China Southern leaves SkyTeam, planning to join oneworld
Dec 22, 2019, 1:01 pm
#31
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Bus or ferry is probably easier. However, most ferry only goes to Shenzhen and Dongguan area, very few goes all the way beyond Nansha (and that's not even close to Guangzhou city centre).
The bullet train isn't really convenient for anyone who wants to use CAN or HKG as a transit point as you need to first transit at Kowloon West/Guangzhou South and then change to the Airport Express/2nd Line. For people living in Guangzhou to use HKG as a transit, they need to take the metro to Guangzhou South first and then take the bullet train to Kowloon West and transfer to Airport Express. An easier way would be to take the train from Guangzhou East and head directly to Hung Hom, but you will still need to make a transfer to Airport Express (via Austin/Kowloon).
The other way is even worse as you need to get to Guangzhou East or Guangzhou South via the train at Hung Hom or Kowloon West, and then take the 3rd line (2nd line and transfer to 3rd line if using Guangzhou South). Why did I say it's even worse? If you use Guangzhou South it's a big detour and if you use Guangzhou East good luck getting on the train with bags as the 3rd line is almost always packed.
The problem is never the transit passengers between CAN-HKG, it's the beyond transit passengers utilizing CAN or HKG to head to their destinations. Since CX/CZ hubs are so close to each other, if oneworld has both CZ and CX as the options to transit, many passengers that use CX now may head to CZ as CZ almost always have cheaper fares for transit passengers. I don't see any way the two airlines can work together (especially when one is heavily subsidized).
CAN-HKG use to be a route served with multiple daily flights thanks to no direct flight between Taiwan and China. Since cross strait flight commenced in 2008, the number of daily flights have dwindled to the point where China Southern completely axed the route. Cathay Dragon use to have 4 daily flights and now down to just two to serve connections (one in the morning and one in the evening). I believe CZ use to have around 4 daily flights as well (now none).
The other market I didn't mention is USA/EUR/AUS/NZL/SEA-CAN/HKG/PKX-CHINA DOMESTIC. If CZ joins oneworld I find KA having hard time to survive on those China routes with both CAN and PKX capturing all the domestic market.
The bullet train isn't really convenient for anyone who wants to use CAN or HKG as a transit point as you need to first transit at Kowloon West/Guangzhou South and then change to the Airport Express/2nd Line. For people living in Guangzhou to use HKG as a transit, they need to take the metro to Guangzhou South first and then take the bullet train to Kowloon West and transfer to Airport Express. An easier way would be to take the train from Guangzhou East and head directly to Hung Hom, but you will still need to make a transfer to Airport Express (via Austin/Kowloon).
The other way is even worse as you need to get to Guangzhou East or Guangzhou South via the train at Hung Hom or Kowloon West, and then take the 3rd line (2nd line and transfer to 3rd line if using Guangzhou South). Why did I say it's even worse? If you use Guangzhou South it's a big detour and if you use Guangzhou East good luck getting on the train with bags as the 3rd line is almost always packed.
The problem is never the transit passengers between CAN-HKG, it's the beyond transit passengers utilizing CAN or HKG to head to their destinations. Since CX/CZ hubs are so close to each other, if oneworld has both CZ and CX as the options to transit, many passengers that use CX now may head to CZ as CZ almost always have cheaper fares for transit passengers. I don't see any way the two airlines can work together (especially when one is heavily subsidized).
CAN-HKG use to be a route served with multiple daily flights thanks to no direct flight between Taiwan and China. Since cross strait flight commenced in 2008, the number of daily flights have dwindled to the point where China Southern completely axed the route. Cathay Dragon use to have 4 daily flights and now down to just two to serve connections (one in the morning and one in the evening). I believe CZ use to have around 4 daily flights as well (now none).
The other market I didn't mention is USA/EUR/AUS/NZL/SEA-CAN/HKG/PKX-CHINA DOMESTIC. If CZ joins oneworld I find KA having hard time to survive on those China routes with both CAN and PKX capturing all the domestic market.
Given what you have said, it would be really interesting to see how AA/BA can resolve this and allow their elites to earn EQMs/TPs from CZ flights.
