Behavioral detection gone awry
Jan 11, 2010 | 5:51 am
#31
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 576
eyecue,
I respect what you're saying, but I have to say that this particular friend is particularly sane and unlikely to exaggerate. She is highly-educated, professional, and I've known her for 10 years.
Yes, there are always people who embellish their stories, or even fabricate them. This is not one of those cases.
I respect what you're saying, but I have to say that this particular friend is particularly sane and unlikely to exaggerate. She is highly-educated, professional, and I've known her for 10 years.
Yes, there are always people who embellish their stories, or even fabricate them. This is not one of those cases.
Jan 11, 2010 | 7:11 am
#32
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Upstate NY or FL or inbetween
Programs: US former CP Looking for a new airline to love me
Posts: 1,694
Jan 11, 2010 | 8:51 am
#33
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: boca raton, florida
Posts: 621
A good friend of mine just had a terrible experience at Detroit. She is a Midwesterner living on the East Coast, a highly-educated professional, attractive, usually well-dressed, and mild-mannered. She was visiting her parents and flying home. Nonstop, domestic flight. She did not have any problems with Secure Flight or watch lists.
She is a frequent flyer, and has taken the same trip many times. Her name, demeanor, accent, clothing, etc. are unmistakably American.
She is not prone to exaggeration, and doesn't usually complain about airport security. She happened to mention this to me because she knows that I fly a lot.
After uneventful check-in and ID inspection, she went to get in line for the x-ray and metal detector.
A BDO pulled her out of line, and she was taken to an interview room. She was told that her behavior "aroused suspicion" (perhaps not in those words.) The BDO and another agent conference called some TSA phone number. They asked her repeatedly about the nature of her trip, how often she'd lived at each address, the nature of her work, her father's birthdate, her mother's maiden name, and... my favorite... the last four digits of her FATHER's social security number. (She said, "How would I know that?")
She was eventually released and allowed to fly. I don't know if she had selectee screening, but I think that's probably likely.
I used to think that behavioral profiling made some sort of sense. But now I'm reconsidering. The best I can imagine is that the BDO's are new, newly trained, and want to test out their skills.
They may have actually picked her just because it would be less work: she's young, articulate, etc... so the background check would be simpler and they could act as if they're doing something. (In random screening, it's easier to pick the guy with a small bag and light clothing.)
She's not a complainer, and just wanted to get home. But I find this incident troubling. Of course I wasn't there, perhaps my friend had completely gone nuts and was acting erratically (I strongly doubt that.) There may have been a specific threat about young women traveling alone, as there was prior to Pan Am 103 (I doubt that as well... and there are a lot of women traveling alone through Detroit.)
I hope that this was a one-time incident.
She is a frequent flyer, and has taken the same trip many times. Her name, demeanor, accent, clothing, etc. are unmistakably American.
She is not prone to exaggeration, and doesn't usually complain about airport security. She happened to mention this to me because she knows that I fly a lot.
After uneventful check-in and ID inspection, she went to get in line for the x-ray and metal detector.
A BDO pulled her out of line, and she was taken to an interview room. She was told that her behavior "aroused suspicion" (perhaps not in those words.) The BDO and another agent conference called some TSA phone number. They asked her repeatedly about the nature of her trip, how often she'd lived at each address, the nature of her work, her father's birthdate, her mother's maiden name, and... my favorite... the last four digits of her FATHER's social security number. (She said, "How would I know that?")
She was eventually released and allowed to fly. I don't know if she had selectee screening, but I think that's probably likely.
I used to think that behavioral profiling made some sort of sense. But now I'm reconsidering. The best I can imagine is that the BDO's are new, newly trained, and want to test out their skills.
They may have actually picked her just because it would be less work: she's young, articulate, etc... so the background check would be simpler and they could act as if they're doing something. (In random screening, it's easier to pick the guy with a small bag and light clothing.)
