FlyerTalk Forums

FlyerTalk Forums (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/index.php)
-   Practical Travel Safety and Security Issues (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues-686/)
-   -   Suspicious behavior (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues/1045205-suspicious-behavior.html)

Gynob001 Jan 28, 2010 12:11 pm

Suspicious behavior
 
What constitutes a suspicious behavior?
1. Leaving package/luggage unattended.
2. Carrying any prohibited items such as firearms/knife etc.
3. Use of threatening language or gestures towards crew/officials.
4. Vandalizing property in order to atrract/dicert attention.
5. Attempting to gain access to restricted areas.
6. Taking pictures/videos of restricted areas or general public/traffic


I am not sure how speaking in foreign language, wearing specific article of clothing, use of restroom, taking pictures of family in the airport, looking outside plane window to see "sights, etc could constitute suspicious behavior.

jkhuggins Jan 28, 2010 12:17 pm

The chief problem, as Schneier points out, is that many people confuse "suspicious" with "unusual". "Unusual" is an easier word to define: anything that doesn't normally happen within the scope of the life experience of the observer.

Usually, things that are "suspicious" are "unusual". However, things that are unusual aren't inherently suspicious. Being "suspicious" requires the ability to assess risk and threat: a property which people are notoriously bad at, unless specifically trained. And most of us (myself included) aren't trained in that regard.

N231LA Jan 28, 2010 12:40 pm

Apparently being brown, wearing a turban, speaking in a foreign language ....

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...his-plane.html

...are all very suspicious behaviors on UA...

Yaatri Jan 28, 2010 1:17 pm


Originally Posted by N231LA (Post 13275701)
Apparently being brown, wearing a turban, speaking in a foreign language ....

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...his-plane.html

...are all very suspicious behaviors on UA...

BINGO. Passengers thought to behaving suspiciously because they were speaking in a foreign language, wearing a turban or some such thing, going to the lav, or looking out the window and pointing at the Statue of Liberty are always brown skinned, never white or black. When it comes to travelling by air, this group is unfairly penalised. Yet TSA claims there is no profiling. WHat do they take us for?

tsadude1 Jan 28, 2010 1:27 pm


Originally Posted by Yaatri (Post 13275986)
BINGO. Passengers thought to behaving suspiciously because they were speaking in a foreign language, wearing a turban or some such thing, going to the lav, or looking out the window and pointing at the Statue of Liberty are always brown skinned, never white or black. When it comes to travelling by air, this group is unfairly penalised. Yet TSA claims there is no profiling. WHat do they take us for?

Stay home and dont subject yourself to it then. ;)

alanR Jan 28, 2010 1:34 pm


Originally Posted by Yaatri (Post 13275986)
BINGO. Passengers thought to behaving suspiciously because they were speaking in a foreign language, wearing a turban or some such thing, going to the lav, or looking out the window and pointing at the Statue of Liberty are always brown skinned, never white or black. When it comes to travelling by air, this group is unfairly penalised. Yet TSA claims there is no profiling. WHat do they take us for?

The only profiling is occurring in the mind of the passenger who thinks being brown is suspicious behaviour.

DillMan Jan 28, 2010 1:46 pm


Originally Posted by tsadude1 (Post 13276057)
Stay home and dont subject yourself to it then. ;)

What an awesome response. Blacks have a hard time getting a fair shake when they are climbing the corporate ladder. Would you recommend they just stay home as well?

Ironically I'm former conservative-cum-libertarian who would argue against most forms of affirmative action and most race-based policies, however, I find this "war-on-brown" we find ourselves in to be not only sickening but also something that is destroying what it means to be an American. If someone like me has this strong of a reaction, I can only wonder how my friends further left feel.

A truly disgusting comment.

Mats Jan 28, 2010 2:03 pm

Read Malcolm Gladwell's article, "Criminal Profiling Made Easy."

Loosely paraphrased:
According to US Customs, suspicious activity included:

- Traveling with or without baggage
- Traveling in the front, middle, or aft section of the plane
- Traveling alone or with other passengers
- Checking in early, on time, or late
- Being the first to get off the plane, the last to get off the plane, or somewhere in the middle

I actually support some forms of profiling and behavioral detection since our "one size fits all" screening methods are cumbersome, expensive, insensitive, non-specific, humiliating, over-the-top, etc.

But detecting unusual or specific behavior is not an exact science. For this reason, I don't think that detection is the issue, it's how you react.

Some examples.

Let's say that you're a US Airways Express/Chatauqua Airlines crewmember. If a passenger is acting strangely, like praying and wearing tefillin, you might find this suspicious. If you've never seen it before--yes--it's unusual. But you react by being polite, friendly, approachable, and asking "what is that? I've never seen that before." You don't divert the plane.

Let's say that you're a Continental Airlines flight attendant. A passenger pauses to look out the window of an exit door. If you're a bit paranoid, you might find this suspicious. You should react by being polite, friendly, approachable, and saying, "Hi. Are you just looking out the window? Can I get you anything... here I'll bring it to your seat." You don't scream across the cabin "Get away from the door."

In other words, these crewmembers were observing perceived unusual or suspicious behavior. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. But their reaction was completely inappropriate.

