If on a RTW you transit on a continent does it count as a visit?
Nov 21, 2008 | 3:50 am
#16
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I think, this is not 100% correct. DEL-ORD allows you to bypass Europe. You can do North America - India - Australia - North America as a DONE3 without touching and paying for Europe.
Nov 21, 2008 | 7:59 am
#17
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Your idea about a 3-continent fare that includes the SWP is incorrect however. Here's the rule:
(m) Nonstop transatlanticTravel on AA between DEL and ORD is permitted.
For travel ex South America/South West Pacific – when this service is utilised a minimum of a 4
Continent Fare must be charged.
For travel ex North America/Asia – when this service is utilised a minimum of a 3 continent fare must
be charged.
For travel ex South America/South West Pacific – when this service is utilised a minimum of a 4
Continent Fare must be charged.
For travel ex North America/Asia – when this service is utilised a minimum of a 3 continent fare must
be charged.
Nov 21, 2008 | 9:31 am
#18
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It is the same as wanting to visit both Europe and Australia on the same OWE.You can't do this on a xONE3. Even though you could fly,e.g. "nonstop" LHR-SYD on QF 32 and no Asian airport code will ever occur in your itinerary, you still have to pay for Asia as a continent as they have to stop for fuel in SIN (and because this is the rule: "Travel between Europe and SWP is considered travelling through three continents Europe-Asia-SWP".)
Sorry,if this does not exactly relate to your question,but just to give another example.
Sorry,if this does not exactly relate to your question,but just to give another example.
Nov 21, 2008 | 3:26 pm
#19
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Thank you for the advice.
BA here is denying triangular fares exist to fly JNB-HKG-SYD-JNB despite the One World website using that routing as an example.
For a Triangular ticket in J/F can I fly JNB-PLZ-JNB-HKG-SYD-MEL-SYD-JNB?
My travel agent is saying I can fly to PE but can't return to JNB then fly to HKG. I said I can do 4 domestic sectors in SA first. Can I follow the routing I listed?
BA here is denying triangular fares exist to fly JNB-HKG-SYD-JNB despite the One World website using that routing as an example.
For a Triangular ticket in J/F can I fly JNB-PLZ-JNB-HKG-SYD-MEL-SYD-JNB?
My travel agent is saying I can fly to PE but can't return to JNB then fly to HKG. I said I can do 4 domestic sectors in SA first. Can I follow the routing I listed?
Nov 21, 2008 | 3:43 pm
#20
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Thank you for the advice.
BA here is denying triangular fares exist to fly JNB-HKG-SYD-JNB despite the One World website using that routing as an example.
For a Triangular ticket in J/F can I fly JNB-PLZ-JNB-HKG-SYD-MEL-SYD-JNB?
My travel agent is saying I can fly to PE but can't return to JNB then fly to HKG. I said I can do 4 domestic sectors in SA first. Can I follow the routing I listed?
BA here is denying triangular fares exist to fly JNB-HKG-SYD-JNB despite the One World website using that routing as an example.
For a Triangular ticket in J/F can I fly JNB-PLZ-JNB-HKG-SYD-MEL-SYD-JNB?
My travel agent is saying I can fly to PE but can't return to JNB then fly to HKG. I said I can do 4 domestic sectors in SA first. Can I follow the routing I listed?
C. Travel may originate at any point for which fares are published and must terminate at the same point, except
that Origin-Destination surface segments are permitted as follows:
(a) within country of origin
(b) within Africa
D. Travel may not be via the point of origin...
that Origin-Destination surface segments are permitted as follows:
(a) within country of origin
(b) within Africa
D. Travel may not be via the point of origin...
Nov 21, 2008 | 6:07 pm
#21
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I assume you're referring to the Circle Trip Explorer, which definitely allows SA-HKG-Oz-SA. The issue that you're confronting, however, is this rule: thus going JNB-PLZ-JNB-HKG etc. is no go. Start at PLZ or CPT or DUR, etc. and you'll have an easier time of it.
So that rules that out. I don't suppose doing a JNB-CPT-PLZ-JNB works?
However what about JNB-HKG-SYD-MEL-SYD-JNB does THIS itinerary work?
Nov 21, 2008 | 6:21 pm
#22
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I live in JNB and have a holiday place near PLZ and I am going there before OZ so I thought I could put that ticket for Christmas into this ticket.
