Apr 16, 2016, 7:33 am
Last edit by: elitetraveler
JetSmarter is a membership program that allows members to fly on empty legs of private jets (JetDeals) and seats on scheduled private jet shuttles (JetShuttle).
JetSmarter - discussion and experiences
Jul 9, 2016, 8:21 am
#361
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 55
Joined recently, as one of these new 'social' members. Some interesting stats they told me:
- Over 5000 members ( over 4000 was quoted in a WSJ article in March, so that's a significant increase in a couple months time )
- Over 300 social members ( which isn't bad given that the launched the program what... four days ago? )
- I asked about the XO partnership ending in August ( as rumored here ) and was told it will be 'ongoing'. Of course, who really knows what that means...
Anybody know the story on why TMC left? Not enough revenue for the hassle of having a bunch of people trash their planes?
From what I heard from earlier conversations with folks there, they pay between $600 and $1000 for an empty leg to the operator. So figure $1000 * 15 TMC empty legs sold per day * 365 days = $5.5MM/year. That certainly seems like real money to me... and AFAIK TMC isn't selling these empty legs elsewhere.
- Over 5000 members ( over 4000 was quoted in a WSJ article in March, so that's a significant increase in a couple months time )
- Over 300 social members ( which isn't bad given that the launched the program what... four days ago? )
- I asked about the XO partnership ending in August ( as rumored here ) and was told it will be 'ongoing'. Of course, who really knows what that means...
Anybody know the story on why TMC left? Not enough revenue for the hassle of having a bunch of people trash their planes?
From what I heard from earlier conversations with folks there, they pay between $600 and $1000 for an empty leg to the operator. So figure $1000 * 15 TMC empty legs sold per day * 365 days = $5.5MM/year. That certainly seems like real money to me... and AFAIK TMC isn't selling these empty legs elsewhere.
Jul 9, 2016, 8:47 am
#362
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Denver • DEN-APA
Programs: AF Platinum, EK Gold, AA EXP, UA 1K, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 21,602
Jul 9, 2016, 9:26 am
#363
Suspended
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Paris, France
Programs: Over-entitled UA 1PMM; JetSmarter; HHonors Gold
Posts: 9,723
Can you help me understand... when you say "cancel", do you mean cancelling AFTER you sign the invoice they send? Or booking a flight on the app but never getting a confirmation and invoice?
Jul 9, 2016, 9:37 am
#364
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 55
I have had only 1 cancellation with XOJ...meaning cancelled before I signed the invoice. One time I had signed the invoice for a flight SAN - SJC - XOJ cancelled and JSM chartered a plane for me.
Jul 9, 2016, 9:51 am
#365
Suspended
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Paris, France
Programs: Over-entitled UA 1PMM; JetSmarter; HHonors Gold
Posts: 9,723
In fairness, isn't cancelling before the invoice is signed simply part of the nature of empty leg flights? Regardless of whether it is JetSmarter or the actual operators, they are not selling these at a profit, and so they keep things flexible until confirmation.
Jul 9, 2016, 11:01 am
#366
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 147
The JetSmarter press release went out on December 31st announcing the loss of TMC. They blamed it on “continuous breakdowns of their aircraft, operational cancellations, and crew strikes …” It read as a very angry press release. Also the empties disappeared immediately. There was no notice. This was my first indication JetSmarter was not focused on open and honest communication with members.
I’m sure there were multiple factors. On JetSmarter’s side, they wanted to go to the shared model and the offering with TMC didn’t fit that. TMC’s contract also allowed them to cancel the empty leg right up until the time of charter. The XOJet contract tried to bring more discipline with the five hour rule. But to blame it on aircraft breakdowns and crew strikes, when it really damaged their product at the time, suggests to me JetSmarter was reaching to justify it and not so much in control of the decision.
The December 31st release also announced the addition of JetLinx for empty legs. I don’t think they are any longer with the program either. Another original provider offered piston aircraft in the southeastern US. They are gone as well. I’ve seen other conversations on this board about JetSmarter changing the shuttle operators. So with this revolving door of providers it seems to me JetSmarter is not doing a good job of building strong partnerships with their aircraft providers.
