Community
Wiki Posts
Search

Liquids: The Truth please...

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Mar 27, 2011 | 9:35 am
  #16  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
20 Countries Visited
500k
All eyes on you!
15 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 30,990
Originally Posted by gsoltso
A few points :

1) Yes they can see the small LAG in the bags on xray.
2) The rules have not changed, regardless of your personal experiences (take what you will from that!)
3) 3.4oz is the largest acceptable size for personal use LAGs that are not medicinal (medicnal items can be larger and are supposed to be removed from the carry-on and declared upon entry at the checkpoint).

Hopefully that will give you a bit more information, as the rules have not changed (with regards to the LAG regulations), I am not certain what the situation is with your specific experiences.
Why should someone else's experience be any different than mine when TSA operates from one set of rules?
Boggie Dog is offline  
Old Mar 27, 2011 | 12:12 pm
  #17  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 438
Originally Posted by Himeno
There's been a few times when I've gone through a checkpoint and they asked where my liquids bag was. When I said that I didn't have one, they seemed shocked and pulled my bag looking for the non existant liquids.
Well that's pretty silly! Did it not occur to them that you might have checked your liquids? That's what I did on my flights last week (thankfully I was flying Southwest, so no charge). I figured I had enough problems with trying to get through the checkpoint with my backbrace - I didn't want to have to deal with possibly having the wrong sized zip-lock baggie.

Originally Posted by gsoltso
A few points :

1) Yes they can see the small LAG in the bags on xray.
2) The rules have not changed, regardless of your personal experiences (take what you will from that!)
3) 3.4oz is the largest acceptable size for personal use LAGs that are not medicinal (medicnal items can be larger and are supposed to be removed from the carry-on and declared upon entry at the checkpoint).

Hopefully that will give you a bit more information, as the rules have not changed (with regards to the LAG regulations), I am not certain what the situation is with your specific experiences.
What I take from that is what we've been saying all along - that TSOs do whatever they feel like, regardless of what the so-called "rules" are. That we can't count on having a consistent experience with respect to how we are screened, because TSOs choose what rules they want to follow, and what they don't. That many TSOs don't even bother to learn the rules (as evidenced by the TSO who told me in OKC that I had to put my back brace through the x-ray, in spite of the fact that it's a medical device that, according to the TSA website, does not have to be removed). That we passengers cannot be expected to know what to do at any TSA checkpoint, because every TSO does whatever he or she feels like - whether it's ignoring the rules that actually are in place, or even making up rules that are NOT (e.g. demanding to know how much money someone is carrying, and then considering themselves duty-bound to initiate a criminal investigation when the passenger refuses to tell them).
LeeAnne is offline  
Old Mar 27, 2011 | 1:17 pm
  #18  
20 Countries Visited
30 Countries Visited
40 Nights
15 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Greensboro
Programs: TSA
Posts: 2,496
Originally Posted by FriendlySkies
If it was such a big deal, then the clerks would be doing something about those of us that don't believe in this crap.

As far as medicinal, why can't I just claim that my 5.5oz toothpaste is medicinal?
I have seen some toothpastes that have prescriptions, and they have been allowed.
gsoltso is offline  
Old Mar 27, 2011 | 1:21 pm
  #19  
20 Countries Visited
30 Countries Visited
40 Nights
15 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Greensboro
Programs: TSA
Posts: 2,496
Originally Posted by Boggie Dog
Why should someone else's experience be any different than mine when TSA operates from one set of rules?
I have no explanation for that. I dislike the disparity in policy as much as you do. The SOP is written and in place for a reason.

Originally Posted by LeeAnne
Well that's pretty silly! Did it not occur to them that you might have checked your liquids? That's what I did on my flights last week (thankfully I was flying Southwest, so no charge). I figured I had enough problems with trying to get through the checkpoint with my backbrace - I didn't want to have to deal with possibly having the wrong sized zip-lock baggie.