Dec 22, 2019, 1:16 pm
#32
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: CAN, LAX, TPE
Programs: AA, AS, CI, DL, UA
Posts: 2,898
Thx for the post and my post was meant that if CAN was their final destination then perhaps it's not that big of a deal? Regardless, I understand your point and a lot of time is wasted. Also, taking the subway in Guangzhou can be extremely unpleasant during rush hour.
Given what you have said, it would be really interesting to see how AA/BA can resolve this and allow their elites to earn EQMs/TPs from CZ flights.
Given what you have said, it would be really interesting to see how AA/BA can resolve this and allow their elites to earn EQMs/TPs from CZ flights.
In my opinion most took CX/KA for transit from CAN is because the poor long haul coverage CZ has at CAN. If you have to transfer anyway, might as well do it at HKG. Currently CAN serves nonstop (daily in bold):
5x Adelaide
7x Amsterdam
14x Auckland
10x Brisbane
6x London LHR
10x Los Angeles
21x Melbourne
9x Moscow SVO
10x New York JFK
7x Paris CDG
5x Perth
4x San Francisco
5x Toronto
7x Vancouver
I believe there is a recent news where CX mentioned they would not block CZ, but not sure how it will actually translate.
Dec 22, 2019, 2:47 pm
#33
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Location: MEL CHC
Posts: 21,030
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guangz...tional_Airport
Adelaide, Altay,[28] Amsterdam, Anqing, Anshan, Auckland, Baku,[29] BangkokSuvarnabhumi, Baotou,[30] Beihai, BeijingCapital, Bijie, Brisbane, Busan, Cebu, Changbaishan, Changchun, Changde, Changsha, Changzhi, Changzhou, Chengdu, Chiang Mai, Chizhou, Chongqing, Christchurch, ColomboBandaranaike, Dali, Dalian, Daocheng, Daqing, Delhi, Denpasar/Bali, Dhaka, DubaiInternational, Enshi, Frankfurt, Fuyang, Fuzhou, Ganzhou, Guiyang, Haikou, Handan, Hangzhou, Hanoi, Harbin, Hefei, Ho Chi Minh City, Hohhot, Hotan,[31] Huangshan, Islamabad (begins 25 December 2019),[32] JakartaSoekarno-Hatta, Jiamusi, Jieyang, Jinan, Jinggangshan, Jining, Jixi, Karamay, Kashgar, Kathmandu, Kota Kinabalu, Kuala LumpurInternational, Kunming, Lahore,[33] Langkawi, Lanzhou, Lhasa, Lianyungang, Libo, Lijiang, Linfen, Liupanshui, LondonHeathrow, Longnan,[34] Los Angeles, Luoyang, Malé, Manila, Meixian, Melbourne, Mexico City1, Mianyang, MoscowSheremetyevo, Mudanjiang, NagoyaCentrair, NairobiJomo Kenyatta, Nanchang, Nanchong, Nanjing, Nanning, Nanyang, New YorkJFK, Nha Trang, Ningbo, Nur-Sultan,[35] Nyingchi, Ordos, OsakaKansai, ParisCharles de Gaulle, Penang, Perth, Phnom Penh, Phuket, Phu Quoc, Qingdao, Qiqihar, Rizhao, RomeFiumicino, San Francisco, Sanya, SeoulIncheon, ShanghaiHongqiao, ShanghaiPudong, Shenyang, Shijiazhuang, Siem Reap, Singapore, Sydney, TaipeiTaoyuan, Taiyuan, Tianjin, TokyoHaneda, TokyoNarita (resumes 10 January 2020),[36] Tongliao, Tongren, TorontoPearson, Turpan, Urumqi, Vancouver, Vienna,[37] Vientiane, Wenzhou, Wuhan, Wuxi, Xiamen, Xi'an, Xiangyang, Xichang, Xingyi, Xining, Xinzhou, Xuzhou, Yan'an, Yancheng, Yangon, Yangzhou, Yanji, Yantai, Yichang, Yichun (Heilongjiang), Yinchuan, Yiwu, Yulin, Zhangjiajie, Zhanjiang, Zhengzhou, ZunyiMaotai,[38] ZunyiXinzho
Last edited by Mwenenzi; Dec 22, 2019 at 2:57 pm
Dec 22, 2019, 7:16 pm
#34
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Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 42,048
CZ doesn't even fly CAN-HKG now so I don't know how can they offer very low J fares via CAN. They haven't served on this route for years. There are only 2 flights a day on the HKG-CAN route and it's being serviced by Cathay Dragon. CZ would be competing against CX/KA on the transit traffic via CAN and that would be the reason why CX/KA would not be happy if CZ entered oneworld.
