Can a pilot ask you to leave his plane?
Jan 27, 2010, 3:04 pm
#1
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Can a pilot ask you to leave his plane?
This happened to me on a recent flight from ORD to SMF. I got myself an upgrade on flt 515 and boarded the flight with other first class passengers. I was in seat 5D (of a 757) which I chose while doing OLCI. There was a group of 4 travelling together and 3 of them were sitting in 5 A, B and C and one was sitting in 1A.
Once I settled my bags in the overhead bin and sat on my seat, my neighbour asked me if I could switch the seat with their guy in 1A. I politely refused saying that if it was any other seat I would have but I don't like the bulkhead seat on 4+ hour flight and all was OK. He laughed and joked about all flyers having their favorite seats....
As is my ritual, since there was still time for the flight, I decided to call my wife on my cell phone. Now, I am an Indian (from Punjab) and wear a turban and was talking in my native languauge with my wife. While I was talking I saw that the guy in 5B walked up to the FA and started talking. I did not bother about until they started looking in my direction and pointing towards me. I thought they were complaining about me not giving up my seat for their buddy and may be they are trying to make a 3 way move asking somebody else to move to 1A and I move to another seat (non bulkhead). Anyway, I did not bother to think about it further and continued with my discussion with my wife. After a while I saw the captain came out from the flight deck, talked with the FA and the passenger from 5B and all of them walked out to the jet bridge. the captain gave me glance while walking past me and I could feel something was not right. After about 5 or so minutes the FA walked over and asked me if I could come with her outside to the podium. She asked me if I could get my bags as well and thats when I told my wife (who was still on phone with me ) to hang up and I asked the FA why I was asked to remove my bags. The FA said that captain wants to have a chat with me but its up to me if I want to take bags with me and I told her I don't want to lose out the overhead bin space and will walk with her to the captain.
We came out of the jet bridge and I could see the the Y passengers were still boarding and giving me looks as if I had done something wrong.
After reaching the podium outside, I saw the captain was standing with the GA and a TSA man with sniffer dogs. The captain first thanked me for being cooperative, and then said that there are passengers on the flight that do not feel comfortable me riding with them and that they had reported suspicious behaviour on my part. The captain also acknowledged that I am a 1k flyer and that he was required to report this matter to TSA and hence the TSA officer....
The TSA officer then asked me questions about the call I was making (to my wife) and wanted to see my cell phone. I handed over the cell phone to him and he fiddled with it for a few minutes looked at my calls dialed and received calls asked me about the number I dialed (my wife's cell number) and took a note of that number.
The captain then asked me since there are more than one passengers that are uncomfortable with me flying on the plane, if I would be willing to get off the plane and board another flight. He said we will arrange for you to stay in Chicago overnight and book you in first flight to SMF the next day. Being a true flyertalker, the first thought that came to my mind was will you give me a free ticket (VDB) and will I still get my upgrade on the flight
But then I realized this is more serious than I thought. I told him that I don't want to do this unless I am forced to but told them that I would cooperate with whatever thay want to do. At this point the TSA agent asked one of the GA to go get my luggage from inside. i explained to her what my bags looked like and she went inside. All this while I acted calmly thinking that I have nothing to hide.
After a few more nervous minutes my bags came out and the sniffer dog started to sniff them. By this time another TSA agent had arrived and he started opening my bags (both carry on and laptop). They asked me if I had any checked bags too and I said "no".
By then the boarding had almost completed and the captain wanted to go back in the plane. He once again said that I will be taking the flight next day and wished me good luck (for what ?). By then I was starting to get angry and asked the pilot why the people who are uncomfortable with me not leave the plane instead of me. He looked at the TSA agent who had just finished checking my bags and the TSA agent gave him the ^ and said something like "he is good to go". The captain then went back in the plane and minutes later I saw the 3 guys in 5 A,B and C come out with their bags. The GA then asked the TSA agents if it was ok for me to borad the flight and they said yes. They thanked me for me cooperation said sorry for the incovinience . I also politely said thanks to them and told them that they were doing their job and if they don't do their job we all are at risk. The GA then asked me to follow her into the jet bridge and as I am walking with her, she says sorry to and mentioned to me that one of the 3 guys that de-boarded was a GS and that they were all on paid F. She also mumbled that now she will have to deal with them and their refund.
Once I got back in the plane I noticed the guy in seat 1A is still sitting there but the seat next to me is now empty. They had already assigned the seats 5A and B to someone else from Y and soon after they were occupied. The plane left 5 minutes late and we all arrived at our destination safely (10 minutes early).
