The Peace Process on FlyerTalk
Jun 15, 2003 | 6:03 pm
#61
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Some of the folks trying to make themselves (and their cliques) out as marytrs just makes me laugh, as do the several attempts at (recent) revisionist history. I also chuckle at the notion that anyone who has several hundred or even thousand posts is a "loyal or valued longtime member of the community" and thus above all behavioral standards.
That said, I'm even more amused by the line of thinking that "well, these posts are okay like 99% of the time, and should be given leeway on the remaining 1%" or the constant attempts to define the FT TOS in terms of black an white.
It's not.
Trolling (which, IMO at least two participants in the current thread are guilty of on a widespread manner) is disruptive. There is no technical way in the current FT setup to solve this problem technically. Ergo, I believe that the serial trolls should be timed out (to start) and banned (to finish) until the community has a technical solution to a social problem that is very much within a grey area of the TOS. Does one yell "God sucks" in church and expect no response?
I also think that while non-insulting posts in "Welcome Back" threads might not be blatently against the FT TOS, they are clearly annoying and designed to sidetrack the thread and line of discussion. Ergo, Randy has made a judgement call and said "knock it off."
In essence, there has to be a common sense grey area. This provides ammunition for those trying to cause trouble or those who must have every explicit situation regulated so they don't abuse them (see the coupon connection fiasco a few months ago for an example of what I'm talking about). Eventually, it becomes a common sense thing.
I know that those (particularly those who want to continue to thrive in these grey areas to cause trouble) who think this way will flame me silly over this post: thus illustrating my point to a "T." Have at it.
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Saving the world, one clue at a time.
That said, I'm even more amused by the line of thinking that "well, these posts are okay like 99% of the time, and should be given leeway on the remaining 1%" or the constant attempts to define the FT TOS in terms of black an white.
It's not.
Trolling (which, IMO at least two participants in the current thread are guilty of on a widespread manner) is disruptive. There is no technical way in the current FT setup to solve this problem technically. Ergo, I believe that the serial trolls should be timed out (to start) and banned (to finish) until the community has a technical solution to a social problem that is very much within a grey area of the TOS. Does one yell "God sucks" in church and expect no response?
I also think that while non-insulting posts in "Welcome Back" threads might not be blatently against the FT TOS, they are clearly annoying and designed to sidetrack the thread and line of discussion. Ergo, Randy has made a judgement call and said "knock it off."
In essence, there has to be a common sense grey area. This provides ammunition for those trying to cause trouble or those who must have every explicit situation regulated so they don't abuse them (see the coupon connection fiasco a few months ago for an example of what I'm talking about). Eventually, it becomes a common sense thing.
I know that those (particularly those who want to continue to thrive in these grey areas to cause trouble) who think this way will flame me silly over this post: thus illustrating my point to a "T." Have at it.
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Saving the world, one clue at a time.
Jun 15, 2003 | 6:22 pm
#62
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by MapleLeaf:
And some of us left the Omni forum completely until it stopped. To an outsider it came across as stupid and annoying. The hijacking of threads caused me to stop posting.
It was very nice, and appreciated, when you guys stopped and life returned to normal, well as normal as Omni is.
Originally posted by robb:
and lots of people thought the COE war was funny, does that make it right?</font>
and lots of people thought the COE war was funny, does that make it right?</font>
It was very nice, and appreciated, when you guys stopped and life returned to normal, well as normal as Omni is.
p.s: ClueByFour=TROLL
Jun 15, 2003 | 7:15 pm
#63
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 13,344
No people here thought I used a multiple handle and used whyyzman. However the truth is that whyyzman and I are very good friends but not the same person. Check the IP's, the accounts, the email addresses etc. Yes I filled in whyyzman on the personalities at play in the Air Canada forum and suggested things he should post, but we are not the same person.
Sorry to burst your bubble.
Sorry to burst your bubble.
Jun 15, 2003 | 7:53 pm
#64
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by robb:
This thread has gone significantly off-topic, and I'd like to bring it back to the question: What are the specifics of the peace process in which we are to participate? </font>
This thread has gone significantly off-topic, and I'd like to bring it back to the question: What are the specifics of the peace process in which we are to participate? </font>
What don't you understand about the concept of wishing people well?------------------
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin
[This message has been edited by tazi (edited 06-15-2003).]
Jun 15, 2003 | 8:01 pm
#65
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There is no hope whatsoever of bringing this thread back on topic. It appears that every rivalry and feud under the sun has found its way way here.
Randy, I can only hope that you will post your answer to the original question before closing the thread.
Thanks
Randy, I can only hope that you will post your answer to the original question before closing the thread.
Thanks
Jun 15, 2003 | 8:05 pm
#66
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by CluelessByFar:
p.s: ClueByFour=TROLL</font>
p.s: ClueByFour=TROLL</font>
Isn't this thread itself ample reason as to why any thread that would discuss another member in any way other than a positive way would be a really bad idea? It's like friggin' dominos. One person posts their opinion and next thing you know, someone else who has a problem with that person posts a "yeah, you have no room to talk" type reply. If you don't want to welcome someone back, is it so hard just to pass that thread by? Should they and "Happy Birthday" threads have to be banned because a few people can't rise above the temptation to disagree with the sentiment?
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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin
Jun 15, 2003 | 8:53 pm
#67
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by CluelessByFar:
</font>
</font>
Jun 15, 2003 | 8:54 pm
#68
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And make people put a credit card on file to create an account 
Jun 15, 2003 | 9:46 pm
#69
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I'm not a "techie," so while I do know what an anonymizer proxy is, I do not understand how posting from one could possibly be banned, unless the anonymizer proxy has an identifiable IP?
As to credit cards, isn't that just a big administrative headache for what is a relatively minor problem (trolling)?
