedic shoes became an issue) and properly transmitted to all stations and all employees.
*and changed to accommodate situations as they arise (i.e.: when orthopedic shoes became an issue) and properly transmitted to all stations and all employees.
As for prohibited items, yes, should be pretty black and white. On the plus side, you have to admit that this is far better than when we originally had to prohibit scissors, small screwdrivers, cigar cutters and other similar items. Of course, we took a step backwards when we decided to prohibit liquids, gels and aerosols.
#60
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 120
Here is your problem... groping children, giving people cancer, sexually assaulting peoples wives, and using sickening coercive psychology B.S. to force people to endure this crap... it IS PERSONAL.
I take it very personally. My kids aren't flying until the TSA, in its current idiocy with incompetent management is dissolved.
Get over this idea that doing this crap to people is somehow "not personal". It IS personal and utterly pointless and at an enormous cost to taxpayers.
The only thing I want to see happen Bart... is for you to lose your job. Its going to happen to. Napolitano and Pistole, their days are numbered as are the days of the colossal waste of taxpayer theft and PERSONAL criminal activity you people are conducting.
That is my honest opinion man. Every day you go to work and use coervice tactics to subject innocent people to radiation and molestation is a day you are a constitution violating criminal. Don't you ever forget that.