She's not a complainer, and just wanted to get home. But I find this incident troubling. Of course I wasn't there, perhaps my friend had completely gone nuts and was acting erratically (I strongly doubt that.) There may have been a specific threat about young women traveling alone, as there was prior to Pan Am 103 (I doubt that as well... and there are a lot of women traveling alone through Detroit.)
I hope that this was a one-time incident.
I'll have to try harder I guess.
Jan 11, 2010 | 9:53 am
#34
Moderator: Coupon Connection & S.P.A.M
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Louisville, KY
Programs: Destination Unknown, TSA Disparager Diamond (LTDD)
Posts: 58,133
"Then I guess we're done, since you can't detain me or touch me. Did you want to call a police officer?"
Jan 11, 2010 | 9:59 am
#35
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 22,778
A good friend of mine just had a terrible experience at Detroit. She is a Midwesterner living on the East Coast, a highly-educated professional, attractive, usually well-dressed, and mild-mannered. She was visiting her parents and flying home. Nonstop, domestic flight. She did not have any problems with Secure Flight or watch lists.
She is a frequent flyer, and has taken the same trip many times. Her name, demeanor, accent, clothing, etc. are unmistakably American.
She is not prone to exaggeration, and doesn't usually complain about airport security. She happened to mention this to me because she knows that I fly a lot.
After uneventful check-in and ID inspection, she went to get in line for the x-ray and metal detector.
A BDO pulled her out of line, and she was taken to an interview room. She was told that her behavior "aroused suspicion" (perhaps not in those words.) The BDO and another agent conference called some TSA phone number. They asked her repeatedly about the nature of her trip, how often she'd lived at each address, the nature of her work, her father's birthdate, her mother's maiden name, and... my favorite... the last four digits of her FATHER's social security number. (She said, "How would I know that?")
She was eventually released and allowed to fly. I don't know if she had selectee screening, but I think that's probably likely.
I used to think that behavioral profiling made some sort of sense. But now I'm reconsidering. The best I can imagine is that the BDO's are new, newly trained, and want to test out their skills.
They may have actually picked her just because it would be less work: she's young, articulate, etc... so the background check would be simpler and they could act as if they're doing something. (In random screening, it's easier to pick the guy with a small bag and light clothing.)
She's not a complainer, and just wanted to get home. But I find this incident troubling. Of course I wasn't there, perhaps my friend had completely gone nuts and was acting erratically (I strongly doubt that.) There may have been a specific threat about young women traveling alone, as there was prior to Pan Am 103 (I doubt that as well... and there are a lot of women traveling alone through Detroit.)
I hope that this was a one-time incident.
She is a frequent flyer, and has taken the same trip many times. Her name, demeanor, accent, clothing, etc. are unmistakably American.
She is not prone to exaggeration, and doesn't usually complain about airport security. She happened to mention this to me because she knows that I fly a lot.
After uneventful check-in and ID inspection, she went to get in line for the x-ray and metal detector.
A BDO pulled her out of line, and she was taken to an interview room. She was told that her behavior "aroused suspicion" (perhaps not in those words.) The BDO and another agent conference called some TSA phone number. They asked her repeatedly about the nature of her trip, how often she'd lived at each address, the nature of her work, her father's birthdate, her mother's maiden name, and... my favorite... the last four digits of her FATHER's social security number. (She said, "How would I know that?")
She was eventually released and allowed to fly. I don't know if she had selectee screening, but I think that's probably likely.
I used to think that behavioral profiling made some sort of sense. But now I'm reconsidering. The best I can imagine is that the BDO's are new, newly trained, and want to test out their skills.
They may have actually picked her just because it would be less work: she's young, articulate, etc... so the background check would be simpler and they could act as if they're doing something. (In random screening, it's easier to pick the guy with a small bag and light clothing.)
She's not a complainer, and just wanted to get home. But I find this incident troubling. Of course I wasn't there, perhaps my friend had completely gone nuts and was acting erratically (I strongly doubt that.) There may have been a specific threat about young women traveling alone, as there was prior to Pan Am 103 (I doubt that as well... and there are a lot of women traveling alone through Detroit.)
