Best AIT example
#46
Suspended
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,953
We have already heard of individuals being scanned multiple times because the voyeur couldn't resolve an "issue."
#47
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Colorado
Programs: TSA
Posts: 2,745
To answer your other statement, you only get one shot at it. No dosimeters, those damn things are expensive.
A guarantee that is worthless. You are not even in the USA. I think you are confusing the MMW with the Backscattter.
Last edited by Kiwi Flyer; Oct 24, 2010 at 9:48 pm Reason: merge consecutive posts
#49
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,657
And herein lies the problem.
I don't know Wimpie; I don't know you. I don't know which of you to trust. You say you work for TSA; I have no way to verify your claims. I have no idea who Wimpie's sources are, so I can't verify his claims either.
Of course, TSA's official communications channels have been less than clear (and sometimes contradictory) about the issue ... even if one only considers official statements, it's hard to know what to believe on this issue.
So you'll forgive me if I'm skeptical when TSA --- or anyone who works for TSA --- says "trust us on this".
I don't know Wimpie; I don't know you. I don't know which of you to trust. You say you work for TSA; I have no way to verify your claims. I have no idea who Wimpie's sources are, so I can't verify his claims either.
Of course, TSA's official communications channels have been less than clear (and sometimes contradictory) about the issue ... even if one only considers official statements, it's hard to know what to believe on this issue.
So you'll forgive me if I'm skeptical when TSA --- or anyone who works for TSA --- says "trust us on this".
#51
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 733
[QUOTE=DIFIN;14999065]let me ask you, how much x-ray or radiological training have you received?QUOTE]
Please, enlighten us.
More expensive than the technology? I know for a fact that's BS. Please, eyecue, enlighten us. How much does a dosimeter cost?
So, basically what you are telling us, is that ensuring your health and well-being in face of long-term contact with machines that have not been shown to be safe for human use over a long period of time is irrelevant to your employer?
Please, enlighten us.
More expensive than the technology? I know for a fact that's BS. Please, eyecue, enlighten us. How much does a dosimeter cost?
So, basically what you are telling us, is that ensuring your health and well-being in face of long-term contact with machines that have not been shown to be safe for human use over a long period of time is irrelevant to your employer?
#52
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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OMG I cant believe you.
1. The site is the proof. The page is on the TSA portion of the makers site.
2. You know and it is well posted that there is no way to capture any images that TSA sees of actual passengers. I operate one of those machines and when the program is running there is nothing that you can do with the computer except use the manufacturers software that is on the computer. You cannot cut and paste, you cannot access the drives, you cannot do ANYTHING except look at the pictures and move to the next picture.
3. The only thing that is not posted that is different are the GUI controls for image and those are manufacturer proprietary.
1. The site is the proof. The page is on the TSA portion of the makers site.
2. You know and it is well posted that there is no way to capture any images that TSA sees of actual passengers. I operate one of those machines and when the program is running there is nothing that you can do with the computer except use the manufacturers software that is on the computer. You cannot cut and paste, you cannot access the drives, you cannot do ANYTHING except look at the pictures and move to the next picture.
3. The only thing that is not posted that is different are the GUI controls for image and those are manufacturer proprietary.
Bob at the TSA Blog has stated that the reason the TSA will not release the actual size and resolution of the Nude-O-Scope images was because they were "proprietary". If these had actually been released, Bob would have been jumping up and down saying "See, I told you so!"
He has also chosen to ignore my repeated questions about future capability of the machines.
Originally Posted by Bob at the TSA Blog, Feb 3 2010
These pictures were provided to TSA by the vendor. I have never claimed they are the exact size and resolution that our officers see. I have provided video examples showing what our officers see. I have requested the resolution and size and was told it was proprietary information that I could not release. I'm still looking into being able to get that info for you, but I can't promise anything.
The storing and exporting of images only takes place in a laboratory or testing environment while in "test mode." Machines in the airports will not be placed in test mode and there is nobody at the airports who have the capability of placing it in that mode. This mode is not even accessible by the people who perform maintenance on the machines.
[/crickets]
#54

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,964
eyecue, do you have me on your ignore list by any chance? I really honestly do want an answer to the question that many of us have asked you, on several threads, but you have overlooked it every time I have posted it.
Lest I be accused of harassment I will not ask it again at the moment, but I know that many posters are curious as to the answer.
Again, thank you in advance for your response.
Lest I be accused of harassment I will not ask it again at the moment, but I know that many posters are curious as to the answer.
Again, thank you in advance for your response.
#55
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 30,966
What universities did you attend and what are your degrees in?
Or did TSA provide all the training in this area that you have received?
#56
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 11
To the original post:
1.) This is the same stock image that TSA has released eons ago. It seems to show a woman imaged with millimeter wave technology. Backscatter x-ray images are far sharper and show more detail.
2.) It is EXTREMELY worrisome that TSA has only released less than a handful of pictures taken BY TSA THEMSELVES! To my knowledge there are less than 10 images available altogether.
3.) Definitely, critics of these machines (or artists) would be willing to donate a picture of themselves if TSA would let them publish a full-resolution image. Why is TSA not willing to do this? Does TSA think it might hurt their cause?