What I take from that is what we've been saying all along - that TSOs do whatever they feel like, regardless of what the so-called "rules" are. That we can't count on having a consistent experience with respect to how we are screened, because TSOs choose what rules they want to follow, and what they don't. That many TSOs don't even bother to learn the rules (as evidenced by the TSO who told me in OKC that I had to put my back brace through the x-ray, in spite of the fact that it's a medical device that, according to the TSA website, does not have to be removed). That we passengers cannot be expected to know what to do at any TSA checkpoint, because every TSO does whatever he or she feels like - whether it's ignoring the rules that actually are in place, or even making up rules that are NOT (e.g. demanding to know how much money someone is carrying, and then considering themselves duty-bound to initiate a criminal investigation when the passenger refuses to tell them).
I dislike the inconsistency as much as you do. Your experience at LAX should be almost a carbon copy of what happens at GSO, but that does not always seem to be the case (of course, the experience at LAX may be a bit more harried due to the much greater passenger flow). I wish I had some way to rectify the inconsistencies.
gsoltso is offline  
Old Mar 27, 2011 | 1:45 pm
  #20  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 41
Originally Posted by gsoltso
I have no explanation for that. I dislike the disparity in policy as much as you do. The SOP is written and in place for a reason.



I dislike the inconsistency as much as you do. Your experience at LAX should be almost a carbon copy of what happens at GSO, but that does not always seem to be the case (of course, the experience at LAX may be a bit more harried due to the much greater passenger flow). I wish I had some way to rectify the inconsistencies.
My hat is off to you. You understand that everything should be the same across the board in all airports with no deviation in the way policy is enforced. Unlike it is now. I guess we should call what is going on "The McDonalds Problem". McDonalds can have the same level of service and the same quality of food anywhere in the USA. Why can't the TSA have the same level of security screening across the USA, regardless of WTMD or NoS? That is what I think most people here can't get around. And operating outside of the standard operating procedure at anytime should be a immediate dismissal from the TSA.
Mister Dystopia is offline  
Old Mar 27, 2011 | 1:47 pm
  #21  
Original Poster
Suspended
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: USA
Programs: UA/CO(1K-PLT), AA(PLT), QR, EK, Marriott(PLT), Hilton(DMND)
Posts: 9,538
Originally Posted by FriendlySkies
If it was such a big deal, then the clerks would be doing something about those of us that don't believe in this crap.

As far as medicinal, why can't I just claim that my 5.5oz toothpaste is medicinal?
Friendlyskies, , about 3 years ago, when this liquids ban was really beginning to get on my bits, I had valid prescriptions and dispensed prescription labels on the following items:

1) Branded protein shakes (8 fl.oz)
2) Branded High protein yogurts (4-8 fl.oz)
3) Fuze beverages (18.5 fl.oz)
4) Branded Contact Lens solution (16 fl.oz)

I only liked one particular brand of each of these items and therefore I considered it to be medically critical that I be allowed to carry what I needed in sufficient quantities for travel to my final destination and for two days in a hotel in case my checked baggage was lost).

I stopped doing this after a few months because I rather quickly became satiated with having broken the will of several of the DFW TSA supervisors with this foolproof mechanism of getting what I needed through the checkpoint. However, my medical needs also changed (actually, my dietary habits changed for the worse).

If you happen to have a good relationship with a physician and a pharmacist, you can pretty much take whatever you like through the checkpoint for your critical medical/nutritional needs. The TSA works on the principle that you will get tired of going to extraordinary lengths to get what you need through the checkpoint so if one starts using this methodology, it is critical that you stick with it and that you take every opportunity to rub it in their face to demonstrate that you are now in charge. I think my catch-phrase was "Who's the boss now, boss?" which they hated, and which I personally didn't like doing too much either - but it is a necessary element in breaking their will.