Dec 22, 2019, 8:39 pm
#35
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CZ has a new flight to JFK from WUH, that's probably what you saw.
Dec 22, 2019, 8:57 pm
#36
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...s_destinations
China Southern Airlines JFK Guangzhou, Wuhan from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F...tional_Airport
Dec 22, 2019, 9:04 pm
#37
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Location: Shanghai
Posts: 42,048
Dec 23, 2019, 3:02 am
#38
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: CAN, LAX, TPE
Programs: AA, AS, CI, DL, UA
Posts: 2,898
CZ also flys CAN to SYD,CHC daily and many others
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guangz...tional_Airport
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guangz...tional_Airport
Updated list for CAN (bold for daily+):
5x Adelaide
7x Amsterdam
14x Auckland
10x Brisbane
7x Christchurch
10x Dubai
6x London LHR
10x Los Angeles
21x Melbourne
9x Moscow SVO
2x Nairobi
10x New York JFK
7x Paris CDG
5x Perth
2x Rome
4x San Francisco
21x Sydney
5x Toronto
7x Vancouver
...so if you are not traveling to these destinations you are probably better off transit via HKG:
Bahrain
Barcelona
Boston
Brussels
Chicago
Frankfurt
Johannesburg
Madrid
Manchester
Milan
Newark
Seattle
Tel Aviv
Washington
Zurich
...and if you prefer daily flights you have more options at HKG (whether through CX/KA or foreign carriers).
Last edited by coolfish1103; Dec 23, 2019 at 3:11 am
Dec 24, 2019, 10:36 pm
#39
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Location: Hong Kong, France
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Cathay Pacific has stated openly in 2016 that they will not object any suitable Chinese carrier to join oneworld. I believe it was from Ivan Chu during an industrial meeting interview, but I can no longer find that story. The words are written in the wall that Cathay is in no position to veto after the filed attempt by itself to recruit MU and CA.
There could be also a big difference between public statements at a conference like "We are open to..." and private actions "We will do everything to prevent...".
I know that CX is under many political influences. But the business case for not accepting CZ into OW today is strong.
Dec 25, 2019, 1:03 am
#40
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: CAN, LAX, TPE
Programs: AA, AS, CI, DL, UA
Posts: 2,898
China Southern released a statement on 12/24 announcing official leave of Skyteam from 2020/1/1.
China Southern will continue codeshare partnership and individual airline partnership with the following Skyteam Alliance partners.
Xiamen Airlines (obviously)
Air France
KLM
Delta
Korean Air
MEA
Czech
China Airlines
Vietnam Airlines
Air Europa
Aerolina Argentina
Alitalia
Aeroflot
Saudi Arabia Airlines
China Southern Sky Pearl members flying these airlines will continue to receive mileage crediting to China Southern Sky Pearl program. Redemption and elite services are also available as usual (but did not note if it has to be codeshared).
From 1/1/2020, Skyteam Sky Priority service will be replaced by China Southern CZ Priority. The airlines listed previously plus China Southern Sky Pearl Gold, and Silver members will continue to receive the usual benefits when flying China Southern, which includes:
Priority Check In
Priority Baggage
Priority Boarding
Lounge Access
Furthermore, China Southern has expanded partnership agreements such as codeshares and/or mileage programs with the following airlines:
American Airlines (3/30)
British Airways (12/17, FFP from 2020/6)
Finnair
Emirates
Qatar
Qantas
Japan Airlines
For more information, please visit China Southern website.
China Southern will continue codeshare partnership and individual airline partnership with the following Skyteam Alliance partners.
Xiamen Airlines (obviously)
Air France
KLM
Delta
Korean Air
MEA
Czech
China Airlines
Vietnam Airlines
Air Europa
Aerolina Argentina
Alitalia
Aeroflot
Saudi Arabia Airlines
China Southern Sky Pearl members flying these airlines will continue to receive mileage crediting to China Southern Sky Pearl program. Redemption and elite services are also available as usual (but did not note if it has to be codeshared).
