to be honest , i did not expect you to be man enough do draw a straight line but just hide behind lukewarm excuses.

you are just sad.

To be honest, I do not apologise when it is not warranted.

I am not one of those people who apologises *JUST* because others say he should do so. You obviously are one of those people who says sorry when told to do so.

You are just sad.

Dave

Further to this, what I said was not offensive IN MY CULTURE. It is used quite often IN MY CULTURE.

This is an international BB, so I have recognised that what I said was inappropriate, and have withdrawn the remark. But as for an apology, what I said was inoffensive IN MY CULTURE, I still regard it as inoffensive IN MY CULTURE, and henceforth, I see no reason to apologise for something I said which is inoffensive over here. I have recognised that others may be offended by withdrawing the comment.

If we have to go down the apology route everytime someone is offended, we will be at it non-stop. since something which is inoffensive to one group is offensive to thers, and vice-versa.

My attitude is that we have to live with the fact that this is an international BB, and we have to respect the fact that different cultures have diferent values and prejudices. If we transgress, then the comments need to be withdrawn. But an apology? I don't think so. An apology is warranted when you regret what you said, which I don't. I wished I had worded it differently, but I certainly don't regret saying it. In MY culture (you all want me to make allowances for YOUR cultures, how about making some allowances for mine????) it is an extremely mild form of insult, nothing to get too upset over.

I will NOT apologise for something which is in MY culture nothing more than a storm in a tea-cup.

Dave

thank god that YOUR CULTURE is not even remotely close to the culture of the australian people i have had the pleasure to know well.

thadocta, you might be a cool guy in real life...

...but...back off slowly from the keyboard and take a deep breath...perhaps when you will have calmed down a bit and read this thread again, you will realize that in this thread, you have made an ... out of yourself in so many ways that it's not even funny - in your culture, in my culture, in whatever culture.

I admire Patron for doing the right thing and taking the high road on this one.

"Little Hitler" is an appropriate phrase to apply to people who advocate killing others (or in fact do it) because of their race or religion. In my view you could reasonably call Idi Amin or Saddam Hussein a "little Hitler."

"Little Hitler" is not an appropriate phrase to apply to people whose editing styles you don't like because it doesn't have anything to do with what you're trying to complain about. Try "little Frank Pixley" (one of Ambrose Bierce's editors) instead.

The reason that "little Hitler" is offensive to me is that it trivializes what the real Hitler did and wanted to do, which included wanting to gather up and kill Law Lord Sr.'s cousins. Save the big insults for big offenses.

sunseeker ..... please let me hasten to add I am a third generation Australian and I suggested an edit a lonnnnnnng time ago.

Please do NOT assume all Australians agree with the comments. Randy is the No #1 umpire here and he edited the comments out - as thadocta did not, and that is the umpire's final decision.

Let me make this pertinent comment. If a member of Parliament in this country - State of Federal or Senate called another Member - or any other person - a 'Little Xxxxxx' (for whatever reason) in the house they would be IMO forced to withdraw the comment by the Speaker .... and also forced most likely to apologise. AND suffer a good deal of poor media as a result.

I do not believe "OUR CULTURE" regards it as a polite term of phrase in public, especially when referring to a person born in the same country as Xxxxxx.

Australia has a very rich and cherished vocabulary of slang and "endearing terms".

In a pub, or over a few beers around a barbecue with friends - many phrases and terms are used with impunity and acceptance that may shock someone from Boston or Cambridge or Dusseldorf.

But they are * * NOT * * regarded as good form or polite to use in a newspaper for instance about a specific individual ... or in a "public gathering" - which indeed an International Bulletin Board like FlyerTalk surely is. Especially when we have a large number fo Germans and Austrians in our midst.

I guess an interesting test would be for thadocta to walk up to a group of NSW policemen and accuse one of them of being a "Little Xxxxxx". That might be a interesting test of whether it would acceptable and appreciated in THEIR CULTURE.

I have had the pleasure to meet both thadocta and Patron at different times recently over a few drinks. I do hope they shake hands and have a beer when Patron is next in town to hopefully amicably put this behind them.