Last edited by PhlyingRPh; Mar 27, 2011 at 1:55 pm
PhlyingRPh is offline  
Old Mar 27, 2011 | 1:54 pm
  #22  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: FrostByte Falls, Mn
Programs: Holiday Inn Plat NW gold AA gold
Posts: 2,157
Originally Posted by Mister Dystopia
My hat is off to you. You understand that everything should be the same across the board in all airports with no deviation in the way policy is enforced. Unlike it is now. I guess we should call what is going on "The McDonalds Problem". McDonalds can have the same level of service and the same quality of food anywhere in the USA. Why can't the TSA have the same level of security screening across the USA, regardless of WTMD or NoS? That is what I think most people here can't get around. And operating outside of the standard operating procedure at anytime should be a immediate dismissal from the TSA.
^^^^

The oft cited reason for the widely different processes is that all airports are different, the local option for managers to have stricter local requirements, it keeps the terrorists guessing, and misinterpretation of the SOP in the first place. Might be some more reasons, but think that the general rule is that TSA upper level management lacks the ability to recognize their agency was given a chance to do right by the travelers and failed miserably to correct the wrongs early in TSA's existence making it substantially harder now to fix what is broken.
AngryMiller is offline  
Old Mar 27, 2011 | 2:03 pm
  #23  
Original Poster
Suspended
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: USA
Programs: UA/CO(1K-PLT), AA(PLT), QR, EK, Marriott(PLT), Hilton(DMND)
Posts: 9,538
Originally Posted by AngryMiller
^^^^

The oft cited reason for the widely different processes is that all airports are different, the local option for managers to have stricter local requirements, it keeps the terrorists guessing, and misinterpretation of the SOP in the first place. Might be some more reasons, but think that the general rule is that TSA upper level management lacks the ability to recognize their agency was given a chance to do right by the travelers and failed miserably to correct the wrongs early in TSA's existence making it substantially harder now to fix what is broken.
I think it's often simpler than that. A number of the TSO's just like jacking with people who they can detect have a low opinion of the TSA. That's mostly people who fly multiple times a week. Consequently, they see us roll up to the checkpoint, organize ourselves in 10 seconds flat and send our stuff in meticulous order through the xray, negotiate the WTMD without pausing or making eye contact with the dork motioning us to wait, and repacking our things at the other end quickly and again without providing an ounce of recognition to the dork behind the conveyor. I find that at this point, one or other of the SPOTters will have approached either of the two dorks, whisper something in their ear and the next thing you know, someone wants to swab your laptop or challenge you about an item in the bin. So, while this McDonalds effect might be a part of it, there's a lot of war psychology at play too. Thankfully, they are very predictable, so if we, en masse decided to wear them down emotionally, it would not be a particularly difficult task. Just my 2 pesos - perhaps unnecessarily belligerent, but then again maybe not belligerent enough, given the sorry state of affairs we find ourselves in.
PhlyingRPh is offline  
Old Mar 27, 2011 | 3:29 pm
  #24  
20 Countries Visited
30 Countries Visited
40 Nights
15 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Greensboro
Programs: TSA
Posts: 2,496
Originally Posted by Mister Dystopia
My hat is off to you. You understand that everything should be the same across the board in all airports with no deviation in the way policy is enforced. Unlike it is now. I guess we should call what is going on "The McDonalds Problem". McDonalds can have the same level of service and the same quality of food anywhere in the USA. Why can't the TSA have the same level of security screening across the USA, regardless of WTMD or NoS? That is what I think most people here can't get around. And operating outside of the standard operating procedure at anytime should be a immediate dismissal from the TSA.
It has been my loudest complaint since coming to work here. Small or minor variances I can chalk up to differences in culture or regional differences, but the process written in the SOP is fairly easy to understand and follow, so the it should be basically the same for all passengers coming in. There are some here that will post the "attitude" factor comes into play, and in some instances, I have no doubt that it does - that is not acceptable. Even with a passenger that is being an a$$, if you are professional, do what you are supposed to and finish the job efficiently (and again, professionally!) - there would be only one a$$ in the checkpoint and everyone would know which one that would be.
gsoltso is offline  
Old Mar 27, 2011 | 3:38 pm
  #25  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,004
Originally Posted by Boggie Dog
Why should someone else's experience be any different than mine when TSA operates from one set of rules?
Well, you have at least 44,000 different interpretations of the rules, or more if some of the TSOs are bipolar....
IslandBased is offline  
Old Mar 27, 2011 | 3:50 pm
  #26  
10 Countries Visited
20 Countries Visited
30 Countries Visited
15 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: IL
Programs: A3 Gold, UA Silver, DL Silver, Hertz PC, Avis Pref+
Posts: 1,141
For a few years now I have stopped bothering with the bag thing. I always carry contacts lens solution, toothpaste, hand lotion etc somewhere in my hand luggage (flight-sized, though - less than 100ml each) yet have not once had any problem with this. Not even a question.