I hope that this was a one-time incident.
When will people wake up to the shameful fraud perpetrated by our Govt and the TSA in the name of security and Behavioural Detection. BDO's are phony. The only people who appear suspicious. to them are those who appear to be of Middle Eastern origin to them.
That deduction may or maynot be correct. But there is a more serious problem where people are singled out because of their appearance.
Jan 11, 2010 | 10:01 am
#36
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 22,778
One-time for her hopefully, but I'm certain other passengers are subjected to this bull on a daily basis.
Behavioral profiling does not work in an airport termianl environment. At best, it may be useful as an adjunct to conducting interviews; for picking people out of a line up it is useless even for trained, competent practitioners. The TSA's "officers" don't come close to that definitiion.
Behavioral profiling does not work in an airport termianl environment. At best, it may be useful as an adjunct to conducting interviews; for picking people out of a line up it is useless even for trained, competent practitioners. The TSA's "officers" don't come close to that definitiion.
Jan 11, 2010 | 10:08 am
#37
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 22,778
Why are your anecdotes any more believable? Many don't believe anything you say. So where do we go from here. An employee being a supporter of an oppressive and stupid agency is nothing unusual and has very little credibility. The method described herein does not meet the MO of a BDO because they know nothing about BDO. Most, or enough of them They practice bigotry io the name of BDO. Why do you think the Nigerian slipped through?
Jan 11, 2010 | 10:12 am
#38
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 22,778
Besides being absolutely useless (how would they know if she's telling the truth or just making up answers?), a number of those questions are used for security purposes (banking websites, etc.). I would feel very uncomfortable sharing that kind of info with someone who already has my name and possibly my address.
The sad state of affairs is that security apparatus is run based on appearance. It's been more than eight years since 9/11, six since the invasion of Iraq, we have had two Presidential elections and a change iof guard at the White House. The Emperor is still not wearing any clothes.
Jan 11, 2010 | 10:13 am
#39
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 22,778
How come I'm never so lucky to get a BDO to try that with me? Best I ever got was lead screener Grieto in AUS last October who told me he was not going to release me until I told him my home phone number (he had already searched my then cleared wallet for my driver's license).
I'll have to try harder I guess.
I'll have to try harder I guess.
Jan 11, 2010 | 10:22 am
#40
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 22,778
That's not necessarily so. They called the airline's Station Manager threatening me to recommend to her that I not be allowed to get on their flight. Later on the staion manager upgraded us to F on the flight to Honolulu. The FSD did come down and reccomended that the involved screeners undergo further training in SOPs. The reason, I would not hand our passports over to them, when going through the security after customs and immigration. We had already shown our other Govt issued photo ID's, the DL.
Jan 11, 2010 | 1:32 pm
#45
In Memoriam
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Easton, CT, USA
Programs: ua prem exec, Former hilton diamond
Posts: 31,801
Ha, we have a travel buddy who is hot, and one time at JFK when we were going through one of the idiots said something like he'd like to get his hands on her for a secondary screening.
Dope said it outloud, she heard him (as did quite a few other people) and had more then a few things to say when he started approaching her for a secondary. Way more people heard her response to him.
This thread actually made me go and look up my father's SSN. I thought I knew it, but the number was not at all familiar to me, so it's probably the wife's that I know.
Weird little sidetrack, apparently my father's parents have the same SSN just one digit is different. I didn't know that either.
You can look up deceased people's ssn's ancestory website - which front ends the SSI datebase
http://ssdi.rootsweb.ancestry.com/
Dope said it outloud, she heard him (as did quite a few other people) and had more then a few things to say when he started approaching her for a secondary. Way more people heard her response to him.
This thread actually made me go and look up my father's SSN. I thought I knew it, but the number was not at all familiar to me, so it's probably the wife's that I know.
Weird little sidetrack, apparently my father's parents have the same SSN just one digit is different. I didn't know that either.
You can look up deceased people's ssn's ancestory website - which front ends the SSI datebase
http://ssdi.rootsweb.ancestry.com/