Yaatri Jan 28, 2010 2:05 pm


Originally Posted by tsadude1 (Post 13276057)
Stay home and dont subject yourself to it then. ;)

What a despicable and shameful reply. Typical TSA garbage. Is this the training TSA gives? Shame on a TSA employee you for having an attitude like this.
It's a shame that we have people with this attitude living in this country. :mad:
We'll all be metter off if suc people were sent off to G'tmo, ;)
What makes you think I am brown? Do you think only a brown man could have empathy for another brown man? That's an attitude of an ignorant person.
In any case, who are you to tell me to stay home. :mad:

N965VJ Jan 28, 2010 2:34 pm


Originally Posted by tsadude1 (Post 13276057)
Stay home and dont subject yourself to it then. ;)

:rolleyes:

More and more former visitors to our country are spending their tourism money elsewhere now because of that kind of attitude.

pmocek Jan 28, 2010 3:16 pm


Originally Posted by Gynob001 (Post 13275475)
What constitutes a suspicious behavior?

For the purpose of this discussion, how do you define "suspicious"? It's difficult to answer your question with knowing what you meant.


Originally Posted by Gynob001 (Post 13275475)
1. Leaving package/luggage unattended.

That probably indicates someone was forgetful. In a minuscule portion of cases -- none, maybe -- it indicates that someone sneaked a bomb past TSA's checkpoint and left it sitting there.

Discouraged, but to my knowledge, legal.


Originally Posted by Gynob001 (Post 13275475)
2. Carrying any prohibited items such as firearms/knife etc.

The knife probably indicates forgetfulness, but might have been brought by someone who didn't want to give up his pocket knife and just gambled that no one would notice. The gun? That seems more likely to indicate trouble.

Possibly unlawful. Does anyone know?


Originally Posted by Gynob001 (Post 13275475)
3. Use of threatening language or gestures towards crew/officials.

Unless it rises to the level of assault (i.e., if someone feels he or she is actually at risk of harm as a result), it's just rude. Doesn't indicate wrongdoing, no reason to investigate.


Originally Posted by Gynob001 (Post 13275475)
4. Vandalizing property in order to atrract/dicert attention.

That requires some guesswork. If we leave off the speculation about motive, it's unlawful and unethical, but not, it seems, reason to investigate for reasons other than righting the wrong by prosecuting the vandal.


Originally Posted by Gynob001 (Post 13275475)
5. Attempting to gain access to restricted areas.

Without even knowing what you meant by "suspicious", and assuming that it's not accidental (i.e., the door is clearly marked as someplace that the public are not allowed to go), this seems like the most suspicious of the actions you enumerated. However, it's probably just someone who wants to see what's there, but probably worth checking into a bit beyond just saying, "Beat it."

Maybe unlawful, but I suspect it's nothing more than trespassing.


Originally Posted by Gynob001 (Post 13275475)
6. Taking pictures/videos of restricted areas or general public/traffic

Taking pictures of anything that can be seen from publicly-accessible areas of the airport is no more cause for concern than looking at that thing is. TSA places no restrictions on such (other maybe than photographing their computer monitors. Blogger Bob Burns says that's prohibited, but declined to cite any law stating such). It seems that most airports have no such restrictions, either. Neither of these facts means you're not likely to end up detained and searched or tossed in jail as a result.

Only in the minds of the paranoid or authoritarian is photography in public areas of an airport "suspicious behavior".

N965VJ Jan 28, 2010 3:50 pm


Originally Posted by pmocek (Post 13276855)
TSA places no such restrictions (other maybe than photographing their computer monitors. Blogger Bob Burns says that's prohibited, but declined to cite any law stating such).

The TSA is still promoting the idea that photography is a "suspicious activity". TSA pamphlet on school bus security:

<SNIP>

Look for people who:
* Appear to be conducting surveillance
(using video cameras, taking photos, etc.)

jkhuggins Jan 28, 2010 4:19 pm


Originally Posted by pmocek (Post 13276855)
The knife probably indicates forgetfulness, but might have been brought by someone who didn't want to give up his pocket knife and just gambled that no one would notice. The gun? That seems more likely to indicate trouble.

Possibly unlawful. Does anyone know?

It probably depends on which airport you're talking about.

For example, DTW is governed by the Wayne County Airport Authority Airport Ordinance, which is implemented under the authority given to DTW by Michigan's Aeronautics Code, Michigan Compiled Laws, section 259.1 et seq.

Therein we find, in part:

11.8 No Concealed Weapon or Explosive. Except as provided in Section 11.8 (e), a person shall not:

a. Carry on the Airport a deadly or dangerous weapon, concealed or otherwise, on or about his or her person or in property accessible to them prior to entering a Sterile Area or Secured Area ...

d. For the purpose of this Subsection 11.8, a weapon shall include, but not be limited to, a firearm, a pellet pistol or rifle, a knife, cutting instrument, blackjack, bow and arrow, sling shot, metal knuckles or martial arts weapons ...

g. Violation of this Subsection is a misdemeanor.
So ... at DTW, it appears that carrying a gun in the airport is unlawful. (Unless you're a deputized LEO, of course ... and there are subsections in 11.8 that outline the expected exceptions.)

But that's just one airport. Your mileage may vary.

AngryMiller Jan 28, 2010 4:46 pm


Originally Posted by tsadude1 (Post 13276057)
Stay home and dont subject yourself to it then. ;)

Thank you for validating our already dim view of your organization.

^^^:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

N231LA Jan 28, 2010 5:19 pm


Originally Posted by tsadude1 (Post 13276057)
Stay home and dont subject yourself to it then. ;)

You stay home and watch Oprah while we subject ourselves to an intelligence based airport security system without you.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:27 am.


This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.