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-   -   Replace the TSA... With what???? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues/1142529-replace-tsa-what.html)

N965VJ Nov 1, 2010 3:16 pm

What to do with the TSA short term-

1. Full accountability of TSA employees, with levels of discipline up to and including termination.

2. Initiate a focus on customer service training for screening clerks, instead of barking and asking “Do you want to fly today?” The fact that the TSA has publicly stated that customer service is not a priority in its Engage! training is appalling.

3. End the War on Liquids. The exemptions make it pointless, and even if there was such a Magic Liquid™ that could be used to create a bomb airside without laboratory conditions if you just had enough of it, just send ten guys through the checkpoint with their Kippie Bags and combine it airside.

4. End the Shoe Carnival. The X-Ray machine cannot detect explosives, period.

5. Eliminate the gate screenings. The fact that this is being done in MCI, where each gate area pretty much has its own checkpoint to start with, is proof that this is nothing more than security theatre and workfare.

6. Get rid of the No Fly List. There’s no effective means of redress or oversight how the list is managed. If the people on these lists are so dangerous, arrest them.

7. Stop the ID checks. The TSA has no need to know who I am or where I’m flying. This is nothing more than revenue protection on behalf of the airlines. The thought that I must “present my papers” to travel within the border of my own country is disgusting.

8. Stop using the checkpoint as a dragnet. College kids with a fake IDs, illegal aliens, or some common criminal wanted on a drug charge somewhere are not a threat to commercial aviation. We have other government agencies tasked for this.

9. Kill LASP dead in its tracks. There is no reason whatsoever the TSA should encroach on General Aviation. Personal Liberties — For the first time, the TSA’s regulatory activities would be extended to personal GA aircraft, historic and vintage aircraft, and operators, passengers, and pilots flying for personal and business use. As such, the LASP is a radical departure from anything the TSA has enacted to date. It would, in effect, require governmental review and authority before you could operate your own personal vehicle.

10. End the mission creep. No more TSA appearances at sporting events, bus and train stations, or highways. Let the real law enforcement professionals tasked with these venues handle things without interference from the TSA.

11. The junk science SPOT program gets the boot.

12. Stop the use and deployment of Nude-O-Scopes. They don't see into body cavities or detect explosives, are an intrusion into privacy and needlessly add to cumulative lifetime radiation doses. All that is needed is WTMD, x-ray, and ETD/ETP.

13. The wearing of metal “LEO style” badges is stopped immediately, and replaced with the screening clerk’s name and identification number that is plainly visible.

14. Eliminate theatrics like the TSA Honor Guard. There is no need for screening clerks to dress up in silly costumes and parade around.

15. Stop any consideration of having screening clerks armed with firearms, or having any LEO powers.

What to do with the TSA long term-

The TSA should become a part of the DOT. Actual screening should be done by private contractors with oversight by the DOT or FAA. Funny how we never heard the constant stories of mistreatment and harassment of PAX, organized rings of theft and general thuggery when this was being done by private sector firms.

FriendlySkies Nov 1, 2010 3:50 pm


Originally Posted by halls120 (Post 15050720)
Kip Hawley is a lying SOB. He knows damn well that TSA wouldn't have prevented 9/11.

My simple TSA deconstruction - eliminate the position of federalized TSO. Transfer the responsibility for airport security back to the Department of Transportation. DOT/FAA creates the position of Airport Security Director at every US airport, and gives this individual a small, professional staff to oversee the contractors who will be hired to perform the actual screening under rules promulgated by DOT/FAA, not the brown shirts in DHS.

You should watch this video..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2HyAV-SEsg

PhoenixRev Nov 1, 2010 5:50 pm


Originally Posted by FriendlySkies (Post 15055000)
You should watch this video..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2HyAV-SEsg

Go to the 10:40 mark.

Quote from Kip Hawley: "The machines are not capable of storing images."

Liar.

PTravel Nov 1, 2010 6:03 pm


Originally Posted by oenophilist (Post 15045986)
I've heard here and on other forums that the TSA should be eliminated. But what I don't understand is, with what do we replace it? Are people suggesting that giving airline security over to private firms is the right approach? In my mind, this would be an unmitigated disaster that would set us back by a decade. Reform the TSA? Absolutely! But replace it? I just don't get the argument.

What argument is there AGAINST having a federal agency that is responsible for airline security, versus putting it into the hands of private companies?

I would prefer either the military, the FBI or local police forces -- I want either trained LEOs or trained soldiers, i.e. professionals whose job it is spotting bad guys. China uses the military and they are efficient, professional and polite. Other nations use, I think, national police (we don't have that, of course).

What I don't want are clerks on power trips.

Note, too, that what I really want is actual security, balanced against risk. What we have now is strictly a dog-and-pony show. When I want theater I go to Broadway. When I want security, I put professionals in charge.

UALpremier Nov 1, 2010 6:20 pm

I'm not sure some aspects of the TSA need to be replaced --that is, they should just be eliminated. Airline executives in the UK are starting to grumble as well. As this quote from Ryanair CEO Michael O’Leary shows.

“I’ll never cease to be amazed at the extent to which bureaucrats can invent more procedures that do nothing for safety except give people the impression that they’ve done something,” O’Leary said in an interview. “We’ve got to stop this nonsense of taking people’s shoes and water off them.”

He's right on the nose.

tom911 Nov 1, 2010 6:25 pm


Originally Posted by PTravel (Post 15055862)
I would prefer either the military, the FBI or local police forces -- I want either trained LEOs or trained soldiers, i.e. professionals whose job it is spotting bad guys.