Totally off the mark. Particularly when as recently as this year we had a member of Parliament call the Prime Minister an "Arse Licker". No demand for an apology from the speaker, no demand from the public, little more than a few giggles from the media.

No wonder the likes of Bin Laden think Westerners are weak and soft - they need only to look at this forum and see all of the blouses getting their knickers in a knot over NOTHING.

Sticks and stones, boys and girls, or have they stopped teaching that in the new age of victimhood, where everyone is offended by everything, and entitled to compensation as a result?

Really, why should any of you give a rat's arse about being labelled a "Little Hitler"? I'm as Jewish as Moshe Dyan (and as one-eyed, I might ad), but don't bat an eyelid when I get labled a Nazi. The irony doesn't escape me, but I won't clutch my teddy and weep in bed all night over it.

Get some bloody perspective, people. If the Captain of your flight tomorrow announced that all 4 engines were out and you were all about to die, would thadocta's post on flyertalk be the last thing you considered in your final moments?

Not likely. Build a bridge, get over it.

Offense should be freely given to those who are weak and foolish enough to take it.

The remark about cops is completely off the mark too. Magistrates in NSW have thrown "Offensive Language" charges out of court when people have told the cops where to go in no uncertain terms. I'm sure that NSW Highway Patrol officers are called "Little Hitlers", and much worse, every day of the week. Big deal. If they can live with it, why can't you?

ANOTHER slow day at the office, OZSTAMPS?


[This message has been edited by shillard (edited 05-09-2003).]

I can't agree. Beeing called this way (and there can only be very few reason to do so rightfully, but certainly nothing that has to do with Patron) is VERY VERY offensive in my understanding and quite sure in Patron's, too.

The reasons for that are quite clear, I guess.

And as this is expressed here the absolute minimum that would have been expected is some kind of apology towards Patron.

That you are not able to do so disqualifies you in every view (at least in my opinion).

And yes, for me this IS a big issue and not just some minor case.

The FT "Guideline and rules" encourage people to discuss opinions/ideas by other people - and not the people itself. Not even a "soft attack" is allowed. The intension of the topic was not a discussion of Patron and attacking him personally. This thread clearly shows that the guidelines are very well chosen and try to prevent people from attacking one another. If there are (soft) attacks, the discussion quickly goes off-topic. We left the topic since a long time. We should go back to the topic/content and learn.

From FT "Guidelines and rules"
Personal attacks

We invite and encourage a healthy exchange of opinions. If you disagree with an opinion or idea expressed by another member, by all means, challenge the opinion or idea - not the person. Personal attacks on individuals, insults and "flaming" will not be tolerated and will be removed. You may challenge others' points of view and opinions, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully.

Do not retaliate or respond in any way to a personal attack that you perceive to be directed at yourself or another FlyerTalk member. All to often, when an initial attack is levied, others join the fray and instead of becoming part of the solution, they become part of the problem. If you feel that you have been the recipient of a personal attack, contact a TalkAssist volunteer immediately.

Also, please keep in mind that shouting online (typing in all capital letters LIKE THIS) is considered by some to be rude and difficult to read.

I applaud Ozstamps for his post. shillard's rhetoric fails to impress.

My second and last attempt:

From FT "Guidelines and rules"
Personal attacks
We invite and encourage a healthy exchange of opinions. If you disagree with an opinion or idea expressed by another member, by all means, challenge the opinion or idea - not the person. Personal attacks on individuals, insults and "flaming" will not be tolerated and will be removed. You may challenge others' points of view and opinions, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully.

Do not retaliate or respond in any way to a personal attack that you perceive to be directed at yourself or another FlyerTalk member. All to often, when an initial attack is levied, others join the fray and instead of becoming part of the solution, they become part of the problem. If you feel that you have been the recipient of a personal attack, contact a TalkAssist volunteer immediately.

Also, please keep in mind that shouting online (typing in all capital letters LIKE THIS) is considered by some to be rude and difficult to read.

I was referring to the content of their posts .

shillard .... I disagree totally with virtually everything you have posted on this page, but I agree you have the right to post what you wish as long as they comply with the TOS.

And I do not make that call.