I think we all mostly behave ourselves relative to other IBB's, and even the anonymizer proxy postings are fairly polite in their own way... kind of funny, if you think about it...
As to credit cards, isn't that just a big administrative headache for what is a relatively minor problem (trolling)?
I think we all mostly behave ourselves relative to other IBB's, and even the anonymizer proxy postings are fairly polite in their own way... kind of funny, if you think about it...
Jun 16, 2003 | 3:49 am
#70
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Why is it so hard to keep peace on flyertalk?
I completely agree on techgirls comment that some users might get very tired of all those battles and campaigns here.
The only effect that can be reached with such kindergarten fights will be strict moderation and frequent member-bans. Who wants that?
So please demonstrate intelligence by just not jumping on the bandwagon on every possibility. Just ignore the one or other post to keep our forums peaceful. Is it so hard?
I completely agree on techgirls comment that some users might get very tired of all those battles and campaigns here.
The only effect that can be reached with such kindergarten fights will be strict moderation and frequent member-bans. Who wants that?
So please demonstrate intelligence by just not jumping on the bandwagon on every possibility. Just ignore the one or other post to keep our forums peaceful. Is it so hard?
Jun 16, 2003 | 5:20 am
#71
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by anonplz:
I do not understand how posting from one could possibly be banned, unless the anonymizer proxy has an identifiable IP?</font>
I do not understand how posting from one could possibly be banned, unless the anonymizer proxy has an identifiable IP?</font>
As far as a CC on file to sign up, I don't see how an automoted system would be an administrative hassle, and I bet it would eliminate hiding behing a fake userid...
[This message has been edited by skofarrell (edited 06-16-2003).]
Jun 16, 2003 | 5:40 am
#72
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by skofarrell:
As far as a CC on file to sign up, I don't see how an automoted system would be an administrative hassle, and I bet it would eliminate hiding behing a fake userid.</font>
As far as a CC on file to sign up, I don't see how an automoted system would be an administrative hassle, and I bet it would eliminate hiding behing a fake userid.</font>
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Jun 17, 2003 | 7:31 pm
#73
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ralfkrippner:
Why is it so hard to keep peace on flyertalk?</font>
Why is it so hard to keep peace on flyertalk?</font>
Blaming certain people does not seem to be the answer, as each "problem" has their supporters and detractors, and each supporter and detractor has their own supporters and detractors.
Pretty much you just have to accept the status quo, or move on when your own personal tolerance is exceeded.
Jun 17, 2003 | 8:33 pm
#74
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by robb:
Obviously, I stand by my interpretation of these excerpts as doc perceiving an organized conspiracy out to get him and a recalcitrance that indicates no intentions to change his behavior in any way shape or form.
I also point out that I have in no way violated doc's copyright on his words. It is fair use to provide my interpretation of an unsolicited message sent me with no indication that it is to remain private. As you're so fond of saying, I've done nothing against any rules, so you must be out to get me!
By the same token, I, of course, offer doc the right to reproduce my emails in this exchange in part or in whole here if we wishes to make any point. I ask only that if he publish them in an edited format, that he grant me the same right, so that I can publish the context surrounding any excerpt.
I found his seeking me out after I made it clear here that I saw no value in conducting a private email exchange to be a form of harassment, that quickly proved to be as unprodcutive as I had originally expected.
I still await an answer as to what peace process is in place here? I'm completely at a loss to understand it.</font>
Obviously, I stand by my interpretation of these excerpts as doc perceiving an organized conspiracy out to get him and a recalcitrance that indicates no intentions to change his behavior in any way shape or form.
I also point out that I have in no way violated doc's copyright on his words. It is fair use to provide my interpretation of an unsolicited message sent me with no indication that it is to remain private. As you're so fond of saying, I've done nothing against any rules, so you must be out to get me!
By the same token, I, of course, offer doc the right to reproduce my emails in this exchange in part or in whole here if we wishes to make any point. I ask only that if he publish them in an edited format, that he grant me the same right, so that I can publish the context surrounding any excerpt.
I found his seeking me out after I made it clear here that I saw no value in conducting a private email exchange to be a form of harassment, that quickly proved to be as unprodcutive as I had originally expected.
I still await an answer as to what peace process is in place here? I'm completely at a loss to understand it.</font>
Do we all understand that there are many different people here, with many different interpretations?
Do the interpretations of those with whom we disagree matter at all?
It seems not, sadly! Nor is logic a given here, apparently!
Yet surely, robb, you are absolutely correct, as always! You said so!
The quote/thread you initially excerpted herein, is not about me, as you'd claimed!
You do not understand Randys' comment, nor what he wants to see here!
I harassed you by politely emailing you, rather than posting creative, smart ... remarks about you, and/or your post(s)!
You did not post my private email info here, and I had no expectation that you would not post your interpretation of my private note, nor is it any violation of the TOS!
Though it was you who ordered me to stop emailing you back, I'm not interested in peacemaking!
You obviously do not want to stir up any trouble!
While you are simply wonderful, I am just plain rude!
What can I say? It's very clear. You said so, after all!
We seemingly not only must agree to disagree, but truly we live on different planets!
Have a great evening!
-Mark
Jun 19, 2003 | 4:05 pm
#75
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Well, doc, all I can say is that way, way, WAY back in FT, I posted a disagreement with a complaint you had with Northwest.
I didn't get flamed or insulted. You didn't reply at all, but that was OK because I didn't ask a question, just stated my belief on the issue.
I mean no insult, but I just don't see you as "All that bad."
...hey, here's one from me to you...
I didn't get flamed or insulted. You didn't reply at all, but that was OK because I didn't ask a question, just stated my belief on the issue.
I mean no insult, but I just don't see you as "All that bad."
...hey, here's one from me to you...