As a side note: I flew a shuttle to Vegas recently and it had 7 people onboard. To drive from Newport Beach to Hawthorne (in Friday afternoon traffic), to ride this product just makes no sense to me. With SurfAir having a number of flights coming and going, the FBO was crowded and worse than hanging out at Javie’s or going to the Admirals Club at John Wayne. Onboard product (comfort) of 7 passengers on a King Air is no better than commercial. The only advantage was not having to line up at the gate to board—a process I’ve come to despise. But I don’t think I despise more than 90 minutes of Los Angeles traffic getting to Hawthorne …
I’m sure there were multiple factors. On JetSmarter’s side, they wanted to go to the shared model and the offering with TMC didn’t fit that. TMC’s contract also allowed them to cancel the empty leg right up until the time of charter. The XOJet contract tried to bring more discipline with the five hour rule. But to blame it on aircraft breakdowns and crew strikes, when it really damaged their product at the time, suggests to me JetSmarter was reaching to justify it and not so much in control of the decision.
The December 31st release also announced the addition of JetLinx for empty legs. I don’t think they are any longer with the program either. Another original provider offered piston aircraft in the southeastern US. They are gone as well. I’ve seen other conversations on this board about JetSmarter changing the shuttle operators. So with this revolving door of providers it seems to me JetSmarter is not doing a good job of building strong partnerships with their aircraft providers.
As a side note: I flew a shuttle to Vegas recently and it had 7 people onboard. To drive from Newport Beach to Hawthorne (in Friday afternoon traffic), to ride this product just makes no sense to me. With SurfAir having a number of flights coming and going, the FBO was crowded and worse than hanging out at Javie’s or going to the Admirals Club at John Wayne. Onboard product (comfort) of 7 passengers on a King Air is no better than commercial. The only advantage was not having to line up at the gate to board—a process I’ve come to despise. But I don’t think I despise more than 90 minutes of Los Angeles traffic getting to Hawthorne …
Jul 9, 2016, 11:27 am
#367
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 55
In the last two + years I have had 6 cancellations - 5 with TMC and 1 with XOJ.
Jul 9, 2016, 11:39 am
#368
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 469
As a side note: I flew a shuttle to Vegas recently and it had 7 people onboard. To drive from Newport Beach to Hawthorne (in Friday afternoon traffic), to ride this product just makes no sense to me. With SurfAir having a number of flights coming and going, the FBO was crowded and worse than hanging out at Javie’s or going to the Admirals Club at John Wayne. Onboard product (comfort) of 7 passengers on a King Air is no better than commercial. The only advantage was not having to line up at the gate to board—a process I’ve come to despise. But I don’t think I despise more than 90 minutes of Los Angeles traffic getting to Hawthorne …
My main issue is with the empty legs. These planes should not be going off fully loaded when someone has paid up to $40,000 for a membership. I find the offering of the "social" memberships borderline offensive.
As to your traffic situation, to be fair, you live in Newport Beach. Did you expect shuttles would be leaving from Orange County? I actually quite like the Hawthorne Airport because of valet parking at the FBO and Eureka, which is a pretty cool restaurant/bar. I would prefer all shuttles left from Van Nuys, which is slightly more convenient to me, but either fits what I would expect from a "Los Angeles" shuttle base.
Jul 9, 2016, 12:01 pm
#369
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 55
The JetSmarter press release went out on December 31st announcing the loss of TMC. They blamed it on “continuous breakdowns of their aircraft, operational cancellations, and crew strikes …” It read as a very angry press release. Also the empties disappeared immediately. There was no notice. This was my first indication JetSmarter was not focused on open and honest communication with members.
I’m sure there were multiple factors. On JetSmarter’s side, they wanted to go to the shared model and the offering with TMC didn’t fit that. TMC’s contract also allowed them to cancel the empty leg right up until the time of charter. The XOJet contract tried to bring more discipline with the five hour rule. But to blame it on aircraft breakdowns and crew strikes, when it really damaged their product at the time, suggests to me JetSmarter was reaching to justify it and not so much in control of the decision.
The December 31st release also announced the addition of JetLinx for empty legs. I don’t think they are any longer with the program either. Another original provider offered piston aircraft in the southeastern US. They are gone as well. I’ve seen other conversations on this board about JetSmarter changing the shuttle operators. So with this revolving door of providers it seems to me JetSmarter is not doing a good job of building strong partnerships with their aircraft providers.
