Gaucho100K

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As I understand it, FT has a long standing tradition of not allowing advertising and self-promotion of members' businesses.

Ive been seeing cases of members posting "advice" on certain fora that systematically includes links to wikitravel entries.

Of course, while its clear that these links are not direct commercial solicitations, and I give this Modus-Operandi kudos for being smart and well thought out... does this constitute proper FT etiquette...???

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Just to clarify, the wikitravel entries are filled with the commercial links.

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Have I posted this in the wrong forum.....?

cesco.g

Brief answer: NO! I hate my time to be wasted to such links, hence I hardly ever click on them!

Reminds me of those guys at Craigslist adding 25 car brand names to the bottom of their ad. Off the bat, I'd NEVER contact any them: Instant disqualification in my book!

RichardInSF

If the member concerned has cloven hooves and chews his or her cud, then yes, it's possibly kosher.

Sorry -- just couldn't resist.

Gaucho100K

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I love a good laugh, but, Im looking for a serious answer here. And just to clarify I mean from RP or someone else in charge of dictating policy on Flyertalk.

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Is this a personal opinion or are you posting this in some official FT capacity...?

Randy Petersen

Actually, your question comes at a good time, which is why i had to wait just a little before answering. As it so happens, a move to update the existing Signature policy involving commercial links is soon to be announced to members. As you might well understand, the enforcement of the current ‘no commercial links’ policy toward signatures, which falls to FT moderators, is inconsistent and problematic. I sincerely doubt any member could really classify what constitutes "commercial" vs. those members who really are helping others. Let's take a look, there are several popular Web sites like SeatExpert.com SeatGuru.com, ExpertFlyer.com and KVS and others that have some sort of commercial interests but yet all got their growth start on FlyerTalk. Many members, including some moderators charged with enforcing the existing policy, would prefer the opportunity to do business with fellow FT members, and would like to have the option of following a link in other members’ signatures to learn about those potential opportunities. Members with this view see this as an opportunity for a way of further strengthening the sense of community within FlyerTalk. And as i have noted, sorting out the community greater good as to what constitutes commercial links vs. simply using FT as a sales channel is a challenge. Anyway, a committee of volunteer Moderators will soon announce a more modern and updates approach to the current signature policy and I think it will answer your question.

But, excellent timing and thanks. Now, without sounding too commercial, what excellent Argentinean wines would you currently recommend? Fact is, many of us would like to do some business with you and trust your wine expertise as the updates policy will likely reflect.

The committee is currently hashing out all the details from changing the current TOS to a process to protect FT from really becoming a sales channel and i am totally against that sort of open environment.

Gaucho100K

Randy, thanks for the answer. I was not specifically talking about signature lines, but instead about embedding links (in the case I mention its actually an indirect link due to the use of WikiTravel)... but I do understand from your above post that this is also going to be addressed.

For the record, Im not in favor of or against anything, Im just trying to understand what it legit and what is not. Ive tried my best to keep my FT activity around promoting visits to Argentina, and while I do write a lot about wines (some of which I do sell at my business), I do my best to write about my specific business off boards, so as to keep things as Kosher** as possible.

In closing... if you are looking for wine tips from the right-side of the Andes, please email or PM me and I will be happy to provide you with some info...

(**) my apoligies to FTers of the Jewish Faith, I mean to use this expression I learned from my US friends in the most respectful manner. After all, this Roman Catholic was almost converted after a long term GF who taught me quite a bit of Yiddish....

Dovster

There is no need to apologize. We use the expression in exactly the same way that you do.

MikeMpls

Thanks for the update, Randy.

I think he had multiple inquiries on his mind. I PM'd RP a couple days ago about an older ORP thread that specifically concerned signatures.

I agree, I mostly want to know where the boundary is.

Gaucho100K

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Randy-- any estimate on the date the updatec TOS will be announced ?!

Randy Petersen

That I'm not sure of. I do know they have been diligent in meeting so far and already have established base language but are showing an interest in how the issues that you point out have any effect or future effect from these modifications. Really good set of members on the committee and I have confidence that they can make this a more manageable solution. More as i hear or see anything, but it is really their work and timetable we want to respect.

Gaucho100K

OK.. thanks for the answer.

Mrp Alert

I am not sure if Centaurs might be kosher after all due to their resemblance to humans rather than horses. They probably would have the wrong hooves. You stand a better chance of a mermaid being kosher, but its still a stretch.

Sorry -- just couldn't resist.

lin821

Randy, I realize this is an ongoing project but I want to make sure whether referral links would be part of the updated signature policy.

I had some discussion with some mods both publicly and privately. My understanding is that referral links are not allowed in signatures on FT. The inconsistency in mods when reinforcing signature links is indeed problematic that my most recent RBP on a signature referral link was not and hasn't been acted upon.

Besides, per FT rules, all referral bonuses belong to SPAM Forum. I don't think referral links should travel with any FTer's signature.

If FT does have a clearly stated policy to forbid referral links in signatures, I am sure it'll stop those who make it a habit to plug in personal referral links in their signature links. It'll also make it easier for our mod team to do their job.

Thanks!

lin821

Randy, sorry to bother you again but I don't think I ever get any clear answer from you and there is still inconsistency in MODs reinforcing referrals in signatures and posts (i.e. some allow and some don't). Correct me if I am wrong, the wording of current signature policy doesn't cover referrals, as far as I can tell.

First things first. I believe forum TOS shouldn't contradict with each other. Since conga and referrals are supposed to appear in SPAM Forum, this forum sticky specifies how to do conga in SPAM Forum:
There are quite a few conga threads in SPAM Forum and some are more active than others. Here are 3 conga examples:

1. Big Crumbs Conga:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/s-p-m...ller-fees.html

2. Mr. Rebates Conga:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/s-p-m...-up-bonus.html

3. Cashbaq Conga:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/s-p-m...baq-conga.html

Occasionally, there are few FTers who'd cut in line and post their referral links without following the above guideline. SPAM MOD and forum frequent have no problem working together to get things back to order and remove such posts/links. (Thanks to SPAM MODs! )

What you may not be aware is there are some FTers who either have referral links for said websites in their signatures, or post their referral links in posts outside SPAM Forum. This type of posting behavior, without discussing the inconsistency of moderation in taking out (or not) this type of posts, essentially is breaking the existing congalines in SPAM Forum. What bothers me most is the disrespect of TOS. I am not happy with condoning such behavior outside SPAM Forum either. Such referral links are for one's personal gain and nothing greater.

If such inconsistency and confusion lies in forum guidelines, please have those guidelines updated. If the wording, or lack of, in current signature policy is causing confusion about personal referral links, please consider to spell them out, so FTers and MODs know better what to post or edit. FWIW, I did RBP those "problem" posts/signatures to different forum MODs but some remain untouched. You can check out my RBP log to verify.

The bottom line is I don't think mixed signals are doing any good for FTers or MODs. Thanks for your time reviewing this issues.