4.) The few low-res pictures that TSA has published all show how clearly these machines can identify dangerous items LIKE KNIVES AND GUNS. Yet it is exactly THESE items that these machines are NOT meant to identify. (A metal detector can do this better and faster). Talk about misleading the public.
Thanks for your attention.
1.) This is the same stock image that TSA has released eons ago. It seems to show a woman imaged with millimeter wave technology. Backscatter x-ray images are far sharper and show more detail.
2.) It is EXTREMELY worrisome that TSA has only released less than a handful of pictures taken BY TSA THEMSELVES! To my knowledge there are less than 10 images available altogether.
3.) Definitely, critics of these machines (or artists) would be willing to donate a picture of themselves if TSA would let them publish a full-resolution image. Why is TSA not willing to do this? Does TSA think it might hurt their cause?
4.) The few low-res pictures that TSA has published all show how clearly these machines can identify dangerous items LIKE KNIVES AND GUNS. Yet it is exactly THESE items that these machines are NOT meant to identify. (A metal detector can do this better and faster). Talk about misleading the public.
Thanks for your attention.
#57
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Join Date: Jan 2005
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Getting OT here, but I always capture in NEF (Nikon's version of RAW) and JPEG. If the JPEG looks good enough for casual work (family casual pics), I'll print. If I need to work the picture, the NEF gets pulled into CS4.
Personally, I would be very surprised if the RAW feed was not what is shown to the TSO on either WBI system.
Personally, I would be very surprised if the RAW feed was not what is shown to the TSO on either WBI system.
To some people, 60 minutes is a lot of time. If you have a 3 hours layover, don't you feel like you have a lot of time to kill?

What universities did you attend and what are your degrees in?
Or did TSA provide all the training in this area that you have received?
Or did TSA provide all the training in this area that you have received?
Last edited by Kiwi Flyer; Oct 24, 2010 at 9:47 pm Reason: merge consecutive posts
#58
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: FLL & PIT
Programs: Marriott Platinum for Life.
Posts: 1,235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wimpie
I have it from very reliable sources that the resolution of the L3 MMW scanner is about 10X better than the published image, and the artifacts are pretty much gone. TSA will not allow L3 to publish a higher resolution image, as they have an agenda, primary of which is not to scare the kettles.
All cases where the press and others are allowed in the resolution room are simulations, specifically designed for the press and the kettles.
My guy says "you would be shocked by the current state of the art". The images you see are 5-7 years old, and after more than 50 software and hardware upgrades, and $10M in R&D, they approach the Rapiscan in resolution (about 0.1mm).
The Rapiscan resolution and image processing has also improved, but not as fast as the L3. Of course TSA is hiding the images, but some will leak eventually, and that will create quite a furor.
NO eyecue you're full of BS.
I teach digital imaging in medicine.........DIGITAL IMAGING has come a long way in the 18 years I've been using, working and teaching it.
One of the first things that radiologists started saying to me years ago when I was teaching them was........I'm seeing more now than I ever have.
That was 18 years ago........so just imagine how far we've advanced in these years to improve upon that digital image.
And I know how to manipulate that digital image to show detail or to remove it. So don't even think you're going to continue to say that this is BS that the image that is produced on any AIT unit be it MMW or backscatter can't be improved upon.
Continue to post your BS will only continue to show you don't know what you're talking about.
.
Originally Posted by Wimpie
I have it from very reliable sources that the resolution of the L3 MMW scanner is about 10X better than the published image, and the artifacts are pretty much gone. TSA will not allow L3 to publish a higher resolution image, as they have an agenda, primary of which is not to scare the kettles.
All cases where the press and others are allowed in the resolution room are simulations, specifically designed for the press and the kettles.
My guy says "you would be shocked by the current state of the art". The images you see are 5-7 years old, and after more than 50 software and hardware upgrades, and $10M in R&D, they approach the Rapiscan in resolution (about 0.1mm).
The Rapiscan resolution and image processing has also improved, but not as fast as the L3. Of course TSA is hiding the images, but some will leak eventually, and that will create quite a furor.
NO eyecue you're full of BS.
I teach digital imaging in medicine.........DIGITAL IMAGING has come a long way in the 18 years I've been using, working and teaching it.
One of the first things that radiologists started saying to me years ago when I was teaching them was........I'm seeing more now than I ever have.
That was 18 years ago........so just imagine how far we've advanced in these years to improve upon that digital image.
And I know how to manipulate that digital image to show detail or to remove it. So don't even think you're going to continue to say that this is BS that the image that is produced on any AIT unit be it MMW or backscatter can't be improved upon.
Continue to post your BS will only continue to show you don't know what you're talking about.
.
#59
Join Date: May 2010
Location: FLL - Nice and Warm
Programs: TSA Disparager Gold
Posts: 1,025
The few low-res pictures that TSA has published all show how clearly these machines can identify dangerous items LIKE KNIVES AND GUNS. Yet it is exactly THESE items that these machines are NOT meant to identify. (A metal detector can do this better and faster). Talk about misleading the public.
#60
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: SE Asia
Posts: 647