As a side note: I flew a shuttle to Vegas recently and it had 7 people onboard. To drive from Newport Beach to Hawthorne (in Friday afternoon traffic), to ride this product just makes no sense to me. With SurfAir having a number of flights coming and going, the FBO was crowded and worse than hanging out at Javie’s or going to the Admirals Club at John Wayne. Onboard product (comfort) of 7 passengers on a King Air is no better than commercial. The only advantage was not having to line up at the gate to board—a process I’ve come to despise. But I don’t think I despise more than 90 minutes of Los Angeles traffic getting to Hawthorne …
I’m sure there were multiple factors. On JetSmarter’s side, they wanted to go to the shared model and the offering with TMC didn’t fit that. TMC’s contract also allowed them to cancel the empty leg right up until the time of charter. The XOJet contract tried to bring more discipline with the five hour rule. But to blame it on aircraft breakdowns and crew strikes, when it really damaged their product at the time, suggests to me JetSmarter was reaching to justify it and not so much in control of the decision.
The December 31st release also announced the addition of JetLinx for empty legs. I don’t think they are any longer with the program either. Another original provider offered piston aircraft in the southeastern US. They are gone as well. I’ve seen other conversations on this board about JetSmarter changing the shuttle operators. So with this revolving door of providers it seems to me JetSmarter is not doing a good job of building strong partnerships with their aircraft providers.
As a side note: I flew a shuttle to Vegas recently and it had 7 people onboard. To drive from Newport Beach to Hawthorne (in Friday afternoon traffic), to ride this product just makes no sense to me. With SurfAir having a number of flights coming and going, the FBO was crowded and worse than hanging out at Javie’s or going to the Admirals Club at John Wayne. Onboard product (comfort) of 7 passengers on a King Air is no better than commercial. The only advantage was not having to line up at the gate to board—a process I’ve come to despise. But I don’t think I despise more than 90 minutes of Los Angeles traffic getting to Hawthorne …
Jul 9, 2016, 1:02 pm
#370
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 147
Their southern California customer base, and most of their product offerings for the region, are certainly catered towards Los Angeles residents. So, no, I don't expect them to operate out of SNA. However, I would expect them to pick operating times that make it appealing for a larger geographic user base. I'm not an employee waiting for 5 pm to roll around so I can clock out and run to the airport for a 7:30 pm flight. If the plane could have left at 1 or 2 pm, middle of the day with no traffic to Hawthorne, it's a 40 minute drive for me. And that's roughly even to the time it takes me to leave my house, check in, and clear security at SNA. My point is simply shuttles don’t work for me. I’ve taken three shuttles during the course of my membership so I feel I have experienced it. And I think it’s a lousy product.
As far as the empty legs, I signed up in March 2015 so that’s what I signed up for as it was all that existed at the time. When they started making changes I sent an e-mail advocating membership tiers. SFO777 also talked about buying two memberships. My original membership was $7,000 for exclusive use of the plane. So $3,950 for 2-3 seats doesn’t seem that offensive. If I could buy a double or triple membership at $8,000 – 12,000 for 6 - 9 seats, essentially buying out the plane, we’re in the ball park. If I trusted the company and had confidence in them I’d have no issue with this. But I’m not paying $40,000 for empty legs when I can get a better product for less elsewhere.
As for JetLinx, I just looked again and you are correct they do have at least one listed tomorrow (The Columbus, IN to St. Louis, MO is theirs). It used to be all the JetLinx one-way flight specials that appear on JetLinx’s website would appear in JetSmarter app 24-36 hours in advance. This is no longer the case. But some obviously do as evidenced by this. Perhaps certain owners pulled their aircraft from the program. It was never much value for me out in California as their operations were limited, but I thought they’d completely left the program.
As far as the empty legs, I signed up in March 2015 so that’s what I signed up for as it was all that existed at the time. When they started making changes I sent an e-mail advocating membership tiers. SFO777 also talked about buying two memberships. My original membership was $7,000 for exclusive use of the plane. So $3,950 for 2-3 seats doesn’t seem that offensive. If I could buy a double or triple membership at $8,000 – 12,000 for 6 - 9 seats, essentially buying out the plane, we’re in the ball park. If I trusted the company and had confidence in them I’d have no issue with this. But I’m not paying $40,000 for empty legs when I can get a better product for less elsewhere.