From 1/1/2020, Skyteam Sky Priority service will be replaced by China Southern CZ Priority. The airlines listed previously plus China Southern Sky Pearl Gold, and Silver members will continue to receive the usual benefits when flying China Southern, which includes:
Priority Check In
Priority Baggage
Priority Boarding
Lounge Access
Furthermore, China Southern has expanded partnership agreements such as codeshares and/or mileage programs with the following airlines:
American Airlines (3/30)
British Airways (12/17, FFP from 2020/6)
Finnair
Emirates
Qatar
Qantas
Japan Airlines
For more information, please visit China Southern website.
Dec 25, 2019, 3:54 am
#41
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,477
Hi chongcao. Rumors and gossips abound about CX attitude towards CZ joining OW.
There could be also a big difference between public statements at a conference like "We are open to..." and private actions "We will do everything to prevent...".
I know that CX is under many political influences. But the business case for not accepting CZ into OW today is strong.
There could be also a big difference between public statements at a conference like "We are open to..." and private actions "We will do everything to prevent...".
I know that CX is under many political influences. But the business case for not accepting CZ into OW today is strong.
Second, even in the same alliance, it does not mean CX and CZ had to cooperate together. The classic case is between CX and AA. For a long time, AA flyers can only get any miles rewarded by flying CX if they purchase AA codeshare, or CX full fare economy and above. Same applied to Sri Lankan and Malaysian Airlines joined Oneworld, to this day, Qantas still have punitive measure for its own flyers to fly these two airlines, in order to protect its alliance with EK. There are ways to be non-cooperative even in the same alliance. If CX is not happy, it could simply put restrictions on FFP earnings.
Third, CX had nothing to loose. Without CZ in alliance, CZ is a competitor to CX any way. It means any passenger have a choice already made a choice between CX and CZ. In the mean time, CX already reached out to airlines like LH and NZ to firm its commitment to some market. With CZ in the same alliance, some passengers that never flew with CX may sample CX and decides its product is better and switch.
Fourth, CZ has a very weak intercontinental network. It is in no comparison to CX. Yes there are many daily service, yet its hub transfer rate and premium seats sales are way behind CX. CZ's A319 and some B737 only has one row of 4 business class seats. CX is a premium heavy legacy network airline. CZ is a bottom heavy without a clear hub nor strategy. Anyone who flew with CZ would know its ground handling and call centre is a disaster, very unprofessional. There is no reason for CX feel threatened by CZ. They are competing in a different market.
Fifth, CZ has a large customer base in China. It is the biggest airline in China. CX could have a potential to tap into this customer pool if it played right.
Sixth, Oneworld has very liberal policy regarding internal and external alliances, thanks to Qantas and Qatar. If CX and work with LH and NZ as both compete with CX in its Germany and New Zealand routes. I don't see why CX would see CZ as a threat that it could not work together with.
Side note 1, for those arguing CZ would eat into CX's market share, I would like to ask for the routes you listed, did CZ already have a high load factor? And did CX already had a high load factor's too? Both airlines had been into certain market for a long long time, they have their own market share that would not change much.
Side note 2, CZ is a Guangzhou based airline, but its cabin crew are not allowed to speak Cantonese by law, and their English is awfully bad and insufficient. For Cantonese speakers, CX is much better to feel like home, and for English speakers, CX is much better in communication.
Dec 25, 2019, 3:59 am
#42
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 2
China Southern released a statement on 12/24 announcing official leave of Skyteam from 2020/1/1.
China Southern will continue codeshare partnership and individual airline partnership with the following Skyteam Alliance partners.
Xiamen Airlines (obviously)
Air France
KLM
Delta
Korean Air
MEA
Czech
China Airlines
Vietnam Airlines
Air Europa
Aerolina Argentina
Alitalia
Aeroflot
Saudi Arabia Airlines
China Southern Sky Pearl members flying these airlines will continue to receive mileage crediting to China Southern Sky Pearl program. Redemption and elite services are also available as usual (but did not note if it has to be codeshared).