All through the flight I kept thinking about the incident that happened and weather my reaction to get them off was excessive. The more I think about it, the more I feel I did the right thing but after I narrated the incident to my wife, she was upset and asked me to report the incident to UA and ask for compensation for public humiliation....
Anyway, I don't think I felt humiliated and don't think they owe me anything more than an apology for the incovenience, but I did feel the captain should have asked the other passengers to leave before asking me. Can a pilot ask a passenger to leave a plane if other passenger/s ask him to ?
I wanted to share the story with FT community and ask for your opinion of what happened and how should I have handled it.
Once I settled my bags in the overhead bin and sat on my seat, my neighbour asked me if I could switch the seat with their guy in 1A. I politely refused saying that if it was any other seat I would have but I don't like the bulkhead seat on 4+ hour flight and all was OK. He laughed and joked about all flyers having their favorite seats....
As is my ritual, since there was still time for the flight, I decided to call my wife on my cell phone. Now, I am an Indian (from Punjab) and wear a turban and was talking in my native languauge with my wife. While I was talking I saw that the guy in 5B walked up to the FA and started talking. I did not bother about until they started looking in my direction and pointing towards me. I thought they were complaining about me not giving up my seat for their buddy and may be they are trying to make a 3 way move asking somebody else to move to 1A and I move to another seat (non bulkhead). Anyway, I did not bother to think about it further and continued with my discussion with my wife. After a while I saw the captain came out from the flight deck, talked with the FA and the passenger from 5B and all of them walked out to the jet bridge. the captain gave me glance while walking past me and I could feel something was not right. After about 5 or so minutes the FA walked over and asked me if I could come with her outside to the podium. She asked me if I could get my bags as well and thats when I told my wife (who was still on phone with me ) to hang up and I asked the FA why I was asked to remove my bags. The FA said that captain wants to have a chat with me but its up to me if I want to take bags with me and I told her I don't want to lose out the overhead bin space and will walk with her to the captain.
We came out of the jet bridge and I could see the the Y passengers were still boarding and giving me looks as if I had done something wrong.
After reaching the podium outside, I saw the captain was standing with the GA and a TSA man with sniffer dogs. The captain first thanked me for being cooperative, and then said that there are passengers on the flight that do not feel comfortable me riding with them and that they had reported suspicious behaviour on my part. The captain also acknowledged that I am a 1k flyer and that he was required to report this matter to TSA and hence the TSA officer....
The TSA officer then asked me questions about the call I was making (to my wife) and wanted to see my cell phone. I handed over the cell phone to him and he fiddled with it for a few minutes looked at my calls dialed and received calls asked me about the number I dialed (my wife's cell number) and took a note of that number.
The captain then asked me since there are more than one passengers that are uncomfortable with me flying on the plane, if I would be willing to get off the plane and board another flight. He said we will arrange for you to stay in Chicago overnight and book you in first flight to SMF the next day. Being a true flyertalker, the first thought that came to my mind was will you give me a free ticket (VDB) and will I still get my upgrade on the flight
But then I realized this is more serious than I thought. I told him that I don't want to do this unless I am forced to but told them that I would cooperate with whatever thay want to do. At this point the TSA agent asked one of the GA to go get my luggage from inside. i explained to her what my bags looked like and she went inside. All this while I acted calmly thinking that I have nothing to hide.
After a few more nervous minutes my bags came out and the sniffer dog started to sniff them. By this time another TSA agent had arrived and he started opening my bags (both carry on and laptop). They asked me if I had any checked bags too and I said "no".
By then the boarding had almost completed and the captain wanted to go back in the plane. He once again said that I will be taking the flight next day and wished me good luck (for what ?). By then I was starting to get angry and asked the pilot why the people who are uncomfortable with me not leave the plane instead of me. He looked at the TSA agent who had just finished checking my bags and the TSA agent gave him the ^ and said something like "he is good to go". The captain then went back in the plane and minutes later I saw the 3 guys in 5 A,B and C come out with their bags. The GA then asked the TSA agents if it was ok for me to borad the flight and they said yes. They thanked me for me cooperation said sorry for the incovinience . I also politely said thanks to them and told them that they were doing their job and if they don't do their job we all are at risk. The GA then asked me to follow her into the jet bridge and as I am walking with her, she says sorry to and mentioned to me that one of the 3 guys that de-boarded was a GS and that they were all on paid F. She also mumbled that now she will have to deal with them and their refund.
Once I got back in the plane I noticed the guy in seat 1A is still sitting there but the seat next to me is now empty. They had already assigned the seats 5A and B to someone else from Y and soon after they were occupied. The plane left 5 minutes late and we all arrived at our destination safely (10 minutes early).