OTOH, I remember a documentary I saw on NatGeo a couple of years back. A chemist showed how easy it was to mix two 100ml bottles of (colourless, odourless) chemicals together to create a bomb capable of blowing a hole in an aircraft fuselage (they demonstrated on an old aircraft hull). Makes you wonder just a little bit about the futility of the liquids ban...
dand99 is offline  
Old Mar 27, 2011 | 3:51 pm
  #27  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 41
Originally Posted by gsoltso
It has been my loudest complaint since coming to work here. Small or minor variances I can chalk up to differences in culture or regional differences, but the process written in the SOP is fairly easy to understand and follow, so the it should be basically the same for all passengers coming in. There are some here that will post the "attitude" factor comes into play, and in some instances, I have no doubt that it does - that is not acceptable. Even with a passenger that is being an a$$, if you are professional, do what you are supposed to and finish the job efficiently (and again, professionally!) - there would be only one a$$ in the checkpoint and everyone would know which one that would be.
I can't disagree with anything you wrote. Everywhere I have worked, there has been a employee rulebook that one must adhere to, to keep their job. Obviously you have one of those as well and by your tone, take very seriously. If only we had more like you.
Mister Dystopia is offline  
Old Mar 27, 2011 | 4:46 pm
  #28  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
20 Countries Visited
500k
All eyes on you!
15 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 30,990
Originally Posted by gsoltso
It has been my loudest complaint since coming to work here. Small or minor variances I can chalk up to differences in culture or regional differences, but the process written in the SOP is fairly easy to understand and follow, so the it should be basically the same for all passengers coming in. There are some here that will post the "attitude" factor comes into play, and in some instances, I have no doubt that it does - that is not acceptable. Even with a passenger that is being an a$$, if you are professional, do what you are supposed to and finish the job efficiently (and again, professionally!) - there would be only one a$$ in the checkpoint and everyone would know which one that would be.
So the SOP is modified for regional variations?
Boggie Dog is offline  
Old Mar 27, 2011 | 4:51 pm
  #29  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
20 Countries Visited
500k
All eyes on you!
15 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 30,990
I think the truth about liquids regardless of what TSA say is this.

Single component liquid explosives are to sensitive to safety carry.

Two component (or multiple) liquid explosives require controlled lab conditions to mix and make a working explosive plus time and is not likely to be completed in the lavatory of an airplane.

TSA's focus on liquids is a total waste of time and manpower.
Boggie Dog is offline  
Old Mar 27, 2011 | 5:03 pm
  #30  
20 Countries Visited
30 Countries Visited
40 Nights
15 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Greensboro
Programs: TSA
Posts: 2,496
Originally Posted by Boggie Dog
So the SOP is modified for regional variations?
Not in any institutionalized way. What one person in Washington state reads and takes from something may be different (and in some cases vastly different) than what someone in say, Florida or North Carolina reads and takes away, and vice versa. That is what I mean by cultural or regional differences.
gsoltso is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.