From 1/1/2020, Skyteam Sky Priority service will be replaced by China Southern CZ Priority. The airlines listed previously plus China Southern Sky Pearl Gold, and Silver members will continue to receive the usual benefits when flying China Southern, which includes:
Priority Check In
Priority Baggage
Priority Boarding
Lounge Access
Furthermore, China Southern has expanded partnership agreements such as codeshares and/or mileage programs with the following airlines:
American Airlines (3/30)
British Airways (12/17, FFP from 2020/6)
Finnair
Emirates
Qatar
Qantas
Japan Airlines
For more information, please visit China Southern website.
China Southern will continue codeshare partnership and individual airline partnership with the following Skyteam Alliance partners.
Xiamen Airlines (obviously)
Air France
KLM
Delta
Korean Air
MEA
Czech
China Airlines
Vietnam Airlines
Air Europa
Aerolina Argentina
Alitalia
Aeroflot
Saudi Arabia Airlines
China Southern Sky Pearl members flying these airlines will continue to receive mileage crediting to China Southern Sky Pearl program. Redemption and elite services are also available as usual (but did not note if it has to be codeshared).
From 1/1/2020, Skyteam Sky Priority service will be replaced by China Southern CZ Priority. The airlines listed previously plus China Southern Sky Pearl Gold, and Silver members will continue to receive the usual benefits when flying China Southern, which includes:
Priority Check In
Priority Baggage
Priority Boarding
Lounge Access
Furthermore, China Southern has expanded partnership agreements such as codeshares and/or mileage programs with the following airlines:
American Airlines (3/30)
British Airways (12/17, FFP from 2020/6)
Finnair
Emirates
Qatar
Qantas
Japan Airlines
For more information, please visit China Southern website.
For Sky Pearl members:
Priority check in, priority boarding, lounge access are available in flights marketed and operated by:
- Xiamen Air (obviously)
- China Airlines (including AE)
- Alitalia
- Delta
- Air France/KLM
- Czech Airlines
- Middle East Airlines
Certain benefits are available only on codeshare flights marketed by CZ and operated by:
- Korean Air (Only priority check in)
- Vietnam Airlines (Priority check in and boarding)
[Note that members does NOT have lounge access for this 2 airlines]
Sky Pearl members cannot not enjoy any benefit when travelling on Aeroflot, Saudia, Aerolíneas Argentinas, Air Europa, Aeromexico, Kenya Airways, China Eastern Airlines and Garuda Indonesia (though still can earn and redeem miles on SU, SV, AR and UX)
It seems that Sky Pearl members still suffer quite a bit as now they lose most of the Asian partners
(Especially for KE and VN where they can only enjoy limited benefits on codeshare flights)
Dec 25, 2019, 8:49 am
#43
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Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 42,048
First, CX loyal customer has no reason to fly a much inferior airline like China Southern. If it is SQ wants to join Oneworld, CX would fight tooth and nails to stop it happening. But there is no business case for CX's core customer to fly China Southern unless they are too price sensitive. In that case I doubt CX would really care.
Second, even in the same alliance, it does not mean CX and CZ had to cooperate together. The classic case is between CX and AA. For a long time, AA flyers can only get any miles rewarded by flying CX if they purchase AA codeshare, or CX full fare economy and above. Same applied to Sri Lankan and Malaysian Airlines joined Oneworld, to this day, Qantas still have punitive measure for its own flyers to fly these two airlines, in order to protect its alliance with EK. There are ways to be non-cooperative even in the same alliance. If CX is not happy, it could simply put restrictions on FFP earnings.
Third, CX had nothing to loose. Without CZ in alliance, CZ is a competitor to CX any way. It means any passenger have a choice already made a choice between CX and CZ. In the mean time, CX already reached out to airlines like LH and NZ to firm its commitment to some market. With CZ in the same alliance, some passengers that never flew with CX may sample CX and decides its product is better and switch.
Fourth, CZ has a very weak intercontinental network. It is in no comparison to CX. Yes there are many daily service, yet its hub transfer rate and premium seats sales are way behind CX. CZ's A319 and some B737 only has one row of 4 business class seats. CX is a premium heavy legacy network airline. CZ is a bottom heavy without a clear hub nor strategy. Anyone who flew with CZ would know its ground handling and call centre is a disaster, very unprofessional. There is no reason for CX feel threatened by CZ. They are competing in a different market.
