I've heard here and on other forums that the TSA should be eliminated. But what I don't understand is, with what do we replace it? Are people suggesting that giving airline security over to private firms is the right approach? In my mind, this would be an unmitigated disaster that would set us back by a decade. Reform the TSA? Absolutely! But replace it? I just don't get the argument.

What argument is there AGAINST having a federal agency that is responsible for airline security, versus putting it into the hands of private companies?

I've said this before, and I'll say it again. Lock down (physically rearchitect if need be) the cockpit so during flight no one gets in, no one gets out. Toilets and rest areas are included in this secure area. There must be no physical way to travel between cockpit and cabin while in flight (i.e. pilots enter via separate exterior door). It's awfully hard to take over a plane if the cockpit can't be compromised. This requires training of pilots to understand that preventative losses are acceptable losses. Second, each plane should have a dual-key activated defensive system to knock out people in the main cabin (via oxygen decreasing or some chemical agent or some other solution) which requires both pilot and the relevant authority on the ground (military? FBI?) to activate.

In the long run it will be cheaper than the security theatre of late, and more effective.

Put simply, there are two:

(1) The same sorts of arguments that people give against the government performing any function that can be done by private companies, most recently the issues discussed about the so-called "public option" in the health insurance debate.

(2) Constitutional questions that arise when an agent of the government is searching people or saying whether people can fly or not.

At this point, I'm thinking DoD will do a better job then DHS.

Bolding above mine. Why? Why would this be an 'unmitigated disaster'? How would we be set back a decade?

You seem to be implying that they only thing that has prevented a repeat of the hijackings in Sept '01 is the TSA? If that is the case I'll ask you the same question that has been asked, repeatedly, of our self-proclaimed TSAers on this board-what is the 1 policy or procedure, instituted soley by the TSA, that had it been in effect on 9/10/10 would have prevented the hijackings that took place the next day? Just 1 & your answer can't include anything done by the airlines or the FAA.

Don't worry if you can't answer that-the self-proclaimed TSAers haven't been able to, either.

Do you know why? That's because nothing the TSA has done would have prevented the hijackings.

Not. One. Thing.

The hijackings suceeded because 4 pilots, following company policy at the time, cooperated w/the hijackers, allowing the hijackers to not only gain entry to the flight deck, but also control of the planes. Airline policy now states the door remains locked no matter what is going on in the cabin & the plane lands as soon as possible.

THAT is what will prevent future hijackings, not the TSA's War on Water, Shoe Carnivals, or the Nude-O-Scopes.

What most of us have advocated for is a return to sanity (w/all due respect to Messers Stewart & Colbert) when it comes to aviation security. Keep the federal oversight, but lose the theater. There are already airports that have contracted out checkpoint security & dumped the TSA (SFO comes to mind). Expand that model but w/real accountability for both the gov't agency providing the oversight as well as the front-line contractors.

+1

We have a known shipper program that puts who knows what into the belly of the plane, yet a known traveler gets strip-searched. I am an f'n known shipper yet I am subjected to pat-downs on the same plane my cargo rides uninspected.

TSA is a secret agenda. It is not what you think.

Given that the contracted security like 'Team SFO' are doing exactly what TSA tells them to, they may as well still be TSA.

Roll back checkpoint screening to pre 9/11 standards and set up.
Increase cargo screening.
Maintain current cockpit/airline measures.
Remove TSA.
Oversight by FAA.

The useful TSOs will be retained by contract security companies. The useless ones will either go back to the fast food counters, the unemployment line or be sent to prison.

Amen and amen!

The "known shipper" program is akin to locking your home's windows at night and then leaving the front door swinging open in the breeze with a sign in the yard that says, "C'mon in boys! The silver's in the first drawer on your right!"

It is pure insanity.

Rose

During true high alert times, simply put a visible armed LEO on every flight... or at every gate.

When the high alert has passed, have them patrol the area similar to how they would at a stadium, mall or other area where people congregate.

Eliminate the baggage screening charades unless there is a credible threat and the LEO's have a lead as to what kind of form it may take.

If you haven't noticed, over the last 5 years or so, almost all of the TSA initiatives have been focused on explosives. The Great Pointy Object Search is a thing of the past. Nail clippers and corkscrews are now allowed.

Puffers, swabbing, laptops out, the shoe carnival, the liquid restrictions, and the full body scanners are all designed to prevent someone blowing up the plane, not designed to take over the plane. Because as others noted here, the combination of the reinforced cockpit door and the post-911 policy change (no pilot will ever willingly give up control) mean that the cockpits are already secure enough.

As much as I dislike the TSA, it's not because of the front line. While there are plenty of anecdotes on this board about TSO power trips, for the most part, the folks manning the checkpoint do usually act in a professional manner. For me (and I'd guess most here), what bothers us about TSA is the policies that they set. The aforementioned shoe carnival, liquid rules, the pat downs, the millions spent on the wrong technologies, all the "theater" designed to make the public feel safe, rather than to make us actually safe.

So, yeah, we could replace the TSA screeners with private contractors as they used to be, and it might not make us any less or more safe. But even if it were private screeners, the rules and methods used would still be set by the government. If we abolish the TSA, then I assume it would be another federal agency. After all, the denizens of this board demand consistency.

What needs to change is how and why the rules get defined.

You haven't gone through security in SFO or MCI lately?

1) Government says we can't trust private contractors to do airport security
2) Government creates TSA so that we can have "high paid, federal workers" because we can trust them to do the job right
3) Billions of dollars spent to create, hire, train, etc. those "high paid, federal workers"
4) TSA goes out and contracts with private companies to provide security
5) TSA says its ok for them to use contractors because they will "supervise" them

Why couldn't we have just created an oversigt board/group/whatever to start with and saved billions of dollars?

Simple.

There was nothing the TSA does today that would have prevented 9/11.

The TSA did not mandate the end to the horrible policy of giving in to hijackers nor did they require that cockpit doors be reinforced. Those two things would have prevented 9/11.

Everything else the TSA does - including groping your 80-year-old grandmother's crotch to ensure she isn't an Al Qaeda operative - is security theater.

+100

Even though Kip Hawley liked to say that if TSA had been in place on 9/11, they would have stopped the threat

Hmmm I'm not an anti government type but at least a private company would be subject to the will of the courts.

We could of course replace the TSA with the I can has cheeseburger kittens, save money, be just as effective and give travelers something cute to look at.

OP: as others have pointed out, your entire premise is faulty and flawed. Destroying the TSA, jailing its scumbag "leaders", and bringing back Argenbright and Globe will not be a disaster; it will be a victory for civil liberties and the people of this nation and our guests. Destroying TSA will be a blow to Al-Qaeda, for they will have lost their biggest ally in the war on freedom.

The TSA "leaders" are scumbags who have caused an unmitigated disaster and set back civil liberties by 6 decades: to cold war Eastern Europe. Let's correct that disaster ASAP.

The federal government should have absolutely no say in airport or aircraft security. There is no good reason for the federal government not to be punted off all airport property and all aircraft.