As for JetLinx, I just looked again and you are correct they do have at least one listed tomorrow (The Columbus, IN to St. Louis, MO is theirs). It used to be all the JetLinx one-way flight specials that appear on JetLinx’s website would appear in JetSmarter app 24-36 hours in advance. This is no longer the case. But some obviously do as evidenced by this. Perhaps certain owners pulled their aircraft from the program. It was never much value for me out in California as their operations were limited, but I thought they’d completely left the program.
Jul 9, 2016, 1:47 pm
#371
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 469
As far as the empty legs, I signed up in March 2015 so that’s what I signed up for as it was all that existed at the time. When they started making changes I sent an e-mail advocating membership tiers. SFO777 also talked about buying two memberships. My original membership was $7,000 for exclusive use of the plane. So $3,950 for 2-3 seats doesn’t seem that offensive. If I could buy a double or triple membership at $8,000 – 12,000 for 6 - 9 seats, essentially buying out the plane, we’re in the ball park. If I trusted the company and had confidence in them I’d have no issue with this. But I’m not paying $40,000 for empty legs when I can get a better product for less elsewhere.
Also, have to disagree with you on the time of Friday Vegas shuttles. I think evening flights do cater to most users. No, maybe I'm not a 9-to-5er, but I do generally like to get some work done on Friday before heading out to Vegas, upon arrival at which, I'm pretty much MIA from business.
Jul 9, 2016, 9:51 pm
#375
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 55
Their southern California customer base, and most of their product offerings for the region, are certainly catered towards Los Angeles residents. So, no, I don't expect them to operate out of SNA. However, I would expect them to pick operating times that make it appealing for a larger geographic user base. I'm not an employee waiting for 5 pm to roll around so I can clock out and run to the airport for a 7:30 pm flight. If the plane could have left at 1 or 2 pm, middle of the day with no traffic to Hawthorne, it's a 40 minute drive for me. And that's roughly even to the time it takes me to leave my house, check in, and clear security at SNA. My point is simply shuttles don’t work for me. I’ve taken three shuttles during the course of my membership so I feel I have experienced it. And I think it’s a lousy product.
As far as the empty legs, I signed up in March 2015 so that’s what I signed up for as it was all that existed at the time. When they started making changes I sent an e-mail advocating membership tiers. SFO777 also talked about buying two memberships. My original membership was $7,000 for exclusive use of the plane. So $3,950 for 2-3 seats doesn’t seem that offensive. If I could buy a double or triple membership at $8,000 – 12,000 for 6 - 9 seats, essentially buying out the plane, we’re in the ball park. If I trusted the company and had confidence in them I’d have no issue with this. But I’m not paying $40,000 for empty legs when I can get a better product for less elsewhere.
As for JetLinx, I just looked again and you are correct they do have at least one listed tomorrow (The Columbus, IN to St. Louis, MO is theirs). It used to be all the JetLinx one-way flight specials that appear on JetLinx’s website would appear in JetSmarter app 24-36 hours in advance. This is no longer the case. But some obviously do as evidenced by this. Perhaps certain owners pulled their aircraft from the program. It was never much value for me out in California as their operations were limited, but I thought they’d completely left the program.
As far as the empty legs, I signed up in March 2015 so that’s what I signed up for as it was all that existed at the time. When they started making changes I sent an e-mail advocating membership tiers. SFO777 also talked about buying two memberships. My original membership was $7,000 for exclusive use of the plane. So $3,950 for 2-3 seats doesn’t seem that offensive. If I could buy a double or triple membership at $8,000 – 12,000 for 6 - 9 seats, essentially buying out the plane, we’re in the ball park. If I trusted the company and had confidence in them I’d have no issue with this. But I’m not paying $40,000 for empty legs when I can get a better product for less elsewhere.
As for JetLinx, I just looked again and you are correct they do have at least one listed tomorrow (The Columbus, IN to St. Louis, MO is theirs). It used to be all the JetLinx one-way flight specials that appear on JetLinx’s website would appear in JetSmarter app 24-36 hours in advance. This is no longer the case. But some obviously do as evidenced by this. Perhaps certain owners pulled their aircraft from the program. It was never much value for me out in California as their operations were limited, but I thought they’d completely left the program.