Fifth, CZ has a large customer base in China. It is the biggest airline in China. CX could have a potential to tap into this customer pool if it played right.
Sixth, Oneworld has very liberal policy regarding internal and external alliances, thanks to Qantas and Qatar. If CX and work with LH and NZ as both compete with CX in its Germany and New Zealand routes. I don't see why CX would see CZ as a threat that it could not work together with.
Side note 1, for those arguing CZ would eat into CX's market share, I would like to ask for the routes you listed, did CZ already have a high load factor? And did CX already had a high load factor's too? Both airlines had been into certain market for a long long time, they have their own market share that would not change much.
Side note 2, CZ is a Guangzhou based airline, but its cabin crew are not allowed to speak Cantonese by law, and their English is awfully bad and insufficient. For Cantonese speakers, CX is much better to feel like home, and for English speakers, CX is much better in communication.
------------------------
The bottom line is that CX would/will only permit CZ to join OW if the upsides (none that I can think of) outweigh the downsides (many).
Dec 25, 2019, 12:14 pm
#44
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: CAN, LAX, TPE
Programs: AA, AS, CI, DL, UA
Posts: 2,898
CZ website now provides more detail on the agreements with different airlines
For Sky Pearl members:
Priority check in, priority boarding, lounge access are available in flights marketed and operated by:
- Xiamen Air (obviously)
- China Airlines (including AE)
- Alitalia
- Delta
- Air France/KLM
- Czech Airlines
- Middle East Airlines
Certain benefits are available only on codeshare flights marketed by CZ and operated by:
- Korean Air (Only priority check in)
- Vietnam Airlines (Priority check in and boarding)
[Note that members does NOT have lounge access for this 2 airlines]
Sky Pearl members cannot not enjoy any benefit when travelling on Aeroflot, Saudia, Aerolíneas Argentinas, Air Europa, Aeromexico, Kenya Airways, China Eastern Airlines and Garuda Indonesia (though still can earn and redeem miles on SU, SV, AR and UX)
It seems that Sky Pearl members still suffer quite a bit as now they lose most of the Asian partners
(Especially for KE and VN where they can only enjoy limited benefits on codeshare flights)
For Sky Pearl members:
Priority check in, priority boarding, lounge access are available in flights marketed and operated by:
- Xiamen Air (obviously)
- China Airlines (including AE)
- Alitalia
- Delta
- Air France/KLM
- Czech Airlines
- Middle East Airlines
Certain benefits are available only on codeshare flights marketed by CZ and operated by:
- Korean Air (Only priority check in)
- Vietnam Airlines (Priority check in and boarding)
[Note that members does NOT have lounge access for this 2 airlines]
Sky Pearl members cannot not enjoy any benefit when travelling on Aeroflot, Saudia, Aerolíneas Argentinas, Air Europa, Aeromexico, Kenya Airways, China Eastern Airlines and Garuda Indonesia (though still can earn and redeem miles on SU, SV, AR and UX)
It seems that Sky Pearl members still suffer quite a bit as now they lose most of the Asian partners
(Especially for KE and VN where they can only enjoy limited benefits on codeshare flights)
From 1/1/2020:
CZ Sky Pearl Gold
Priority Check In
Xiamen Airlines (+1 guest on same flight or on a MF code CZ operating flight)
China Airlines/Mandarin Airlines
Alitalia
Air France
KLM
Delta
Middle East Airlines
Czech Airlines
Vietnam Airlines (flight must be marketed as CZ codeshared flights)
Korean Air (flight must be marketed as CZ codeshared flights)
Priority Waitlist
Air France
KLM
Delta
Middle East Airlines
Czech Airlines
Priority Boarding
Xiamen Airlines
China Airlines/Mandarin Airlines
Alitalia
Vietnam Airlines (flight must be marketed as CZ codeshared flights)