So that rules that out. I don't suppose doing a JNB-CPT-PLZ-JNB works? Nope.
However what about JNB-HKG-SYD-MEL-SYD-JNB does THIS itinerary work?
So that rules that out. I don't suppose doing a JNB-CPT-PLZ-JNB works? Nope.
However what about JNB-HKG-SYD-MEL-SYD-JNB does THIS itinerary work?
Or fly one way to PLZ and originate there. You don't have to end where you started.
Nov 21, 2008 | 6:26 pm
#23
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Nov 22, 2008 | 4:30 am
#24
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You're partly right - you don't touch Europe but you must pay for it, as ORD-DEL is regarded as transatlantic. OW won't budge on the required progression between Regions I-II-III and two transoceanic sectors.
Your idea about a 3-continent fare that includes the SWP is incorrect however. Here's the rule:
Every attempt that I'm aware of to include Africa, SWP or S. America in a 3-continent RTW has been denied by the issuing airline.
Your idea about a 3-continent fare that includes the SWP is incorrect however. Here's the rule:
Every attempt that I'm aware of to include Africa, SWP or S. America in a 3-continent RTW has been denied by the issuing airline.
It says for travel ex NA a minimum of 3 continents must be charged. So ORD-DEL-SYD-LAX would cover three continents and has the required two ocean crossings.
So it should be three continents. However, the issue might be something different:
Code:
Travel must be in a continuous forward direction between TC1 - TC2 - TC3.
Nov 22, 2008 | 9:41 am
#25
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I am surprised about this. My interpretation of the rule is that it prevents the existence of a xONE2 which would otherwise be possible.
It says for travel ex NA a minimum of 3 continents must be charged. So ORD-DEL-SYD-LAX would cover three continents and has the required two ocean crossings.
So it should be three continents. However, the issue might be something different:
Obviously the airlines interpret this in a way that you actually have to cover (=pay for) all three regions. My reading of this is that you only need to fly in a continuous forward direction even when you only fly over one region.
It says for travel ex NA a minimum of 3 continents must be charged. So ORD-DEL-SYD-LAX would cover three continents and has the required two ocean crossings.
So it should be three continents. However, the issue might be something different:
Code:
Travel must be in a continuous forward direction between TC1 - TC2 - TC3.
To my knowledge the various airlines' tariff departments have interpreted that the "travel ex-SA/SWP/Africa" rule also means that travel VIA those places, not just originating, requires a minimum 4-continent ticket, with one of the continents being Europe as the placeholder for TC2.
Of course you're free to argue the point with the airlines; if you succeed I believe you'd be the first.
Nov 22, 2008 | 11:37 am
#26
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Nov 22, 2008 | 2:48 pm
#27
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We were talking about a DONE3 ex North America which incorporates the SWP. Not an DONE3 ex SWP which is specifically not allowed in the rules and as you said, this fare doesn't even exist.
Nov 22, 2008 | 2:52 pm
#28
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To my knowledge the various airlines' tariff departments have interpreted that the "travel ex-SA/SWP/Africa" rule also means that travel VIA those places, not just originating, requires a minimum 4-continent ticket, with one of the continents being Europe as the placeholder for TC2.
Of course you're free to argue the point with the airlines; if you succeed I believe you'd be the first.
Of course you're free to argue the point with the airlines; if you succeed I believe you'd be the first.
I won't be the one testing it as I always originate here in Australia. But if someone tries I would advice them to ticket at a small outstation and not at the AA RTW desk.
Nov 22, 2008 | 3:29 pm
#29
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I believe it realtes to how the oneworld airlines divvy up the fares.
The lions share goes to those carriers doing the intercontinental flights and (I believe) contractually there must be at least three of these between TC1/TC2/TC3.
In this case to have the ORD/DEL flight skipping TC2 would invalidate the contractual arrangements - hence the 'special' "Hey look down - there is Europe" rule.
The lions share goes to those carriers doing the intercontinental flights and (I believe) contractually there must be at least three of these between TC1/TC2/TC3.
In this case to have the ORD/DEL flight skipping TC2 would invalidate the contractual arrangements - hence the 'special' "Hey look down - there is Europe" rule.
Nov 23, 2008 | 11:42 am
#30
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