All through the flight I kept thinking about the incident that happened and weather my reaction to get them off was excessive. The more I think about it, the more I feel I did the right thing but after I narrated the incident to my wife, she was upset and asked me to report the incident to UA and ask for compensation for public humiliation....
Anyway, I don't think I felt humiliated and don't think they owe me anything more than an apology for the incovenience, but I did feel the captain should have asked the other passengers to leave before asking me. Can a pilot ask a passenger to leave a plane if other passenger/s ask him to ?
I wanted to share the story with FT community and ask for your opinion of what happened and how should I have handled it.
Jan 27, 2010, 3:11 pm
#2
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Wow, crazy story.
I can't believe what some people will try if they aren't able to swap seats with someone.
Good job to the pilot for kicking off those jokers. ^
I can't believe what some people will try if they aren't able to swap seats with someone.
Good job to the pilot for kicking off those jokers. ^
Jan 27, 2010, 3:12 pm
#3
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Wow. 
That was pretty terrible of UA all the way around. Is this all it takes, for someone to accuse another pax of behaving "strangely" even if all that means is speaking in a foreign language?!?
I'm angry for you!!
I do applaud you for keeping your cool, though. ^
About your question, while I'm sure others who know more will chime in, I'll bet the pilot has the discretion to ask pretty much anyone to leave his/her plane. I can't imagine it's simply an issue of other pax asking that it be done, though.
Seriously, they should be showering you with SWUs...
That was pretty terrible of UA all the way around. Is this all it takes, for someone to accuse another pax of behaving "strangely" even if all that means is speaking in a foreign language?!?
I'm angry for you!!
I do applaud you for keeping your cool, though. ^
About your question, while I'm sure others who know more will chime in, I'll bet the pilot has the discretion to ask pretty much anyone to leave his/her plane. I can't imagine it's simply an issue of other pax asking that it be done, though.
Seriously, they should be showering you with SWUs...
Jan 27, 2010, 3:13 pm
#4
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Jan 27, 2010, 3:13 pm
#5
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Jan 27, 2010, 3:16 pm
#6
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Jan 27, 2010, 3:16 pm
#8
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A pilot can indeed have a passenger removed from the plane.
That said, this was handled very poorly by UA IMHO. So the captain went by some other pax's word you were "suspicious" because you were on a cell phone?!
If that's "suspicious" then nearly everyone who's ever flown should be removed from a flight. Sounds like the GS paid-F pax wanted your seat and tried some despicable hardball to try to get it; they should IMHO lose their GS credentials over that, and even be banned from future flights on UA if that is indeed what happened.
I'm curious, but obviously this is a nosy question (and thus don't answer if you're uncomfortable doing so): are you of an non-Caucasian race? US is infamous for overreacting to pax-reported "suspicious behavior" by non-white passengers (recently diverting a plane over an orthodox Jew's prayers!), but I hadn't heard much along those lines with regards to UA--but there's always a first time.
Also, the TSA wasn't exactly making you or anyone safer with their behavior, job or not, but that's fodder for another forum.
That said, this was handled very poorly by UA IMHO. So the captain went by some other pax's word you were "suspicious" because you were on a cell phone?!
If that's "suspicious" then nearly everyone who's ever flown should be removed from a flight. Sounds like the GS paid-F pax wanted your seat and tried some despicable hardball to try to get it; they should IMHO lose their GS credentials over that, and even be banned from future flights on UA if that is indeed what happened. I'm curious, but obviously this is a nosy question (and thus don't answer if you're uncomfortable doing so): are you of an non-Caucasian race? US is infamous for overreacting to pax-reported "suspicious behavior" by non-white passengers (recently diverting a plane over an orthodox Jew's prayers!), but I hadn't heard much along those lines with regards to UA--but there's always a first time.
Also, the TSA wasn't exactly making you or anyone safer with their behavior, job or not, but that's fodder for another forum.
Jan 27, 2010, 3:22 pm
#9
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I'm curious, but obviously this is a nosy question (and thus don't answer if you're uncomfortable doing so): are you of an non-Caucasian race? US is infamous for overreacting to pax-reported "suspicious behavior" by non-white passengers (recently diverting a plane over an orthodox Jew's prayers!), but I hadn't heard much along those lines with regards to UA--but there's always a first time.
Jan 27, 2010, 3:22 pm
#10
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I think this had a good outcome. It amazes me how some people can act like this. Lord forbid someone looks a bit different and talks in a different language.