Priority Baggage
Xiamen Airlines
China Airlines/Mandarin Airlines
Alitalia
Air France
KLM
Delta
Middle East Airlines
Czech Airlines
Vietnam Airlines (flight must be marketed as CZ codeshared flights)
Korean Air (flight must be marketed as CZ codeshared flights)
Additional Baggage Allowance
- 1 pc or 20 kg
Xiamen Airlines
China Airlines/Mandarin Airlines
Alitalia
Air France
KLM
Delta
Middle East Airlines
Czech Airlines
- 15 kg
Korean Air
Lounge Access (Self operated lounge only +1 guest)
Xiamen Airlines
China Airlines/Mandarin Airlines
Alitalia
Air France
KLM
Delta
Middle East Airlines
Czech Airlines
The following lounges are available for cross straight or domestic China flights as part of the Greater China Connection partnership:
Xiamen Airlines: XMN/FOC
China Airlines/Mandarin Airlines: TPE/KHH/HKG
Priority Standby (both code and operating airline must be the wait-listed airline)
Xiamen Airlines
China Airlines/Mandarin Airlines
Air France
KLM
Delta
Middle East Airlines
Czech Airlines
Preferred Seat Selection (both code and operating airline must be the same, not China Southern)
- on flights 6 hrs+
Xiamen Airlines
China Airlines/Mandarin Airlines
- all flights
Air France
KLM
Delta
Middle East Airlines
Czech Airlines
Confirmed Full Fare Y Seat on reservations made 24 hrs in advance for flights 6 hrs+ (both code and operating airline must be the confirming airline)
Xiamen Airlines
China Airlines/Mandarin Airlines
Air France
KLM
Delta
Middle East Airlines
Czech Airlines
CZ Sky Pearl Silver
Priority Check In
Xiamen Airlines
China Airlines/Mandarin Airlines
Alitalia
Air France
KLM
Delta
Middle East Airlines
Czech Airlines
Vietnam Airlines (flight must be marketed as CZ codeshared flights)
Korean Air (flight must be marketed as CZ codeshared flights)
Priority Waitlist
Air France
KLM
Delta
Middle East Airlines
Czech Airlines
Priority Boarding
Xiamen Airlines
China Airlines/Mandarin Airlines
Alitalia
Priority Baggage
Korean Air (flight must be marketed as CZ codeshared flights)
Additional Baggage Allowance
- 1 pc or 10 kg
Xiamen Airlines
China Airlines/Mandarin Airlines
Alitalia
Air France
KLM
Delta
Middle East Airlines
Czech Airlines
- 10 kg
Korean Air (flight must be marketed as CZ codeshared flights)
Lounge Access (Self operated lounge only on CZ codeshared flights)
Xiamen Airlines
China Airlines/Mandarin Airlines
The following lounges are available for cross straight or domestic China flights as part of the Greater China Connection partnership:
Xiamen Airlines: XMN/FOC
China Airlines/Mandarin Airlines: TPE/KHH/HKG
Priority Standby (both code and operating airline must be the wait-listed airline)
Xiamen Airlines
China Airlines/Mandarin Airlines
Air France
KLM
Delta
Middle East Airlines
Czech Airlines
Preferred Seat Selection (both code and operating airline must be the same, not China Southern)
- on flights 6 hrs+
Xiamen Airlines
China Airlines/Mandarin Airlines
- all flights
Air France
KLM
Delta
Middle East Airlines
Czech Airlines
Mileage Earning/Redemption
Vietnam Airlines
Korean Air
Air Europa
Xiamen Airlines
Air France
KLM
Delta
Middle East Airlines
Czech Airlines
China Airlines/Mandarin Airlines
Aerolineas Argentinas
Alitalia
Saudi Arabia Airlines
Aeroflot
Basically no partnership at all with Aeromexico, Garuda Indonesia, Kenya Airways and China Eastern. All redemption made prior to 1/1/2020 should be used within the validity date (12/31/2020 being the latest date available).
Dec 25, 2019, 12:25 pm
#45
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: DL, OZ, AC, AS, AA, BA, Hilton, Hyatt, Marriott, IHG
Posts: 19,903
First, CX loyal customer has no reason to fly a much inferior airline like China Southern. If it is SQ wants to join Oneworld, CX would fight tooth and nails to stop it happening. But there is no business case for CX's core customer to fly China Southern unless they are too price sensitive. In that case I doubt CX would really care.