How many of us would be willing to pay another $20-30 a ticket for that? There's already an uproar about 90% retirement for police officers in California, let alone many of them with $100,000+ salaries. How would you fund such an initiative without more ticket taxes? It would probably take a year or more for local law enforcement to recruit, hire and train to be able to spare personnel to run checkpoints (unless you want to use existing personnel and pay overtime).

PTravel Nov 1, 2010 6:27 pm


Originally Posted by tom911 (Post 15056009)
How many of us would be willing to pay another $20-30 a ticket for that? There's already an uproar about 90% retirement for police officers in California, let alone many of them with $100,000+ salaries. How would you fund such an initiative without more ticket taxes?

I wouldn't mind paying $20-30 extra a ticket for real security. However, I doubt that it would be that expensive. TSA is one of the most wasteful agencies I've ever seen.

tom911 Nov 1, 2010 6:34 pm

San Jose has been in the news a lot that last few months because of layoffs there. The yearly cost of a San Jose police officer is $180,000 when you add in the benefits. Does anyone have a comparable figure for what the total cost is for one TSA screener?
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?sec...bay&id=7526202

Boggie Dog Nov 1, 2010 7:57 pm


Originally Posted by PTravel (Post 15055862)
I would prefer either the military, the FBI or local police forces -- I want either trained LEOs or trained soldiers, i.e. professionals whose job it is spotting bad guys. China uses the military and they are efficient, professional and polite. Other nations use, I think, national police (we don't have that, of course).

What I don't want are clerks on power trips.

Note, too, that what I really want is actual security, balanced against risk. What we have now is strictly a dog-and-pony show. When I want theater I go to Broadway. When I want security, I put professionals in charge.

The military is primarily trained to kill and destroy.

They expect orders to be followed without question.

Do you really want that in our airports?

eyecue Nov 1, 2010 7:59 pm


Originally Posted by oenophilist (Post 15045986)
I've heard here and on other forums that the TSA should be eliminated. But what I don't understand is, with what do we replace it? Are people suggesting that giving airline security over to private firms is the right approach? In my mind, this would be an unmitigated disaster that would set us back by a decade. Reform the TSA? Absolutely! But replace it? I just don't get the argument.

What argument is there AGAINST having a federal agency that is responsible for airline security, versus putting it into the hands of private companies?

Like most of the serious other countries:
The United States Military.

PTravel Nov 1, 2010 8:05 pm


Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 15056594)
The military is primarily trained to kill and destroy.

They expect orders to be followed without question.

Do you really want that in our airports?

I disagree with your characterization of the military.

N965VJ Nov 1, 2010 9:40 pm


Originally Posted by PTravel (Post 15055862)
I would prefer either the military, the FBI or local police forces -- I want either trained LEOs or trained soldiers, i.e. professionals whose job it is spotting bad guys.


Originally Posted by eyecue (Post 15056606)
Like most of the serious other countries:
The United States Military.

It does not take the military or professional law enforcement to keep weapons, explosives, or incendiaries off commercial aircraft. Nothing more than screening clerks that have that single focus, along with metal detectors, x-rayed bags, and explosive trace detection is needed.

oenophilist Nov 2, 2010 5:41 am

I'll reply to some of the other posts when I get a free moment, but wanted to quickly reply to yours...


Originally Posted by txrus (Post 15046354)
Bolding above mine. Why? Why would this be an 'unmitigated disaster'? How would we be set back a decade?

You seem to be implying that they only thing that has prevented a repeat of the hijackings in Sept '01 is the TSA? If that is the case I'll ask you the same question that has been asked, repeatedly, of our self-proclaimed TSAers on this board-what is the 1 policy or procedure, instituted soley by the TSA, that had it been in effect on 9/10/10 would have prevented the hijackings that took place the next day? Just 1 & your answer can't include anything done by the airlines or the FAA.

I think that you are asking the wrong question. It is not the policies nor procedures that drive my belief that the TSA is necessary: it is the accountability. Private companies are accountable only to shareholder wealth.

A quick story that puts it into perspective: when I was at University and worked as an RA, I knew all the campus security, and I knew which ones were good and which ones were either lazy or incompetent. After graduating and taking a job that caused me to travel alot, I used to go through airport security, and on more than one occasion I encounter the lazy or incompetent ones had become airport security with a private firm doing the security checks. And I recall just how inconsistent and poor the security checks were. So when I say that it would be an unmitigated disaster, I am not speaking of the policies or procedures, but rather the accountability of those doing the screening. I would much rather have an agency that has long-term employees performing security than private companies with revolving doors of employees, answering to shareholders above all else.

Spiff Nov 2, 2010 6:35 am


Originally Posted by oenophilist (Post 15058540)

A quick story that puts it into perspective: when I was at University and worked as an RA, I knew all the campus security, and I knew which ones were good and which ones were either lazy or incompetent. After graduating and taking a job that caused me to travel alot, I used to go through airport security, and on more than one occasion I encounter the lazy or incompetent ones had become airport security with a private firm doing the security checks. And I recall just how inconsistent and poor the security checks were. So when I say that it would be an unmitigated disaster, I am not speaking of the policies or procedures, but rather the accountability of those doing the screening. I would much rather have an agency that has long-term employees performing security than private companies with revolving doors of employees, answering to shareholders above all else.

Turnover for TSA is the same as it was for private contractors. This disgusting, un-American agency fails every test, including the smell test.

Boggie Dog Nov 2, 2010 6:52 am


Originally Posted by PTravel (Post 15056646)
I disagree with your characterization of the military.


What do you think the primary mission of the military is then?


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