AIT information
Oct 25, 2010 | 11:22 am
#46
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 733
MMW
http://www.tsa.gov/assets/pdf/mmw_info.pdf
Backscatter
http://www.tsa.gov/assets/pdf/mmw_info.pdf
The backscatter one does, indeed mention, in bold, that the scanner is optional. (n.b. I have not personally encountered the backscatter. Hence I have not seen the sign ORDOfcr describes.)
However, the poor design and placement of these signs makes it so that understanding that point is not a given for the majority of travelers who don't even know what they are stepping into.
Of course, they don't really describe the alternative as we've heard it relayed here and elsewhere. And that is also a problem.
Let me add my thanks to ORDOfcr for his/her professional and reasoned response. We'd get a lot further if everyone adopted this posting style.
Oct 25, 2010 | 11:37 am
#47
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 30,990
I would like to thank you for your professional interactions with us. It's a welcome breath of fresh air compared to some of the others I have interacted with.
I have a question, maybe you can't answer it, but I'll ask it anyway:
You stated what goes on at ORD. Thats well and good. But why is it that the signage for these machines is NOT standardized across the country?
There should be 1 sign that is standard for every NoS: It should state:
1. What the machine is
2. What it does
3. That it is optional to go through the machine, and what the alternative is.
And it should be in simple language, with pertinent parts bolded (such as the opt out)
There should also be signs available (not necessary posted, but available upon request) in the following languages:
-Spanish
-Italian
-French
-Russian
-Polish
-Chinese
-Japanese
-Arabic
This should cover the majority of travelers.
Why can't the TSA do that? How hard would it be? Hell, it would probably save money because once there's a standard sign, you wouldn't have to worry about airports doing their own thing.
I have a question, maybe you can't answer it, but I'll ask it anyway:
You stated what goes on at ORD. Thats well and good. But why is it that the signage for these machines is NOT standardized across the country?
There should be 1 sign that is standard for every NoS: It should state:
1. What the machine is
2. What it does
3. That it is optional to go through the machine, and what the alternative is.
And it should be in simple language, with pertinent parts bolded (such as the opt out)
There should also be signs available (not necessary posted, but available upon request) in the following languages:
-Spanish
-Italian
-French
-Russian
-Polish
-Chinese
-Japanese
-Arabic
This should cover the majority of travelers.
Why can't the TSA do that? How hard would it be? Hell, it would probably save money because once there's a standard sign, you wouldn't have to worry about airports doing their own thing.
Waiting until your right at the machine to read an 8x11 sign on copy paper is not adequate.
Oct 25, 2010 | 12:26 pm
#48
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: RDU
Programs: OnePass
Posts: 772
As a data point, these signs do technically have the information you mention. Looking around for something else, I stumbled across the following links, which are the signs that I've seen, poorly placed, in the airports that I have transited.
MMW
http://www.tsa.gov/assets/pdf/mmw_info.pdf
Backscatter
http://www.tsa.gov/assets/pdf/mmw_info.pdf
The backscatter one does, indeed mention, in bold, that the scanner is optional. (n.b. I have not personally encountered the backscatter. Hence I have not seen the sign ORDOfcr describes.)
However, the poor design and placement of these signs makes it so that understanding that point is not a given for the majority of travelers who don't even know what they are stepping into.
Of course, they don't really describe the alternative as we've heard it relayed here and elsewhere. And that is also a problem.
Let me add my thanks to ORDOfcr for his/her professional and reasoned response. We'd get a lot further if everyone adopted this posting style.
MMW
http://www.tsa.gov/assets/pdf/mmw_info.pdf
Backscatter
http://www.tsa.gov/assets/pdf/mmw_info.pdf
The backscatter one does, indeed mention, in bold, that the scanner is optional. (n.b. I have not personally encountered the backscatter. Hence I have not seen the sign ORDOfcr describes.)
However, the poor design and placement of these signs makes it so that understanding that point is not a given for the majority of travelers who don't even know what they are stepping into.
Of course, they don't really describe the alternative as we've heard it relayed here and elsewhere. And that is also a problem.
Let me add my thanks to ORDOfcr for his/her professional and reasoned response. We'd get a lot further if everyone adopted this posting style.
The current mish-mosh of whatever the STSO can think to include isn't getting it done.
EDIT: Not sure if this was intentional or not, but your backscatter and MMW posters aren't different - they're both the MMW one.
Oct 25, 2010 | 12:37 pm
#50
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Somewhere near BWI
Programs: DL DM, HH Dia, SPG Gold, MR Plat, Hertz PC
Posts: 3,654
I firmly believe that is the point. It allows TSA to state that passengers are voluntarily complying now, and gives them an out politically where TSA can say that they opted to or not to use the technology on a case by case basis.