Second, even in the same alliance, it does not mean CX and CZ had to cooperate together. The classic case is between CX and AA. For a long time, AA flyers can only get any miles rewarded by flying CX if they purchase AA codeshare, or CX full fare economy and above. Same applied to Sri Lankan and Malaysian Airlines joined Oneworld, to this day, Qantas still have punitive measure for its own flyers to fly these two airlines, in order to protect its alliance with EK. There are ways to be non-cooperative even in the same alliance. If CX is not happy, it could simply put restrictions on FFP earnings.
Third, CX had nothing to loose. Without CZ in alliance, CZ is a competitor to CX any way. It means any passenger have a choice already made a choice between CX and CZ. In the mean time, CX already reached out to airlines like LH and NZ to firm its commitment to some market. With CZ in the same alliance, some passengers that never flew with CX may sample CX and decides its product is better and switch.
Fourth, CZ has a very weak intercontinental network. It is in no comparison to CX. Yes there are many daily service, yet its hub transfer rate and premium seats sales are way behind CX. CZ's A319 and some B737 only has one row of 4 business class seats. CX is a premium heavy legacy network airline. CZ is a bottom heavy without a clear hub nor strategy. Anyone who flew with CZ would know its ground handling and call centre is a disaster, very unprofessional. There is no reason for CX feel threatened by CZ. They are competing in a different market.
Fifth, CZ has a large customer base in China. It is the biggest airline in China. CX could have a potential to tap into this customer pool if it played right.
Sixth, Oneworld has very liberal policy regarding internal and external alliances, thanks to Qantas and Qatar. If CX and work with LH and NZ as both compete with CX in its Germany and New Zealand routes. I don't see why CX would see CZ as a threat that it could not work together with.
Side note 1, for those arguing CZ would eat into CX's market share, I would like to ask for the routes you listed, did CZ already have a high load factor? And did CX already had a high load factor's too? Both airlines had been into certain market for a long long time, they have their own market share that would not change much.
Side note 2, CZ is a Guangzhou based airline, but its cabin crew are not allowed to speak Cantonese by law, and their English is awfully bad and insufficient. For Cantonese speakers, CX is much better to feel like home, and for English speakers, CX is much better in communication.
Second, even in the same alliance, it does not mean CX and CZ had to cooperate together. The classic case is between CX and AA. For a long time, AA flyers can only get any miles rewarded by flying CX if they purchase AA codeshare, or CX full fare economy and above. Same applied to Sri Lankan and Malaysian Airlines joined Oneworld, to this day, Qantas still have punitive measure for its own flyers to fly these two airlines, in order to protect its alliance with EK. There are ways to be non-cooperative even in the same alliance. If CX is not happy, it could simply put restrictions on FFP earnings.
Third, CX had nothing to loose. Without CZ in alliance, CZ is a competitor to CX any way. It means any passenger have a choice already made a choice between CX and CZ. In the mean time, CX already reached out to airlines like LH and NZ to firm its commitment to some market. With CZ in the same alliance, some passengers that never flew with CX may sample CX and decides its product is better and switch.
Fourth, CZ has a very weak intercontinental network. It is in no comparison to CX. Yes there are many daily service, yet its hub transfer rate and premium seats sales are way behind CX. CZ's A319 and some B737 only has one row of 4 business class seats. CX is a premium heavy legacy network airline. CZ is a bottom heavy without a clear hub nor strategy. Anyone who flew with CZ would know its ground handling and call centre is a disaster, very unprofessional. There is no reason for CX feel threatened by CZ. They are competing in a different market.
Fifth, CZ has a large customer base in China. It is the biggest airline in China. CX could have a potential to tap into this customer pool if it played right.
Sixth, Oneworld has very liberal policy regarding internal and external alliances, thanks to Qantas and Qatar. If CX and work with LH and NZ as both compete with CX in its Germany and New Zealand routes. I don't see why CX would see CZ as a threat that it could not work together with.
Side note 1, for those arguing CZ would eat into CX's market share, I would like to ask for the routes you listed, did CZ already have a high load factor? And did CX already had a high load factor's too? Both airlines had been into certain market for a long long time, they have their own market share that would not change much.
Side note 2, CZ is a Guangzhou based airline, but its cabin crew are not allowed to speak Cantonese by law, and their English is awfully bad and insufficient. For Cantonese speakers, CX is much better to feel like home, and for English speakers, CX is much better in communication.