Jan 27, 2010, 3:24 pm
#11
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Yes, the captain can ask you to leave the plane, he is in charge of the plane. That said, from what you wrote this looks like it was handled about as well as could be handled.
We're at war, and some people get nervous if they hear someone speaking in another language from a middle eastern country. Once passengers said they were concerned, the FA had to act on it, and that involved the captain. He followed proper protocol in having you come off the plane to talk to you. This was to keep the conversation private, and away from other passengers so as hopefully not embarrass you. If the captain has any concern about safety, he has to follow it up, like I think you would want if it were someone else onboard folks were concerned with.
Having the TSA reclear you gave him the reassurance to calm the concerned FA or passengers. Those that were determined to be uncomfortable were told they were free to disembark and fly another flight. If they were just doing it to get you thrown off so they could get your seat, it failed miserably, which is good. The Captain stood up for you as you were put on the plane. IMO, the Captain did his job, and dealt with the matter in as good a manner as I think possible.
Suggesting that the airline take off all the other passengers so that you could fly if they were uncomfortable doesn't really make sense, from an economic standpoint at least. The airlines are there to make money.
While profiling by passengers isn't right in my opinion, in today's environment it does happen. It's a very tough call for airline crews because they have to balance everyone's concerns and rights.
Whether you're due any compensation from United is up to you and the airline, you can always ask. You sound like a nice gentleman with a good natured temper, so I hope that these passengers don't keep you from flying United in the future. Good luck to you.
AD
We're at war, and some people get nervous if they hear someone speaking in another language from a middle eastern country. Once passengers said they were concerned, the FA had to act on it, and that involved the captain. He followed proper protocol in having you come off the plane to talk to you. This was to keep the conversation private, and away from other passengers so as hopefully not embarrass you. If the captain has any concern about safety, he has to follow it up, like I think you would want if it were someone else onboard folks were concerned with.
Having the TSA reclear you gave him the reassurance to calm the concerned FA or passengers. Those that were determined to be uncomfortable were told they were free to disembark and fly another flight. If they were just doing it to get you thrown off so they could get your seat, it failed miserably, which is good. The Captain stood up for you as you were put on the plane. IMO, the Captain did his job, and dealt with the matter in as good a manner as I think possible.
Suggesting that the airline take off all the other passengers so that you could fly if they were uncomfortable doesn't really make sense, from an economic standpoint at least. The airlines are there to make money.
While profiling by passengers isn't right in my opinion, in today's environment it does happen. It's a very tough call for airline crews because they have to balance everyone's concerns and rights.
Whether you're due any compensation from United is up to you and the airline, you can always ask. You sound like a nice gentleman with a good natured temper, so I hope that these passengers don't keep you from flying United in the future. Good luck to you.
AD
Last edited by aluminumdriver; Jan 27, 2010 at 3:39 pm
Jan 27, 2010, 3:24 pm
#12
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The Captain is the final authority on the operation of his or her aircraft, but this does not give them carte blanche to trample on someone’s civil rights, as has been shown in several out of court settlements involving cases where the PAX committed the crime of “not looking like the rest of us”.
Jan 27, 2010, 3:25 pm
#13
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as has been answered, yes, a pilot can ask you to leave his plane, but this is just crazy. good for you for keeping your cool.
i've typed and deleted a bunch of stuff here. just...oy. good for you for keeping your cool.
i've typed and deleted a bunch of stuff here. just...oy. good for you for keeping your cool.
Jan 27, 2010, 3:27 pm
#14
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You did nothing wonrg. The three people who got off the plane are bigots.
You should definitely ask for compensation from UA when anything goes worng. In this case, I think $1,000 would be fair.
You should definitely ask for compensation from UA when anything goes worng. In this case, I think $1,000 would be fair.
Jan 27, 2010, 3:28 pm
#15
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I'm not sure this is necessarily UA's fault, or rather UA being forced to respond when a couple of jerks (i.e. read the GSer and his paid F friends) didn't manage to pull the seat switch that they wanted to.
I just find it odd that the parties that had a 'problem' with the OP were those that wanted to pull the seat switch - and kudos to the OP for holding his ground, Row 1 on the 75 is awful!
Absolutely terrible that the OP had to go through the experience, but truly SHAMEFUL of those that were likely trying to pull a fast one.
I just find it odd that the parties that had a 'problem' with the OP were those that wanted to pull the seat switch - and kudos to the OP for holding his ground, Row 1 on the 75 is awful!
Absolutely terrible that the OP had to go through the experience, but truly SHAMEFUL of those that were likely trying to pull a fast one.