Oct 25, 2010 | 12:42 pm
#51
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,964
I agree with you, although it doesn't surprise me to see a poorly worded statement from TSA. As someone noted upthread, travellers speak many languages, and it irks me to read 'official' signage which is poorly composed or grammatically incorrect. (And I now open myself up to a critique of my English skills)
Oct 25, 2010 | 1:24 pm
#52
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Marriott or Hilton hot tub with a big drink <glub> Beverage: To-Go Bag DYKWIA:SSSS /rolleyes ☈ Date Night:Costco
Programs: Sea Shell Lounge Platinum, TSA Pre✓ Refusnik Diamond, PWP Gold, FT subset of the subset
Posts: 12,523
Looking at the URL, it's interesting to note that the document is called "backscatter_legal.pdf"
Oct 25, 2010 | 6:57 pm
#53
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Sydney (for now), GVA (only in my memories)
Programs: QF Lifetime Silver (big whoop)
Posts: 9,335
I will be posting pictures. These signs are not airport specific except for the different technologies. These signs are mandatory to be placed outside of any of the WBI machines. The signage is a requirement by the WBI SOP. If you ever encounter a WBI without the required signage please by all means bring this point up to a screening supervisor.
I don't think anyone doubts that the signs exist - that is, that TSA has designed, printed and distributed these signs. We all understand, too, that TSA HQ has stated that it's mandatory to place the signs outside the WBI.
The disconnect is between what TSA HQ says is policy, and the reality at the dozens of airports (soon to be hundreds) using WBI. There are many, many reports of the signs being in the wrong place, being obscured by TSA staff or lines of passengers, being AFTER the WBI, facing the wrong way, being printed on 8 1/2 by 11" paper with small font, or not being there at all.
There's a whole thread started by Blogdad Bob from PV where FTers can report locations with missing (or misplaced) signs. In one case (link), BB contacted the airport and they put the signs back in the right place. (For the next day, at least.)
So while the SOP may require signs, individual checkpoints fail to put them out, and it's up to frequent flyers to let Bob know so they can fix it. Not a great system.
Oct 26, 2010 | 6:06 pm
#54
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 549
Here's the backscatter Nude-O-Scope. I think barbell just made a typo.
Looking at the URL, it's interesting to note that the document is called "backscatter_legal.pdf"
Looking at the URL, it's interesting to note that the document is called "backscatter_legal.pdf"
Oct 26, 2010 | 6:49 pm
#56
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: North of DFW
Programs: AA PLT, HH Gold, TSA Disparager Gold, going for Platnium
Posts: 1,535
Oct 27, 2010 | 11:49 am
#57
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chicago
Programs: DHS/TSA
Posts: 100
I would like to thank you for your professional interactions with us. It's a welcome breath of fresh air compared to some of the others I have interacted with.
I have a question, maybe you can't answer it, but I'll ask it anyway:
You stated what goes on at ORD. Thats well and good. But why is it that the signage for these machines is NOT standardized across the country?
There should be 1 sign that is standard for every NoS: It should state:
1. What the machine is
2. What it does
3. That it is optional to go through the machine, and what the alternative is.
And it should be in simple language, with pertinent parts bolded (such as the opt out)
There should also be signs available (not necessary posted, but available upon request) in the following languages:
-Spanish
-Italian
-French
-Russian
-Polish
-Chinese
-Japanese
-Arabic
This should cover the majority of travelers.
Why can't the TSA do that? How hard would it be? Hell, it would probably save money because once there's a standard sign, you wouldn't have to worry about airports doing their own thing.
I have a question, maybe you can't answer it, but I'll ask it anyway:
You stated what goes on at ORD. Thats well and good. But why is it that the signage for these machines is NOT standardized across the country?
There should be 1 sign that is standard for every NoS: It should state:
1. What the machine is
2. What it does
3. That it is optional to go through the machine, and what the alternative is.
And it should be in simple language, with pertinent parts bolded (such as the opt out)
There should also be signs available (not necessary posted, but available upon request) in the following languages:
-Spanish
-Italian
-French
-Russian
-Polish
-Chinese
-Japanese
-Arabic
This should cover the majority of travelers.
Why can't the TSA do that? How hard would it be? Hell, it would probably save money because once there's a standard sign, you wouldn't have to worry about airports doing their own thing.
These are the signs that are required to be posted in front of any AIT machines. These signs are not airport specific and are exact copies of attachments in the SOP in the AIT SOP.
Oct 27, 2010 | 11:51 am
#58
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: RDU
Programs: OnePass
Posts: 772
I'm saying that there is no consistency between airports. Some may have them, others don't.
Every airport should have those signs in the same place, and the TSO's should be cognizant of them.
*sigh*
Oct 27, 2010 | 11:56 am
#59
Suspended
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,953